Schoon another draft bust

[big dog cowboy]

Fingers crossed the Cowboys get a comp pick for him.

 

[RonWashington]

We've had a really weird thing with taking TEs in round 2, for the longest time it seems.

With the expectation of Martellus Bennett they've all been underwhelming. AND we never really used MB enough. I know we had Witten but I cant imagine not doing well running 12 personnel with those two now days.

Bennett had more talent then Schoon

 

[Creeper]

So ragging on the DT Mazi has almost become a piñata at a birthday party on this board. At the time you could argue DT was needed . With Schultz and Ferguson here how do you argue taking a TE round 2 for Schoon was sound value ? I thought TE that yr round 2 was bizarre .


In my mind both Fant and or Fairweather should be brought up from the PS and to be honest what’s Spann Fords value ? This is a year that may turn into cleaning out roster time to see who makes you better today and tomorrow.

The Cowboys never learn. They drafted Bennet when they have Witten and Bennett went to waste on the bench behind Witten. Bennet left Dallas and became made the pro-bowl. So when they had Ferguson, the drafted Schoonmaker and he is wasting behind Ferguson. Why draft him in the first place? Schoonmaker has shown nothing as a pass catching TE. And he is mid at best as a blocker.

Spann-Ford on the other hand is an excellent blocker as a TE. He has value in the run game and as an occasional receiver.

I think a few people on this forum wanted the Cowboys to take O'Cyrus Torrence, the OG out of Florida who was drafted by the Bills with the next pick. I believe he is starting for the Bills now.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

We purchased a Honda Accord for the price of a Porsche 911.

 

[phildadon86]

We purchased a Honda Accord for the price of a Porsche 911.

Considering his age, more like a Honda CRX if you remember those.

 

[shabazz]

I know we've seen little to nothing from him, but if he goes to the Chiefs or Bills would be completely shocked to see him get 1000 yards?

 

[HungryLion]

Exactly. When Buffalo jumped them for Kincaid. They decided tight end only in the second round.

The year before when they grabbed Micah. They wanted corner. So in the second they fixated on the position and grabbed Kelvin Joseph.

Creed Humphrey was drafted after him. All pro center. The second round is a throwaway for the cowboys. It’s Jerry’s “it’s my toy” round.

It’s so gross. I remember that.

The only reason we got Micah is because the cowboys were salivating over Surtain and Jayce’s horn who were both gone. (In fairness surtain has been great)


So once they didn’t get a corner in round 1. They were DEAD SET on taking a corner in round 2. No matter what. They were taking a corner.

It didn’t matter that there were better football players available. They forced a corner pick.

That’s why our second rounders have been horrible. They force position picks regularly in that round and it bites them. They did it with Tristen Hill. They did it with Sam Williams. They did it with schoonmaker. They did it with kelvin joseph.

 

[Mr_437]

In my mind both Fant and or Fairweather should be brought up from the PS and to be honest what’s Spann Fords value ? This is a year that may turn into cleaning out roster time to see who makes you better today and tomorrow.

Here's where I look at the Coaches sideways at TE. Spann-Ford was TE2 in camp, got hurt and now he lost his position to Schoonmaker??? I have two issues with this:
1) Spann-Ford is a very good in-line blocker, at 270 he's just as big as base DEs, yet Schotty sends 250 Schoon to block those big DEs and get destroyed.
2) In camp, Fairweather and Fant made more plays then Schoon, not only did Schoon not show he should be TE2 over Spann-Ford, he lost ground in competition with Fairweather n Fant.

I don't know why Schoonmaker is still TE2, maybe it's a Coach Jerry thing, but playing lesser players over better players is a recipe for 1-3.

Edit: Forgot to mention that play from Spann-Ford snagging a missle from Joe Milton then rumbling down field ,hurdling a defender was eye opening, Coaches can't ignore this Dude.

 

[RS12]

Dont get me wrong. I am not defending the pick at all. The only resson he doesnt singled out more is Mazi was drafted ahead of him. This is probably what they were looking at but his elite athleticism foesnt show up on the field.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I hate to say it but I think some of that has to do with MM not being as competent a talent evaluator as JG was.

Um, what? His first drafts were CeeDee, Micah, and Tyler Smith.

That said, I don't think either HC was actually making the picks.

 

[phildadon86]

It’s so gross. I remember that.

The only reason we got Micah is because the cowboys were salivating over Surtain and Jayce’s horn who were both gone. (In fairness surtain has been great)


So once they didn’t get a corner in round 1. They were DEAD SET on taking a corner in round 2. No matter what. They were taking a corner.

It didn’t matter that there were better football players available. They forced a corner pick.

That’s why our second rounders have been horrible. They force position picks regularly in that round and it bites them. They did it with Tristen Hill. They did it with Sam Williams. They did it with schoonmaker. They did it with kelvin joseph.

Imagine if this team had grabbed Creed Humphrey instead.

 

[Jipper]

Um, what? His first drafts were CeeDee, Micah, and Tyler Smith.

That said, I don't think either HC was actually making the picks.

Yes, but very top heavy - not hard to pick guys like ceedee and Micah when they fall to you, much harder to hit in the middle rounds when they are poor talent evaluator.

This team is top heavy and has depth issues which makes it susceptible to injuries more so than if they had better depth

 

[RonWashington]

Here's where I look at the Coaches sideways at TE. Spann-Ford was TE2 in camp, got hurt and now he lost his position to Schoonmaker??? I have two issues with this:
1) Spann-Ford is a very good in-line blocker, at 270 he's just as big as base DEs, yet Schotty sends 250 Schoon to block those big DEs and get destroyed.
2) In camp, Fairweather and Fant made more plays then Schoon, not only did Schoon not show he should be TE2 over Spann-Ford, he lost ground in competition with Fairweather n Fant.

I don't know why Schoonmaker is still TE2, maybe it's a Coach Jerry thing, but playing lesser players over better players is a recipe for 1-3.

Edit: Forgot to mention that play from Spann-Ford snagging a missle from Joe Milton then rumbling down field ,hurdling a defender was eye opening, Coaches can't ignore this Dude.

Your right . Schoon taking snaps from any of those three is puzzling . Schott through Jerry seems to be stuck in let’s play salaries instead of production .

 

[Rayman70]

I said when they drafted him that he was a JAG and nothing special.

I think they were after another tight-end that got drafted ahead of him and they were so locked in on the position they went with him.

There is no reason to select a tight-end in the first 3 rounds of the draft unless he was great (not good, but great) in college and he has near wide-receiver skills like great hands, solid speed and ability to make the tough catches in traffic.

You can find blocking tight-ends in the low rounds or even from the undrafted rookies.

your last line is correct 100%. That said, if we look at Schoon in a different light, the way you presented him correctly, forgetting where he was drafted, he's not really a bust, just mis drafted...but still a good player, though limited. I can argue he's not a jag. Just limited and over drafted. Same with Mazi. Its not their fault they were terribly over drafted. As long as we all understand what they are, including the limitations, then we can MAYBE utilize them best, instead of trying to fool ourselves and the player. Its really unfair to the player to make them something they never been or will be. Thats why coaches like Andy Reid for example is so great at team building. He correctly evaluates players, along with the scouts they have. He figures out what they do best, implements it. Nothing is forced. Will McClay as of late, hasn't been good. Enough attention hasn't been put on that fact. If anyone thinks the Jones boys are picking players and watching tape, they are grossly mistaken. They are the GM in Title only, Jerry and Stevie, but the real GM is McClay. Hès just not been very good lately. Schoon is good at what he does, Mazi is more a work in progress. BUT NOT BAD.JUST LIMITED SO FAR. Neither I would deem a bust. They DO have talent; they just need what they do well properly implemented.

 

[Rayman70]

So ragging on the DT Mazi has almost become a piñata at a birthday party on this board. At the time you could argue DT was needed . With Schultz and Ferguson here how do you argue taking a TE round 2 for Schoon was sound value ? I thought TE that yr round 2 was bizarre .


In my mind both Fant and or Fairweather should be brought up from the PS and to be honest what’s Spann Fords value ? This is a year that may turn into cleaning out roster time to see who makes you better today and tomorrow.

you nailed it, especially the last 2 sentences. Fairweather is a great hands guy, fleet of foot, and very athletic. Gives off Antonio Gates vibes. We need that guy called up to the 53. He can help us now. Ferguson is clunky, slow. Im sorry, he just is limited. He is more a blocker than he is a route running TE. Hès a seam TE, Straightline stuff is what he can do best. Fairweather and Fant can do it all well. Big mistake extending Fergie btw. He already hit his ceiling.

 

[Rayman70]

Your right . Schoon taking snaps from any of those three is puzzling . Schott through Jerry seems to be stuck in let’s play salaries instead of production .

Agree

 

[Reality]

your last line is correct 100%. That said, if we look at Schoon in a different light, the way you presented him correctly, forgetting where he was drafted, he's not really a bust, just mis drafted...but still a good player, though limited. I can argue he's not a jag. Just limited and over drafted. Same with Mazi. Its not their fault they were terribly over drafted. As long as we all understand what they are, including the limitations, then we can MAYBE utilize them best, instead of trying to fool ourselves and the player. Its really unfair to the player to make them something they never been or will be. Thats why coaches like Andy Reid for example is so great at team building. He correctly evaluates players, along with the scouts they have. He figures out what they do best, implements it. Nothing is forced. Will McClay as of late, hasn't been good. Enough attention hasn't been put on that fact. If anyone thinks the Jones boys are picking players and watching tape, they are grossly mistaken. They are the GM in Title only, Jerry and Stevie, but the real GM is McClay. Hès just not been very good lately. Schoon is good at what he does, Mazi is more a work in progress. BUT NOT BAD.JUST LIMITED SO FAR. Neither I would deem a bust. They DO have talent; they just need what they do well properly implemented.

I agree, it's possible his value would have been more justified had he been taken lower in the draft, but he just didn't look "special" in any way.

I am not saying he's a bust by any means, but rather he was not special enough to use a second round pick to get him.

Tight-ends get slower and bulkier in the NFL so if they are already maxxing at good speed level and already have muscle bulk, odds are they will get slower and bigger after a year or two in the NFL.

For example, compare these college highlight videos:





Which one of those players looks better?

The first one, they drafted with a second round pick.

The second one, they signed as an undrafted rookie free agent.

I would rather have the second one and my second round pick back (and that's not hindsight .. that's how I felt then about drafting Schoonmaker).

Again, I'm not bashing Schoonmaker because he's a good (albeit basic) tight-end, but your #1 and #2 tight-ends should be playmakers.

Your #3 tight-end should be your blocking tight-end and you can get one of those from the undrafted rookie pool or even convert a college lineman that couldn't make it as a lineman in the NFL to be your blocking tight-end.

 

[Rayman70]

I agree, it's possible his value would have been more justified had he been taken lower in the draft, but he just didn't look "special" in any way.

I am not saying he's a bust by any means, but rather he was not special enough to use a second round pick to get him.

Tight-ends get slower and bulkier in the NFL so if they are already maxxing at good speed level and already have muscle bulk, odds are they will get slower and bigger after a year or two in the NFL.

For example, compare these college highlight videos:





Which one of those players looks better?

The first one, they drafted with a second round pick.

The second one, they signed as an undrafted rookie free agent.

I would rather have the second one and my second round pick back (and that's not hindsight .. that's how I felt then about drafting Schoonmaker).

Again, I'm not bashing Schoonmaker because he's a good (albeit basic) tight-end, but your #1 and #2 tight-ends should be playmakers.

Your #3 tight-end should be your blocking tight-end and you can get one of those from the undrafted rookie pool or even convert a college lineman that couldn't make it as a lineman in the NFL to be your blocking tight-end.

we agree. Love Fairweather. He needs to be on the 53 like yesterday. I like Spann Ford, but he's also limited. Fairweather can cause a defense to account for him due to his ability. Its a gross injustice not playing this kid Fairweather. Hés too talented to be on the PS. He will get poached if we aren't careful.

 

[Rayman70]

Schoon, Fergie and Fairweather should be our 3 tight ends on the 53. Spann Ford I'm not worried about being poached if we stash him on the ps. If we lose him, so what.

 

[Captain-Crash]

I think they let little Jerry Pinhead Jr. make the second-round picks, or one of the grandkids.

Jerry, "Sure, little pizzaface boy, you can do the second round pick for us." Make sure it's a hurt guy or a TE...