Scattershooting: Garrett and Stephen Jones

xwalker

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My conclusion is that Garrett has much less control over roster decisions than he had in the past.

I think Stephen Jones has put Garrett in the corner.

I don't think Garrett wanted to cut Dez regardless of what Dez thinks happened. Stephen Jones never wanted to give Dez the mega-contract and Linehan campaigned to dump Dez.

I think that if Garrett was in complete control that he would have convinced Witten to stay.

It also appears that Garrett was against the cut of Dan Bailey.

If I'm correct, I think it's a great sign that things have changed for the better.


It is not ideal to have the front office and head coach not be on the same page; however, Garrett has not earned the trust that is given to coaches like Belicheck.

Only a few Head Coaches have earned the trust to be given complete control of personnel.

Giving complete control to coaches on the hot seat or 1st year coaches could be a disaster for teams.

The Eagles somehow managed to overcome the Chip Kelly debacle; however, that could have been a disaster for them.

Jon Gruden could be creating a huge mess in Oakland. They are making radical decisions before Gruden and his coaching staff have even seen players in a regular season game.

Coaches on the hot seat make high-risk decisions to win now even if it's a bad long term strategy for the team.

Some coaches like Garrett and Marinelli appear to make decisions because they like or dislike a player on a personal level. I think Garrett would have kept Witten forever and paid him whatever was required to keep him including Witten playing 100% of the snaps when he was 45 years old. Nick Golden Cock Hayden would likely still be here if Marinelli was making the decisions.

Even with great coaches teams need to be careful. Some people think Belicheck would sabbatoge the Patriots if he was ready to retire or move on to another team because he is not on great terms with the owner. Jimmy gave a young player to Dave Wannstedt in Chicago because Jimmy figured he would be gone by the time the player developed and he liked reminding Jerry that he was in charge of personnel decisions regardless of what Jerry told the media.

I'm not a Garrett hater and I believe he has done some very good things for the team; however, I don't want him to be the final decision maker for personnel decisions, especially now that Stephen Jones has put him on the hot seat.
 

Tommy

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I don't see why fans can't accept that they take an organizational approach to personnel.
Because it’s not nearly as interesting.

Fans watch football games and listen to press conferences and think they know everything about the coaches and FO. Then when something happens that doesn’t fit their preconceived notions then obviously something in the heirachy has changed.
 

irishline

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I don't see why fans can't accept that they take an organizational approach to personnel.

Because it interrupts their Cowboy world view that if it was bad it must be Jerry, if it wasn't it had to be someone else. By extension you can add Garrett to the must be bad if he did it.

Always made me laugh honestly. You could have two Cowboy decisions happen on the same day, at the same time. The bad decision would have to be Jerry fault, and the good decision someone else. As if he and the team don't/didn't collaborate on these personnel things.
 

gimmesix

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I don't see why fans can't accept that they take an organizational approach to personnel.

I think we're reading way too much into things if we believe that Garrett wasn't in agreement or at least didn't protest the decisions the team has made.

It's possible that he didn't like the Dez Bryant decision or that he was the leading instigator or he didn't really care. The same with Witten. The same with Bailey.
 

GenoT

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I don't see why fans can't accept that they take an organizational approach to personnel.
Probably because many, if not most fans, wish to take this black-and-white view:

Good Personnel Decision: Will McClay and/or Stephen Jones.

Bad Personnel Decision: Jerry Jones and/or Jason Garrett.

I suspect it’s more likely that Jerry, Stephen, McClay, Garrett, Marinelli and Linehan, as a committee, make the decisions — with various others in the organizational hierarchy having their voices counted from time to time, depending on the player/issue in question.
 

xwalker

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Probably because many, if not most fans, wish to take this black-and-white view:

Good Personnel Decision: Will McClay and/or Stephen Jones.

Bad Personnel Decision: Jerry Jones and/or Jason Garrett.

I suspect it’s more likely that Jerry, Stephen, McClay, Garrett, Marinelli and Linehan, as a committee, make the decisions — with various others in the organizational hierarchy having their voices counted from time to time, depending on the player/issue in question.

It is all about finding the right balance.

Many years too many people had too much input because Jerry didn't have a structured process around him.

Then they went to the other extreme (See DL Floyd) and didn't consult the coaches in the draft.

Now Stephen Jones is the final decision maker. If Jerry questions him, he goes into a long speech about salary cap issues. Jerry's eyes glaze over and Jerry slips out of the room to get a drink and never returns. Stephen spends another 4 hours talking about the cap just for fun. Jerry comes by and peaks in but then sneaks out and goes to the strip club.
 

DiResta

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My conclusion is that Garrett has much less control over roster decisions than he had in the past.

I think Stephen Jones has put Garrett in the corner.

I don't think Garrett wanted to cut Dez regardless of what Dez thinks happened. Stephen Jones never wanted to give Dez the mega-contract and Linehan campaigned to dump Dez.

I think that if Garrett was in complete control that he would have convinced Witten to stay.

It also appears that Garrett was against the cut of Dan Bailey.

If I'm correct, I think it's a great sign that things have changed for the better.


It is not ideal to have the front office and head coach not be on the same page; however, Garrett has not earned the trust that is given to coaches like Belicheck.

Only a few Head Coaches have earned the trust to be given complete control of personnel.

Giving complete control to coaches on the hot seat or 1st year coaches could be a disaster for teams.

The Eagles somehow managed to overcome the Chip Kelly debacle; however, that could have been a disaster for them.

Jon Gruden could be creating a huge mess in Oakland. They are making radical decisions before Gruden and his coaching staff have even seen players in a regular season game.

Coaches on the hot seat make high-risk decisions to win now even if it's a bad long term strategy for the team.

Some coaches like Garrett and Marinelli appear to make decisions because they like or dislike a player on a personal level. I think Garrett would have kept Witten forever and paid him whatever was required to keep him including Witten playing 100% of the snaps when he was 45 years old. Nick Golden Cock Hayden would likely still be here if Marinelli was making the decisions.

Even with great coaches teams need to be careful. Some people think Belicheck would sabbatoge the Patriots if he was ready to retire or move on to another team because he is not on great terms with the owner. Jimmy gave a young player to Dave Wannstedt in Chicago because Jimmy figured he would be gone by the time the player developed and he liked reminding Jerry that he was in charge of personnel decisions regardless of what Jerry told the media.

I'm not a Garrett hater and I believe he has done some very good things for the team; however, I don't want him to be the final decision maker for personnel decisions, especially now that Stephen Jones has put him on the hot seat.
sorry xwalker but the way Garrett was in his pc after Romo was benched and the way he refuses to disclose anything except with certain individuals, think of how he handled Callahan, that guy was pissed the way he was treated and it forms a pattern
I think Garrett is very good at office politics
I think Stephen is thrifty but Garrett plays a big part in coaching and player changes

yeah he admired Witten but then most do

I'm just waiting for them to do Lee next
Garrett.jpg
 

jazzcat22

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There is no hot seat for Garrett. No one should have any hope Garrett woould be fired, Jerry has his built in excuses from back in April, if not before.

Only if we go 0-16 and remain completely healthy will there be a 3% chance Garrett is gone.
 

Idgit

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I think about the opposite of this. I think Garrett was on team 'cut Dez,' I think Witten's decision was a fait accompli and that there wasn't a realistic chance of convincing him to stay another year, though Garrett probably did try to make that happen and couldn't. I think Garret's comments re: Bailey made it clear that the decision was data-driven, and that he's being professional since Bailey's now a free agent.

I also think that Stephen Jones is an advocate for Jason, and always has been. I don't think they operate by heating up seats. I think they want to keep him as the HC, but that the reality is, if the organization doesn't deliver this season, he's going to be fired. But I think Jason knows that and understands that it's the reality of the situation. They're not looking at him to specifically perform. They're all working together to build a competitive team, and they all understand that if they can't progress in the postseason things are going to change. Jerry and Stephen won't get fired, but they'll understand it's not all on Garrett and his coordinators.

Jason's never going to have personnel control in Dallas, I think that's understood.
 

tm1119

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Great...now we just need an actual football guy making the decisions and not someone who got the job by way of nepotism.
 
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