Scott Linehan & The Running Game

[TwoDeep3]

Subjective by me?

I posted the guys track record, you came back with all the excuses in the world and I'm subjective?

Your theory is flawed and the teams he has worked with in the pros have a large hand in why he isn't - in your mind - a running coordinator.

I'm not making excuses. I am pointing out your theory has a hole in it and marry that with wqhat he has said about finally having the components to run and I believe you are wrong.

 

[Irving Cowboy]

And that" success" in the passing game gets next to zero in terms of titles.

Sounds like you are another one of those who are hung up on titles.

 

[Idgit]

Sounds like you are another one of those who are hung up on titles.

Lots of us like titles. I didn't understand what he was getting at though, did you? Passing effectiveness differential is a pretty effective predictor of whose likely to win a game, and winning games is how you win titles.

I think he might be talking college still, but it's unclear.

 

[khiladi]

If the defensive adjustments to an effective running game mattered, then they would show up in the victory correlations. But they don't.

How many TDs were thrown off of play-action? Oh yeah, that's right, you don't know... You know why? Because none of those passing yards tell you what play call resulted in that yardage.

 

[Idgit]

How many TDs were thrown off of play-action? Oh yeah, that's right, you don't know... You know why? Because none of those passing yards tell you what play call resulted in that yardage.

What are you trying to say?

 

[khiladi]

What are you trying to say?

What exactly is successful play-action predicated on? To quote you again:

If the defensive adjustments to an effective running game mattered, then they would show up in the victory correlations. But they don't.

 

[Rockport]

No. I don't think so. Many people like to measure or weigh things before deciding what's important and why.

I believe it's *not* relying on actual information that's most commonly associated with poor conclusions.

We'll have to disagree. It's just common sense that if you rely on statistics to form you opinion, you're not always going to be right.

 

[Idgit]

What exactly is successful play-action predicated on? To quote you again:

Being evasive isn't helping here. I really don't know what point you're trying to make.

I will say that, for some reason, people struggle with the idea that a running game is obviously important in general while running effectively is not. Defenses are going to react to a play action tendency if that's something you've shown on tape. If that's part of what helps you pass effectively well, great.

It still doesn't change the fact that running the ball better than the other guy doesn't help you win games. And if it doesn't help you win games there's little point I spending precious resources devoting to it.

 

[Idgit]

We'll have to disagree. It's just common sense that if you rely on statistics to form you opinion, you're not always going to be right.

There's a world of difference between always being right and the phrasing you used when you asked the question. The correlation data only attempts to measure the relationship. It isn't perfectly predictive, if that's what you're asking.

 

[Rockport]

There's a world of difference between always being right and the phrasing you used when you asked the question. The correlation data only attempts to measure the relationship. It isn't perfectly predictive, if that's what you're asking.

Your nit picking to try and discredit. Just like alot of other folks around here.

 

[Idgit]

Your nit picking to try and discredit. Just like alot of other folks around here.

This is your comment we're talking about, right?

Relying on statistics to form ones opinion leads to incorrect conclusions. Isn't that common knowledge?

If so, I'm not nit-picking. 'Not always being right' and 'leads to incorrect conclusions' are not the same thing. The former implies that using statistical data is imperfect. The latter that relying on statistics is inherently likely to mislead you. Very different arguments.

 

[Rockport]

This is your comment we're talking about, right?



If so, I'm not nit-picking. 'Not always being right' and 'leads to incorrect conclusions' are not the same thing. The former implies that using statistical data is imperfect. The latter that relying on statistics is inherently likely to mislead you. Very different arguments.

Whatever dude.

 

[khiladi]

Being evasive isn't helping here. I really don't know what point you're trying to make.

I will say that, for some reason, people struggle with the idea that a running game is obviously important in general while running effectively is not. Defenses are going to react to a play action tendency if that's something you've shown on tape. If that's part of what helps you pass effectively well, great.

It still doesn't change the fact that running the ball better than the other guy doesn't help you win games. And if it doesn't help you win games there's little point I spending precious resources devoting to it.

There is nothing evasive about what I'm saying, but you seem to be looking for excuses out of a very simply point. Let us assume your argument about 'viewing the tape' was true? What do you attribute a play-action being successful too, even after a defense 'studied the tape'?

 

[Doomsday101]

Simple breakdown forget titles Linehan will be the guy calling plays I have no doubt he will use the weapons we have be it in the passing game or running game. Yes in Det he passed a lot why? He had the best WR in the game there he used the weapon he had. As Det brought in Reggie Bush he used him as well and the Det running game showed improvement. In Dallas he will use the weapons in Dez, Witten, Williams and yes Murray. How much will he run? I think each game presents it's own challenges, if facing a team who is weak vs run then you attack that. Object is still to move the ball and put points on the board if you do it via the pass or the run really does not matter as long as you move the chains and put the points on the board.

 

[jday]

Simple breakdown forget titles Linehan will be the guy calling plays I have no doubt he will use the weapons we have be it in the passing game or running game. Yes in Det he passed a lot why? He had the best WR in the game there he used the weapon he had. As Det brought in Reggie Bush he used him as well and the Det running game showed improvement. In Dallas he will use the weapons in Dez, Witten, Williams and yes Murray. How much will he run? I think each game presents it's own challenges, if facing a team who is weak vs run then you attack that. Object is still to move the ball and put points on the board if you do it via the pass or the run really does not matter as long as you move the chains and put the points on the board.

I think Al Davis said it best:

Just Win Baby!!!

 

[Doomsday101]

I think Al Davis said it best:

Just Win Baby!!!

Well Al was right about that.

 

[jday]

Well Al was right about that.

One of the few things he was right about. Many people get so caught up in the number of running vs. pass plays, when, as you said, it really doesn't matter what you do, so long as it's working and leading to a win.

 

[Doomsday101]

One of the few things he was right about. Many people get so caught up in the number of running vs. pass plays, when, as you said, it really doesn't matter what you do, so long as it's working and leading to a win.

Well Al may have lost it as he got older but he started off as a Coach even taking coach of the year in the AFL so Al did understand this game quite well. As for running and passing goes the enemy is different every week and so how you attack their weakness should somewhat change as well. It is not the same game plan for every game.

 

[jday]

Well Al may have lost it as he got older but he started off as a Coach even taking coach of the year in the AFL so Al did understand this game quite well. As for running and passing goes the enemy is different every week and so how you attack their weakness should somewhat change as well. It is not the same game plan for every game.

And that is why I hate it when the mediots/bloggers look at past seasons as a whole and use season pass vs run ratios in an attempt to strengthen their agenda against Jason Garrett. The argument automatically loses credibility, because you cannot look at season stats to form conclusions that there is a secret balance that when applied over a season will lead to championships. Like you said, you have to look at each game and understand the individual situations. If you are playing from behind with a huge deficit, you cannot run the ball and expect to catch up and win. Transversley, when you are playing with a substantial lead, the last thing you want to do is it air it out - which, admittedly, Garrett has been guily of doing.

To be clear, it hasn't all been pretty and I am glad he is no longer responsible for calling the plays as the Head Coach. But that has more to with me preferring the Head Coach to maintain a birdseye view of all of the teams innerworkings, as opposed to being focused on one aspect. In his first few seasons as Head Coach, he was too close to the offense and the team, as a whole, suffered as a result.

 

[Doomsday101]

And that is why I hate it when the mediots/bloggers look at past seasons as a whole and use season pass vs run ratios in an attempt to strengthen their agenda against Jason Garrett. The argument automatically loses credibility, because you cannot look at season stats to form conclusions that there is a secret balance that when applied over a season will lead to championships. Like you said, you have to look at each game and understand the individual situations. If you are playing from behind with a huge deficit, you cannot run the ball and expect to catch up and win. Transversley, when you are playing with a substantial lead, the last thing you want to do is it air it out - which, admittedly, Garrett has been guily of doing.

To be clear, it hasn't all been pretty and I am glad he is no longer responsible for calling the plays as the Head Coach. But that has more to with me preferring the Head Coach to maintain a birdseye view of all of the teams innerworkings, as opposed to being focused on one aspect. In his first few seasons as Head Coach, he was too close to the offense and the team, as a whole, suffered as a result.

Fully agree. As for Garrett calling plays or not, when he 1st took over and said he would do both I had no issue with it, After all you hire me to do a job then let me do it as I see fit. Now he has given up the playcalling for the most part but of course as a HC he will always have the ability to tell Linehan what he wants to do and Garrett will still be involved in the game plan that they work on through out the week. I think main reason Linehan is here is because he and Garrett know each other well and have worked with each other and I think the trust factor between the 2 will allow Linehan more freedom to run the offense.