Scout Talk: Patrick Peterson DB LSU

[Plankton]

I have Rex Ryan's book on the 46 and a copy of the 85 Bears game against Minnesota that year. The front is distinctive (it's a kind of 6-2 or 4-4) and people simply don't play it anymore. That includes Rex Ryan, because I checked.

For most folks 46 simply means "pressure defense", without recognizing that the old Buddy Ryan Bears might flash four or five different fronts throughout a game. And that's not the same as showing a dozen different blitzes out of a 3 or 4 man front.

To note, I also have a copy of the 97 Bill's playbook (i.e. when Wade Phillips was their defensive coordinator) and the 46 front is a distinct section in Wade's playbook as well.

How many times did Wade's boys run the 46, if ever?

David.

In late 2008, when the Cowboy defense played real well in December before the 4th quarter meltdown in the Texas Stadium finale, and the Eagle debacle, the Boys were running a lot of 46.

 

[Hostile]

[youtube]S1oqIK9cMTY[/youtube]

He looks like a player to me in every video I have ever seen. I think the kid has unlimited potential.

 

[BHendri5]

So you agree with me that he's RB yet you do not get where I came up with that he's more of a natural running back ?

perhaps I get it from the fact that he was mainly a RB in highschool in AZ ( 1000 yards rusher ), he was recruited AS a running back and wasn't switched to CB until after his freshman year, and mostly because the Huskers were incredibly thin at the position while very heavy at the RB position with players like Roy Helu, Quentin Castille, Cody Glenn ( who eventually switched to LB for the same reasons ), Marlon Lucky, Marcus Mendoza ( another one who eventually switch to WR then CB ), and Kenny Wilson at the time..



Prince is a solid CB, but not worth a top 10 pick in my opinion. Anything above the 12th or so, it's a reach for him. If you record Husker games, then take a look at how he played last year. This year, for some strange reason, he got the rep he got, but you know very well the Husker's schedule was very defensive back friendly. K-St, and Kansas weren't running the same type of spread offense that made Prince look like, basically, a project in those years. Colorado was a joke and when we faced better than above averages offenses like Oklahoma ST and Oklahoma, Prince was exposed. Hell, Texas even went after him and they were fielding a JV team for most of the season.

Not to mention also that Bo's defensive philsophy, which is basically man underneath with 2 deep safeties over the top, is very CB friendly. It's horrible when it comes to rushing the passer, but very friendly towards coverage..

and of course, there was this man named SUH...

Prince wasn't even regarded the best CB on the team before this year. Anthony Blue was, and players don't become " dominant " in that short of a time. Suh started showing signs as a sophomore and by his junior year he was already a beast.



You're dreaming.. Dennard is a very nice coverman, but let's see what happens this upcoming year. He has nice potential, but let's see what he does when the caliber of offense the Huskers are going to face jumps up to a much higher level.

NO, No, No. They played a lot of man to man for the last 2yrs and Prince had a very good season last season and an even better one this season. Anthony Blue, never even made it on the field, who is that anyway?

Dennard is legit, both are better than Peterson. If Prince was that good at RB, then he should have been the starter because we have not had a RB to crow about in a pretty good while.

 

[BHendri5]

So you agree with me that he's RB yet you do not get where I came up with that he's more of a natural running back ?

perhaps I get it from the fact that he was mainly a RB in highschool in AZ ( 1000 yards rusher ), he was recruited AS a running back and wasn't switched to CB until after his freshman year, and mostly because the Huskers were incredibly thin at the position while very heavy at the RB position with players like Roy Helu, Quentin Castille, Cody Glenn ( who eventually switched to LB for the same reasons ), Marlon Lucky, Marcus Mendoza ( another one who eventually switch to WR then CB ), and Kenny Wilson at the time..



Prince is a solid CB, but not worth a top 10 pick in my opinion. Anything above the 12th or so, it's a reach for him. If you record Husker games, then take a look at how he played last year. This year, for some strange reason, he got the rep he got, but you know very well the Husker's schedule was very defensive back friendly. K-St, and Kansas weren't running the same type of spread offense that made Prince look like, basically, a project in those years. Colorado was a joke and when we faced better than above averages offenses like Oklahoma ST and Oklahoma, Prince was exposed. Hell, Texas even went after him and they were fielding a JV team for most of the season.

Not to mention also that Bo's defensive philsophy, which is basically man underneath with 2 deep safeties over the top, is very CB friendly. It's horrible when it comes to rushing the passer, but very friendly towards coverage..

and of course, there was this man named SUH...

Prince wasn't even regarded the best CB on the team before this year. Anthony Blue was, and players don't become " dominant " in that short of a time. Suh started showing signs as a sophomore and by his junior year he was already a beast.



You're dreaming.. Dennard is a very nice coverman, but let's see what happens this upcoming year. He has nice potential, but let's see what he does when the caliber of offense the Huskers are going to face jumps up to a much higher level.

You talk about guys that did not get on the field at CB and if they were any good at RB, they should have easily beat out Helu and Burkhead..

Dennard is good, no dreaming here he is that good

 

[realtick]

You talk about guys that did not get on the field at CB and if they were any good at RB, they should have easily beat out Helu and Burkhead..

Dennard is good, no dreaming here he is that good

You seem to follow Nebraska closely, are you a Nebraska fan?

 

[Hostile]

You seem to follow Nebraska closely, are you a Nebraska fan?

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3805776&postcount=22

Post #22 this thread.

 

[realtick]

Always been that way, always going to be that way. I'll never get anywhere stabbing people in the back.

Fair enough.

When you have a group of scouts together you better get ready for "scout speak". There are a handful of terms that may seem "general" to most but speak volumes in the world of scouting

From what I read of the post, there was nothing in there I would call "scout speak." I read a lot of draft-time cliches' like "...he's a better athlete than player" which is similiar inanity to criticizing a QB for being "too smart...thinks too much."

I didn't read any useful specifics as to whether he struggles with man coverage vs. zone; how is he in press; what kind of receivers does he match up well with and what type does he struggle with; why don't they view him as a corner; what traits is he lacking; et cetera.

The over whelming consensus was that Peterson's future in the NFL will be made at safety but his responsibilities will need reduced in order for him use his athletic ability to make plays. The problem being as they said is that as a pure safety he's not the game changer that teams typically look for if they spend a top 10 pick on a safety.

Again, what are the reasons? How in the world do they know that he's not a game changer at safety? Seriously, I'm not arguing he is, but it's completely premature and disingenuous for them to act as if they know how he'll play at safety. Are they saying he's not intelligent? If so, why, and how did they accrue that knowledge?

One thing I did find interesting is that you mentioned all the scouts you spoke to said they view Peterson strictly as a safety and not a corner.

Not at all when answered with in the premises of the discussion. The discussion was not what makes Peterson viewed as a top 10 choice. I think we all know that, it's widely published and discussed. What we dont often hear is what does not make him a top 10 choice. If you were to read that draft sites you would assume the man has no holes in his games. Now that's strange.

Well, first SD, I think we both realize the vast majority of draft websites are not ran by scouts, but rather draftniks who parrot information they've gleamed from "pros" they think are trustworthy.

And yes, if you were to go by those draft sites, you would assume Peterson didn't have any flaws, but the same could be said about any of the Top 8-10 prospects.

 

[realtick]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3805776&postcount=22

Post #22 this thread.

Lol, he pretty much showed all his cards with that post.

 

[DHuskerCowboy]

i'm a husker fan and i would take prince at #9 with no problem best corner in the nation. not sayng that because im a fan but teams refused to throw at him

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

At 9 they better pick someone who can contribute immediately....

 

[Zaxor]

This was an interesting read. I am not in love with Peterson at CB or as a top 10 pick.

However, I do not count myself in the crowed that believes he will never be a very good Football player. I think he does have a chance to play safety in the NFL. I think he really has to work on his weight because he could out grow that position if he's not careful. The only reason I'm not in favor of a top 10 pick on him is because I absolutely believe he is a Safety and he has never played that position. There are some things he's going to have to learn and he is not an immediate starter there.

JMO

:signmast: this

 

[BAT]

Nice write up, but very very disappointing. I was hoping Peterson would be a top 5 pick, pushing Quinn down to 9.

Now I am worried. First Luck, now Peterson. The top 10 is starting to shrink in terms of true blue chippers. Not a good thing if you are sitting at 9.

 

[SDogo]

Fair enough.

I was hoping you would say that.

From what I read of the post, there was nothing in there I would call "scout speak." I read a lot of draft-time cliches' like "...he's a better athlete than player" which is similiar inanity to criticizing a QB for being "too smart...thinks too much."

I didn't read any useful specifics as to whether he struggles with man coverage vs. zone; how is he in press; what kind of receivers does he match up well with and what type does he struggle with; why don't they view him as a corner; what traits is he lacking; et cetera.

Again, what are the reasons? How in the world do they know that he's not a game changer at safety? Seriously, I'm not arguing he is, but it's completely premature and disingenuous for them to act as if they know how he'll play at safety. Are they saying he's not intelligent? If so, why, and how did they accrue that knowledge?

One thing I did find interesting is that you mentioned all the scouts you spoke to said they view Peterson strictly as a safety and not a corner.

I understand what your saying, I do. It's not what you would expect to hear from a group of scouts meeting in a room and asked to evaluate a player. Well the problem is that's exactly what it was not. First of all, in 20 years I have yet to meet a scout who is going to share his scouting report with anyone but who signs his checks. It's a sure fire way to find yourself on the unemployment line and black listed.

I also did not sit down in a room with all these scouts at once. This was a piece compiled over 2 or 3 days. My basic blanket question to these guys was to tell me why Patrick Peterson is not what he may seem to be to the average draft fan.

None of them took it as a bash session. It's not like any of them came away saying that they would under no circumstances draft Peterson or even draft him in the top 10.

Most of all, I'm to blame. I will never be confused as a professional writer unless it's in comparison to some of the Dallas media I tried to paraphrase a lot of what they said, probably left out a lot of things that would clear up some of these questions and tried to stick to the dynamics of my proposed question.

Well, first SD, I think we both realize the vast majority of draft websites are not ran by scouts, but rather draftniks who parrot information they've gleamed from "pros" they think are trustworthy.

And yes, if you were to go by those draft sites, you would assume Peterson didn't have any flaws, but the same could be said about any of the Top 8-10 prospects.

Yes, I realize that and I hope most people do which is why I often try to show "the other side" when I do these. These draft sites are the only thing the average fan has to draw up opinions and conclusions. I know as well you do that it's not always sunshine and rainbows with prospects yet 90% of these bio's make it feel as such.

 

[28 Joker]

This is a really good article. I found it some where else and saw SDogo's name on it and wondered if it was the Cowboyszone guy. I was going to post it here, but I made sure it wasn't already here. It is. Great article. It's always nice to hear what the scouts say. I think Peterson is over rated and over hyped. I think both the top CBs in this draft are over rated. It doesn't mean that they are not first rounders, though. I'm just not so sure either is worth a top 10 pick for me. That is just my opinion, especially when I think Newman has some good football left, and the Cowboys are really hurting up front on both sides of the football and at both safety spots. I would much rather rebuild inside-out like many organizations do.

The part on Eric Berry and Earl Thomas was very interesting.

 

[SDogo]

Thanks for the kudo's guys. Much appreciated!

 

[Hoofbite]

This is all pretty funny really, we've got a handful of comments from unnamed scouts, most if not all of which are very generalized criticisms without specifics. We don't hear any positives regarding his game, which is strange for a scout to do.

Now, right on que we have folks saying "well, that does it for me, I don't like him anymore."

I wonder what would happen if we had someone just post critical comments from scouts in like fashion about Prince Amakumara?

Even if he named people it's not like anyone would know who the hell they are.

Furthermore, he could just google scout names and throw those out there and no one would know the difference.

Point is, it really doesn't matter if he names anyone or not. You either believe he has the inside or you don't. Doubtful he cares either way.

 

[Rynie]

Prince Amukamara anyone?

This is who I want, but I'm also a Nebraska fan. I haven't seen much of Peterson, but I've seen quite a bit of Amukamara. He's a ball-hawk. Also, Bo Pelini is a defensive mind. Alot of defensive players come from Nebraska.

 

[SDogo]

Even if he named people it's not like anyone would know who the hell they are.

Furthermore, he could just google scout names and throw those out there and no one would know the difference.

Point is, it really doesn't matter if he names anyone or not. You either believe he has the inside or you don't. Doubtful he cares either way.

eh, you might recognize a name or two if your a hardcore draft nut.

Thing is I would prefer to be considered "credible" but I have learned a lot since I started posting on this board and the most important thing I learned is that no matter what I do or say I'm simply going to have those people who either don't trust me if you will or find it easier to just dismiss me because I'm not ESPN or NFL Network and I have come to peace with that.

An old boss used to tell me, "you cant make everyone happy all of the time but you can make some people happy some of the time" I do this for the people that enjoy it because I enjoy it. Your going to have people doubt you no matter what you do in life. I'm ok with that now. I realize I got believers in the places it matters.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Not surprised at all. Been saying it for a while -- there's a reason you don't see 220 lb cornerbacks in the NFL.

I'm a NU fan too, though probably not as serious about it as Randy White, and I'm mixed on Prince as well. Sad to say, but NU corners have a long history of disappointing. (Anyone remember Keyou Craver? Some said he was better than Newman back then.) In fairness, though, for many years the Big 8/12 was a running conference and the corners never really got tested... That's obviously not the case anymore.

And many people have opined that Dennard can be as good as Prince or very close at the next level.

I have a feeling our #9 is going to be a OT or a front seven player on defense anyway.

 

[burmafrd]

That is why there are no 280 lb OTs in the NFL that are any good (even if there is one right now)