San Diego is a BIG LIE!

Thunderstruck

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DipChit said:
i enjoy reading your thoughts on your team Thunder, but it is making me snicker a lil cause it has the tone of a fan of a totally established team thats proved something for a few years running. Like if you were a Cowboys fan back in '94 talking about why you might lose an opener (or any particular game) because you have to simply admit the team isnt totally perfect.

You guys had a great year last year. But so far thats it.. one year. You could just as easily drop back to .500 as not. The league is riddled with teams that have done that over the last 6 or 7 years. Including many previous year SB participants.

Anyway, good luck! :)

Does being a fan of a team that has won superbowls make one a more knowledgeable fan of the game? In my experience, it makes no difference whatsoever. I've talked to Cardinal and Lions fans who know every bit as much about the game as Cowboys, Steelers, and 49er fans. It seems like what you're suggesting is "you don't know a good team when you see one, because you're a Charger fan." But I've been following the sport for going-on thirty years now. It's not like I don't have plenty of experience gauging bad teams, and the occasional winner. I can tell you honestly that this team is the best team, talentwise, we have ever had, and that includes the Fouts/Winslow/Joiner teams. I'll defend my team where I think people have misconceptions, but I've also pointed out some of our weaknesses. No team is perfect.
 

DipChit

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Oh I wasnt taking a shot at you Thunder.. And it didnt have anything to do with actually winning Super Bowls or not. I could've said the same thing about the Bills, even tho they were "runner ups" every year.

Or I could've even been talking about the Eagles over the last few years. Again they're an established team thats proven they were gonna be a double digit winner year after year as of late. But for every team like that nowadays you have several teams that are up one year and down the next. Obviously they must have been pretty darn good at least for the one particular year they were up. I imagine most of their fans (truly knowledgeable ones or otherwise) didnt think they'd drop down to .500 or worse the next year.

Theres any number of reasons why so many fell back down the next year.

If you're convinced already now that Brees is going to be your guy, and play at a really high lever for the next 5 years, so be it. Obviously you're gonna *need* that if you hope to be there at the end. We DO know that LT is the real deal (but so was Barry Sanders).

You're happy with your teams overall make up... and you can articulate that fact very well. Thats cool, but I'm just sayin as an otherwise independent observer, they're "just another team" (although not the dregs of the NFL) yet for the time being.

In other words maybe what I'm simply saying is.. one year is a fluke, two years is a trend.. so we'll see.
 

kmd24

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Thunderstruck said:
You seem to think that maintaining a high plus-turnover-ratio is somehow a weakness...

That is an inaccurate assessment of my posts. Also, I find it quite comical that you think SD can "maintain" a high turnover margin given their recent history.

The whole point of this thread is that the 12-4 results SD posted in 2004 may not be indicative of the true talent of the team. I believe I have rather clearly pointed out why *I* believe that SD's results in 2004 were somewhat better than the talent on the team justifies.

I simply believe that SD was particularly fortuitous in 2003 in the turnover department. There were only 2 games in which SD lost the turnover battle. SD lost both of those games. There were three games in which SD had a rather significant turnover edge and barely won.

The recent history of this team doesn't support the idea that it will routinely post significantly positive turnover margins. Perhaps 2004 was a turning point. More likely they will regress to the mean and post a slightly positive or slightly negative turnover margin for the 2005 season.

Too many Cowboys fans look at 12-4 and 6-10 and write the game off. There is no reason the Cowboys cannot win this game.

Thunderstruck said:
I can also say that if the Chargers win the turnover battle, they will win the game. What does it mean? Might as well say if you win the touchdown battle you'll win the game. It's meaningless.

I believe that the absence of Gates and the weak SD pass rush tips the scales in the favor of Dallas. However, the one area that SD was so much better than the Cowboys in 2004 is protecting the ball. I believe that if Dallas can avoid giving SD a short field, Dallas will win the game. That is why I believe turnovers are so important in this game.
 

Fear D-Ware

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Doomsday101 said:
I did not say SD was the greatest but take them lightly and they will kick your ars. People can rationalize it all they want but bad teams do not win 12 games. You want to think this is an easy game go for it but Dallas with only 6 wins last year is in no position to be taking the chargers or anyone lightly. Fans can say what they want but the fans do not play the games

how about the bears 12-4 season a few years back =p
 

Doomsday101

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bonecrusher #31 said:
how about the bears 12-4 season a few years back =p

there are pleanty of examples and if fans want to act like this is not big game and that the chargers are going to be easy picking then fine, myself I don't buy that I think the Chargers are a quality team and yes they have some holes just like any other team in the NFL but they have some players who have shown the ability to make plays. I have no doubt Bill is not going to down play this to his players and this fan is not going to down play the Chargers either!!!! As I said earlier I think we can win this game but to do so we must play at the top of our game
 

Thunderstruck

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kmd24 said:
That is an inaccurate assessment of my posts. Also, I find it quite comical that you think SD can "maintain" a high turnover margin given their recent history.

Given our recent history, before last season it would have been ludicrous beyond belief to propose we'd win ten games, let alone twelve. But the thing is, our most recent history is that we are an opportunistic team that practices good ball security. Even if we don't pick up as many turnovers on defense, we can still take care of the ball on offense. That is something we control.

The whole point of this thread is that the 12-4 results SD posted in 2004 may not be indicative of the true talent of the team. I believe I have rather clearly pointed out why *I* believe that SD's results in 2004 were somewhat better than the talent on the team justifies.

Granted, you've done a better job of providing a rational explanation than most. However, you're also looking at it from a presumption that may or may not carry weight. In looking at the team's weaknesses from last season, one would be remiss not to acknowledge that this was the second-youngest team in the NFL last year, and was able to win twelve games despite those weaknesses. If one acknowledges that some of those weaknesses were due to the implementation of a new defensive system and inexperienced players in some key positions, it's not that much of a reach to presume that improvement in those areas is likely with a year of experience.

We had two rookies on the offensive line last year. They are both bigger and stronger this year, and now have a full year of experience working together. Could our o-line be better than last year?

We had a rookie starting at LDE alongside Jamal Williams, who was playing his first ever season at the nose. That rookie, Igor Olshansky, is ten pounds heavier this year, and has improved his technique considerably. We had two new linebackers. We had two second-year players at corner and a second-year player at SS. Is it "comical" to think they might improve since they now have a full season within the framework of the system?

And is it unreasonable to think that Wade Phillips was not able to open his full defensive playbook last year, because of the relative inexperience of the defensive personnel? Now that inexperience is no longer a factor, could we see our pass-ranking rise from 31st to, oh, 20th? 15th? Could that improvement overcome a nominal reduction in turnover differential?

Could the fact that LT is fully healthy for the first time since game four last year improve his chances for success?

I simply believe that SD was particularly fortuitous in 2003 in the turnover department. There were only 2 games in which SD lost the turnover battle. SD lost both of those games. There were three games in which SD had a rather significant turnover edge and barely won.

Again, you are suggesting turnovers are luck. I don't believe that at all. Defenses create turnovers. Offenses avoid turnovers. And any reduction in turnover margin we experience this year can be offset with just slight improvement elsewhere.

The recent history of this team doesn't support the idea that it will routinely post significantly positive turnover margins. Perhaps 2004 was a turning point. More likely they will regress to the mean and post a slightly positive or slightly negative turnover margin for the 2005 season.

"This team" you keep referring to didn't exist before 2004. We had a new defensive coordinator, a new defense, eleven new starters including Gates, and a QB who matured in his third year as a starter. QBs struggle in their first years in the NFL. It happens. But a QB doesn't post a 104 QB rating because he's a fluke. And before you penalize Brees for having Gates and LT, I'll remind you Aikman had some real, real good talent around him, and a hall-of-fame offensive line in front of him. All good QBs have good playmakers around them.

Too many Cowboys fans look at 12-4 and 6-10 and write the game off. There is no reason the Cowboys cannot win this game.

I don't think anyone has said the Cowboys can't win. I think several of your fellow fans have said they likely will not, which is completely different. They aren't flipping through stat books searching for a reason why they might possibly win. Sometimes, black is black and white is white, and what you see is what you get. If you have to dig, then it means your prospects are not very apparent. When we play the Eagles in their yard this year, I will believe it's possible we will win. But I will also acknowledge it's unlikely because it's hard to beat good teams in their own yard. Sure, I will be able to go find stats to point to why we can win, but it doesn't change the looming fact that it's hard to beat good teams in their own yard.

I believe that the absence of Gates and the weak SD pass rush tips the scales in the favor of Dallas. However, the one area that SD was so much better than the Cowboys in 2004 is protecting the ball. I believe that if Dallas can avoid giving SD a short field, Dallas will win the game. That is why I believe turnovers are so important in this game.

Based on what? The Dallas pass rush was just as weak last year. Oh, wait...you had four more sacks. You're going to get consistent pressure on Drew? Can your linebackers stop the run? You realize that in a 3-4 it's the linebackers who make the tackles, right? Isn't that your biggest question-mark on defense? Has Bledsoe already overcome his flaws in one preseason under Parcells? Is the right side of your offensive line going to be able to open holes for the running game against our defense? Are you going to avoid turnovers?

The way I see it, you're assuming everything is going to transition smoothly for the Boys in this first game. I am not making that assumption.
 

kmd24

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Thunderstruck said:
Given our recent history, before last season it would have been ludicrous beyond belief to propose we'd win ten games, let alone twelve. But the thing is, our most recent history is that we are an opportunistic team that practices good ball security. Even if we don't pick up as many turnovers on defense, we can still take care of the ball on offense. That is something we control.

Prior to 2004, Drew Brees was not very good at taking care of the ball. Perhaps he has turned the corner. Perhaps he will struggle without Gates.

Thunderstruck said:
Granted, you've done a better job of providing a rational explanation than most. However, you're also looking at it from a presumption that may or may not carry weight.

I did a statistical analysis of the Chargers games across several variables, and the thing that correlates most strongly with Charger wins is turnover margin. It's a huge factor for them, and if you look deeper at the stats, you see some anomalies. For example, the percentage of LB interceptions for the Chargers is quite high. The Chargers also produced a abnormally high number of interceptions compared to teams with similar sack totals.

I would point out that your speculation about the improvement of young players represents much more presumption than anything I have done. Some second year players regress rather severely, despite physical gains.

I am simply trying to make sense of some unusual stats.

Thunderstruck said:
Is it "comical" to think they might improve since they now have a full season within the framework of the system?

I sense that comment has offended you. For that I apologize. This is not personal to me.

Simply put, you are using the data point of last season's performance to project into 2005. I am simply using the evidence of dozens of football seasons which suggest that turnover margin is one of the hardest statistics to maintain. While some defenses routinely produce many turnovers, they are, in general, the ones that consistently put a lot of pressure on the QB. SD does not fit that pattern. Even teams that routinely produce a high number of turnovers experience variations in margin due to the offense turning the ball over.

Thunderstruck said:
Again, you are suggesting turnovers are luck. I don't believe that at all. Defenses create turnovers. Offenses avoid turnovers. And any reduction in turnover margin we experience this year can be offset with just slight improvement elsewhere.

Turnovers can indeed be created. In general, they are not created by teams that fit the SD profile. 2004 was the first year that Drew Brees was able to take such good care of the football. Statistics and history support my point of view, not yours.

Thunderstruck said:
"This team" you keep referring to didn't exist before 2004. We had a new defensive coordinator, a new defense, eleven new starters including Gates, and a QB who matured in his third year as a starter. QBs struggle in their first years in the NFL. It happens. But a QB doesn't post a 104 QB rating because he's a fluke.

There have been good QB's who have posted high ratings and very quickly come back to Earth. One season does not make a career.

Thunderstruck said:
And before you penalize Brees for having Gates and LT, I'll remind you Aikman had some real, real good talent around him, and a hall-of-fame offensive line in front of him. All good QBs have good playmakers around them.

I'm not penalizing Brees for anything, but Gates is not playing. That's 52% of your third down conversions and 60% of your red zone passing TD's on the bench.

Thunderstruck said:
I don't think anyone has said the Cowboys can't win. I think several of your fellow fans have said they likely will not, which is completely different. They aren't flipping through stat books searching for a reason why they might possibly win. Sometimes, black is black and white is white, and what you see is what you get. If you have to dig, then it means your prospects are not very apparent.

That's a pretty thinly veiled (and rather weak) shot, Thunder. Don't flatter yourself too much. I have analyzed statistics prior to every Cowboys game since I was in high school in the late 80's. There are many more sources now, and they are much more readily available.

TO margin is hardly some obscure stat. It correlates with winning percentage better than any other stat.

Thunderstruck said:
Based on what? The Dallas pass rush was just as weak last year. Oh, wait...you had four more sacks. You're going to get consistent pressure on Drew?

Dallas turned the ball over a lot in 2004. It is something they need to avoid. This is the main point, and the thing Dallas can control to some degree.

If the turnover margin is even, I think the game could go either way. Whether Dallas will get pressure and force turnovers remains to be seen.

I think missing Gates will dramatically affect SD's 3rd down conversion rate.

Thunderstruck said:
Can your linebackers stop the run? You realize that in a 3-4 it's the linebackers who make the tackles, right?

Now you're just being ugly. It doesn't become you.

Thunderstruck said:
Isn't that your biggest question-mark on defense? Has Bledsoe already overcome his flaws in one preseason under Parcells? Is the right side of your offensive line going to be able to open holes for the running game against our defense? Are you going to avoid turnovers?

The way I see it, you're assuming everything is going to transition smoothly for the Boys in this first game. I am not making that assumption.

There are lots of things that are difficult to predict. I am not assuming anything.

The biggest difference between the Cowboys and the Chargers in 2003 are two numbers: -15 and +15. It is the key to the game.
 

Thunderstruck

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Okay, since you like statistical analysis, consider this. Opposing QBs threw more passes against us (607) than any other team in football. Break it down to a product of interceptions per pass defended and you'll see it's not quite as anomalous as you suppose. Teams passed very often against us for two main reasons:

1. Passing had a better chance of success than running.
2. We were often leading, and never behind by enough points that the opposing offense went into ball-control mode.

(Incidentally, when you factor in the fact that our secondary gave up only 19 TD passes, more impressive when viewed in terms of TD's per pass defensed, you can see why passing yards are, by themselves, an empty stat.)

In other words, the turnovers were the effect of a cause, moreso than just the fortuitous blundering of hapless quarterbacks. The cause has to be controlled before the effect will go away. You first have to figure out how to run the ball, and/or how to slow our offense enough to amass a lead, or you will find yourself throwing a lot--and not only passing, but passing into three-deep and nickle defenses which pose a greater risk--and in so doing, you're statistically increasing your chances of a turnover.
 

FLcowboy

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RoysAHitta said:
the reason i think we win.. no GATES. he was their passing game, plain and simple. without him we can stack 8 in the box and hold LT to under 100. and i got a feeling our offense is going to put up some points on their d. i could actually see this game getting out of hand in our favor, call me nuts.

Ok nuts.

I think it will be a close game, because our defense is going to give up some big plays due to mis-reads and plain old mistakes. I think the "Boys can win, but no run-away.
 

kmd24

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Thunderstruck said:
Okay, since you like statistical analysis, consider this. Opposing QBs threw more passes against us (607) than any other team in football. Break it down to a product of interceptions per pass defended and you'll see it's not quite as anomalous as you suppose.

Perhaps, but it also means that the SD pass rush was that much more anemic.

As an aside, here is a quote from BP's press conference today.:

The most important factor is not get behind too far. Where you don’t have to change your style. These guys we’re playing are poster boys for that. They are a ball control team who has a big plus ratio on turnovers last year, so they end up 12-4.

I am very confident that SD will not post +15 or better in TO margin this year.
 

Thunderstruck

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kmd24 said:
Perhaps, but it also means that the SD pass rush was that much more anemic.

As an aside, here is a quote from BP's press conference today.:



I am very confident that SD will not post +15 or better in TO margin this year.

It starts with offense. Keep the Chargers from getting an early lead and establish a running game. If you can do those two things, then you won't be passing into the teeth of our nickle defense. You can pass on your own terms. Thing is, you'll then find out that passing yards aren't as easy to come by, because we don't play that soft zone unless we have the lead. Our secondary isn't always easy to throw against.

Thing is, the strength of our defense lies in preventing you from establishing a running game, and in scoring points early, so it's easier said than done.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Thunderstruck said:
Okay, since you like statistical analysis, consider this. Opposing QBs threw more passes against us (607) than any other team in football. Break it down to a product of interceptions per pass defended and you'll see it's not quite as anomalous as you suppose. Teams passed very often against us for two main reasons:

1. Passing had a better chance of success than running.
2. We were often leading, and never behind by enough points that the opposing offense went into ball-control mode.

(Incidentally, when you factor in the fact that our secondary gave up only 19 TD passes, more impressive when viewed in terms of TD's per pass defensed, you can see why passing yards are, by themselves, an empty stat.)

In other words, the turnovers were the effect of a cause, moreso than just the fortuitous blundering of hapless quarterbacks. The cause has to be controlled before the effect will go away. You first have to figure out how to run the ball, and/or how to slow our offense enough to amass a lead, or you will find yourself throwing a lot--and not only passing, but passing into three-deep and nickle defenses which pose a greater risk--and in so doing, you're statistically increasing your chances of a turnover.

Your defense intercepted the ball A LOT. Your YPA was run of the mill and you allowed opponents to complete over 60% of their passes. In other words, if Bledsoe doesn't throw picks your secondary can be torched.

Bledsoe fumbles so if you had a good pass rush, which you dont, you could exploit his weakness. He just doesnt throw many picks and with the receiving options that he has in Witten, Glenn, Johnson, Price, and Crayton he is not going to be forced to throw into coverage.

Your players in the secondary are at best pedestrian and if we go three wide singleback it will be quite the conundrum. With Johnson in the slot he is perhaps the best blocking WR in the NFL and Jones has gotten a lot of success out of that formation. You have to respect the draw with our guys on the edge.

Who is your nickelback anyway? I dont think you want him on the field much.
 

kmd24

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Thunderstruck said:
1. Passing had a better chance of success than running.
2. We were often leading, and never behind by enough points that the opposing offense went into ball-control mode.

After further review, I agree with your first point, but not so much the second. SD only had 6 interceptions while leading by more than 7 points. The bulk of the turnovers were helping SD to build leads, not prevent comebacks.
 

Nors

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Big, Big Lie -



Chargers: Position analysis

By: JAY PARIS - Staff Writer

QUARTERBACK

> Starter: Drew Brees. > Backups: Philip Rivers, Cleo Lemon.

The Chargers seek an encore to a season in which Brees was amazing ---- earning a Pro Bowl selection and being the NFL's comeback player of the year. If so, the Chargers' brass could offer Brees the long-term deal he desires and show Rivers the door.


RUNNING BACK

> Starters: RB LaDainian Tomlinson, FB Lorenzo Neal. > Backups: RB Michael Turner, RB Darren Sproles, FB Andrew Pinnock.

Tomlinson obviously is one of the NFL's elite backs. He's gunning for 2,000 yards rushing this year; few do a double-take when he mentions it. Neal's unsung contributions can't be minimized ---- ask any middle linebacker meeting him in the hole. Turner provides change of pace; the quick and elusive Sproles could be a standout on third downs.

TIGHT END

> Starter: Antonio Gates. > Backups: Justin Peelle, Ryan Krause, Landon Trusty.

Peelle, a blocker more than a pass-catcher, gets the starting call Sunday as Gates serves the final game of his suspension. Gates' star shines brightly as he continues his revolution at the tight end spot. Krause shows promise; Trusty will be cut when Gates rejoins active roster.

WIDE RECEIVER

> Starters: Keenan McCardell and Eric Parker. > Backups: Reche Caldwell, Kassim Osgood, Vincent Jackson.

McCardell is eager to prove at age 35 his motor still revs. Parker set career-highs in three categories in '04 and if his slight frame allows, could trump his recent showing. Caldwell, a starter last year, has rebounded from knee surgery and is an able No. 3. Osgood and Jackson are prime red-zone targets, although Jackson's progress has been slowed by a balky Achilles' tendon.

OFFENSIVE LINE

> Starters: LT Roman Oben, LG Toniu Fonoti, C Nick Hardwick, RG Mike Goff, RT Shane Olivea. > Backups: LT Leander Jordan, LG Kris Dielman, C Bob Hallen, C/RG Scott Mruczkowski.

Oben and Goff are savvy and good; Fonoti, Hardwick and Olivea are the youngsters not blinking. It's a good mix, especially when considering they met just last year. Fonoti has become a mauler, especially on run-blocks, and his motivation should be high in a contract year.

DEFENSIVE LINE

> Starters: LE Jacques Cesaire, DT Jamal Williams, RE Igor Olshansky. > Backups: LE Luis Castillo, LE Derreck Robinson, RE DeQuincy Scott, RE Dave Ball. Among the reasons for the Chargers' stout run defense is Williams, the wonder in the middle. Olshansky and Cesaire can bust the run, too, but they give way on passing downs to Castillo, Scott and Ball. Castillo might have been a starter but injuries derailed him. Ball has shown some promise.

LINEBACKER

> Starters: OLB Ben Leber, ILB Donnie Edwards, ILB Randall Godfrey, OLB Steve Foley. > Backups: OLB Shaun Phillips, OLB Shawne Merriman, ILB Matt Wilhelm, ILB Stephen Cooper, OLB Marques Harris.

Foley requires some help this season, after recording more than a third of the team's sacks last year. Phillips will help; Merriman will eventually, once his knee ---- and conditioning ---- improves. Edwards flies under the radar but routinely leads the team in tackles; his five INTs were a club-high last year, too. Godfrey wants to go out big in his last year. Wilhelm and Cooper could start elsewhere; Harris is a pass-rushing specialist.

SECONDARY

> Starters: LCB Quentin Jammer, RCB Drayton Florence, SS Terrence Kiel, FS Bhawoh Jue. > Backups: LCB Jamar Fletcher, RCB Sammy Davis, SS Clinton Hart, SS Hanik Milligan, FS Jerry Wilson.

Enough talk about potential and making excuses for shoddy play because of a tepid pass rush. It's time this unit starts playing to its billing. The team touts Jammer as a shutdown corner, but many are not convinced. Florence is flashy; consistency would be better. Jue won out over Wilson ---- why we're not sure. Kiel continues to grow and is making more plays as his comfort level increases. Davis is a first-round bust, although the Chargers' brass would never say it.

SPECIAL TEAMS

> Place-kicker: Nate Kaeding. Punter: Mike Scifres. Kick returner: Darren Sproles.

Kaeding's rookie season (20-of-25 on field goals) was good, and a benevolent Charger Nation has forgiven him for that game-winning overtime miss in the playoffs. That's fine, but Kaeding needs to prove again he's reliable after a wobbly exhibition season. Scifres, a Louisiana native, will look goofy wearing a lei at the Pro Bowl, but that's where he's headed. Sproles delivers more twists and turns than Highway 101. If the undersized rookie doesn't crash and burn, he'll be a weapon.
 

Nors

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Good game but our Offense got the better of you.

We controlled LT under 100.

W - on the road. As I laid out all week - SD really not a 12-4 team -

Good luck beating the rest of NFC east - I'm rooting for you now!
 

Dallas

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Nors said:
Good game but our Offense got the better of you.

We controlled LT under 100.

W - on the road. As I laid out all week - SD really not a 12-4 team -

Good luck beating the rest of NFC east - I'm rooting for you now!

Nors - I see what people dont like much around here. Im gonna give you a new nickname. From now on your will be known as ...

Honan the Gloater - Evil NorthEastern Viking who tromps into unsuspecting football forums claiming the obvious and then after the obvious happens comes back to gloat that it was all his idea. Claims of being a master of the game and GM duties.

You really should get hold of yourself bro.

Somewhere - a village is crying for its idiot. :cool:
 

Nors

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Dallas said:
Nors - I see what people dont like much around here. Im gonna give you a new nickname. From now on your will be known as ...

Honan the Gloater - Evil NorthEastern Viking who tromps into unsuspecting football forums claiming the obvious and then after the obvious happens comes back to gloat that it was all his idea. Claims of being a master of the game and GM duties.

You really should get hold of yourself bro.

Somewhere - a village is crying for its idiot. :cool:

A) I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD 2/3 YEARS
1) It was not obvious
2) I called it correct
3) I am of Viking descent - actually - and you can't handle any of that.

Stop with the Idiot taunts -see TOS

Wanna talk football?
 

Dallas

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Nors said:
A) I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD 2/3 YEARS
1) It was not obvious
2) I called it correct
3) I am of Viking descent - actually - and you can't handle any of that.

Stop with the Idiot taunts -see TOS

Wanna talk football?

Say whatever you want. It was obvious. I knew Dallas had a great chance of success. Many of us did and even stated the fact. By Dallas winning and you trying to trumpet around gathering sunshine just pisses folks off.

Why dont you just step the heck back and just be a fan of the game? Dont come back into threads all jacked up that "You called it". Thats just rediculous behavior.

Dont be a jerk I guess is what im saying.
 

Nors

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Actually it was you being the jerk starting the stir.

I BACKED IT WITH FACT - Dallas won tonight!
 

Dallas

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Nors said:
Actually it was you being the jerk starting the stir.

I BACKED IT WITH FACT - Dallas won tonight!

My point is lost on you as is every other point folks try and make w/ you.

You backed NOTHING WITH FACT.

Forget it. Im wasting my time.
 
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