Scout's Eye: 12 Thoughts On The Younger Players To Close Out Minicamp

jobberone

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He's likely inconsistent at things that the staff feels he should be better at this after being on the team for 5 seasons.

From watching his play I'm talking about very infrequent plays where he appeared to just not get off the count. That's exactly not consistently inconsistent but rather what I described.

And the staff didn't hesitate to play him on either side. That emphasizes my point.
 

AdamJT13

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The exact numeric difference between Sturm's results and the PFF stuff is not important when they both show Free to be the worst.

STATS LLC is a far bigger company than PFF and far more respected than PFF or Bob Sturm. And all of their statistics get checked and double checked for accuracy.

According to STATS, Tyron Smith allowed the most sacks (6.0), followed by Leary (4.0) and then Free (3.0).
 

jobberone

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Sack stats are problematic for me but I don't know what goes on with Stats LLC. If Adam says they are checked and rechecked then I believe they are as accurate as can be. It is still difficult to sometimes know who is responsible for a sack for various reasons. Statistically that should even out somewhat over time.
 

dallasdave

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Sack stats are problematic for me but I don't know what goes on with Stats LLC. If Adam says they are checked and rechecked then I believe they are as accurate as can be. It is still difficult to sometimes know who is responsible for a sack for various reasons. Statistically that should even out somewhat over time.

YOu said it, when a QB goes down and 5 guys have a hand on him, it is a tough read who got the sack.
 

SilverStarCowboy

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Weems has looked good before, no surprise for those paying attention to Pre-Season action.

Dunbar and McFadden can stay healthy? Because, if healthy, it's hard to argue that they aren't capable of being legitimate contributors in the NFL.
 

AdamJT13

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Nah. Just give them 20% of the action.

That's what I hate about the way sacks allowed are recorded. If you get beat for a sack, you got beat for a sack -- not half a sack just because someone else messed up, too. And especially not when you're double-teaming the same guy and you both get beat -- that's not half as bad as allowing a sack when you're blocking one-on-one, it's TWICE as bad.
 

Hoofbite

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STATS LLC is a far bigger company than PFF and far more respected than PFF or Bob Sturm. And all of their statistics get checked and double checked for accuracy.

According to STATS, Tyron Smith allowed the most sacks (6.0), followed by Leary (4.0) and then Free (3.0).

Just guess it has something to do with who PFF asks to do their grunt work.

ProFootballFocus.com is seeking a number of highly enthusiastic and dedicated football fans to join their analysis team.

Dedicated football fans. The fact that they can have grades for every player in the NFL in such a short period of time tells me all I need to know. They pretty much crowdsource their data.
 

jobberone

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Just guess it has something to do with who PFF asks to do their grunt work.



Dedicated football fans. The fact that they can have grades for every player in the NFL in such a short period of time tells me all I need to know. They pretty much crowdsource their data.

They're not as bad as many think. So much of stats in football are subjective by nature; some excluded of course.
 

AbeBeta

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STATS LLC is a far bigger company than PFF and far more respected than PFF or Bob Sturm. And all of their statistics get checked and double checked for accuracy.

According to STATS, Tyron Smith allowed the most sacks (6.0), followed by Leary (4.0) and then Free (3.0).

This goes to my point about how useless the sack given up stat is. We've got three sources with several different results. It doesn't really matter who we FEEL should be the most accurate - by definition, if a metric cannot be applied consistently, it cannot be a valid measure.

So what all this conflicting information suggests is that people gotta get off the sack statistic. It isn't meaningful.
 

xwalker

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I think you can weigh others' opinions and value or dismiss them as you see fit, just do it internally and not publicly. Just because you don't value a certain opinion, doesn't mean that person doesn't have the right to express it. Judge them accordingly, just don't do it on the site. Nothing good comes of that and you end up doing damage to your own credibility.

You have a good reputation as an excellent contributor and great source of knowledge and I would hate to see that ruined by the perception of an elitist attitude.

Don't want to come off as preachy, but that's just my two cents.
Ok. I'm still not certain that I completely understand the "weigh others opinions" statement. If somebody disagrees about a player, I'm going to tend to ask them if they've studied the player's game footage. I just don't see how someone can justify arguing about a player if they have not spent time reviewing the player.

I realize when challenged, that my posts can come across as arrogant. In regards to being preachy, your posts sometimes come across as just screaming/ranting when you don't like what someone is saying. Sturm used stats incorrectly. I didn't make that up. I'll work on not being arrogant if you work on considering that other posters might be correct even when you don't like it.

In regards to sacks, I'll agree that it's not an accurate statistic in terms evaluating blockers. I think it has some meaning if the number is really high or really low, but it's just not accurate down to the +/- 1 level. I think the series by Sturm was better than a number because video was provided to show exactly what happened on all of the Cowboys regular season sacks. They say a picture is worth a thousands words so I guess a 5 second video is worth 150 thousand words (1000 x 30 x 5) or whatever frame rate they are using.
 

AdamJT13

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This goes to my point about how useless the sack given up stat is. We've got three sources with several different results. It doesn't really matter who we FEEL should be the most accurate - by definition, if a metric cannot be applied consistently, it cannot be a valid measure.

So what all this conflicting information suggests is that people gotta get off the sack statistic. It isn't meaningful.

It's not meaningless, it's just subjective. Just like the stats for defensive players' targets and catches allowed, yards allowed, TDs allowed, etc. Just because different sources will come up with different numbers, that doesn't mean you throw out all of them. You just have to know which sources to trust and what to do with the numbers.
 

Stash

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Ok. I'm still not certain that I completely understand the "weigh others opinions" statement. If somebody disagrees about a player, I'm going to tend to ask them if they've studied the player's game footage. I just don't see how someone can justify arguing about a player if they have not spent time reviewing the player.

I realize when challenged, that my posts can come across as arrogant. In regards to being preachy, your posts sometimes come across as just screaming/ranting when you don't like what someone is saying. Sturm used stats incorrectly. I didn't make that up. I'll work on not being arrogant if you work on considering that other posters might be correct even when you don't like it.

I'll work on my issues if you will!


:thumbup:
 

AbeBeta

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It's not meaningless, it's just subjective. Just like the stats for defensive players' targets and catches allowed, yards allowed, TDs allowed, etc. Just because different sources will come up with different numbers, that doesn't mean you throw out all of them. You just have to know which sources to trust and what to do with the numbers.

Yes. We should just go by your perception of what the best source is. I've seen your perceptions put guys like Roy Williams in the ring of honor so, I've got a source problem here
 

AdamJT13

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Yes. We should just go by your perception of what the best source is. I've seen your perceptions put guys like Roy Williams in the ring of honor so, I've got a source problem here

I've never said anything about Roy Williams being in the ring of honor. Maybe you've got memory problems as well as source problems.
 

AdamJT13

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No. But you propped him up like no one else here.

Only when he deserved it. Unlike some people, I don't have agendas for or against any players. If they produce and play well, they deserve credit. If not, they don't.
 

AbeBeta

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Only when he deserved it. Unlike some people, I don't have agendas for or against any players. If they produce and play well, they deserve credit. If not, they don't.

That's even more subjective than sacks.

I rarely take all or nothing views of players. I'll give credit where due. But really, you gave 31 far too much credit in relation to criticism
 

AdamJT13

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That's even more subjective than sacks.

I rarely take all or nothing views of players. I'll give credit where due. But really, you gave 31 far too much credit in relation to criticism

Whatever you say, boss.
 

AbeBeta

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Whatever you say, boss.

Yes. Multiple sources give conflicting info ... Yet you wanna go with an untenable belief that it is a good measure. Good measures can be quantified and operationalized in a manner that provides consistent outcomes. Sacks allowed clearly aren't that. Yet you persist in your claims.

Wow. Talk about ignoring fact.
 
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