screw this 3-4 crap

[MichaelWinicki]

It's hard to say if Ware would be more or less likely to succeed as a 4-3 OLB. He's a 4.6 40 guy with good quickness. He probably has more physical skill than many 4-3 OLB in the NFL.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree but looking at his size I see it is about the same as Haley both in terms of height and weight so I would not rule out his effectiveness in the 4-3 based purely on his size

Very true.

 

[Doomsday101]

Very true.

People seem to get to caught up in terms of size but Haley played at 6-foot-5, 245 and did a damn fine job as a DE in the 4-3. I'm not trying to compare a rookie to one of the all time greats by any means but I'm not willing to sell Ware short of what he may accomplish in either defenses

 

[Bungarian]

The 4-3 Parcells was talking about playing is not the 4-3

It is the 3-4 played with one more person on the line. All the other players play the 3-4 defense like normal. The real 4-3 is completly different.

 

[joseephuss]

People seem to get to caught up in terms of size but Haley played at 6-foot-5, 245 and did a damn fine job as a DE in the 4-3. I'm not trying to compare a rookie to one of the all time greats by any means but I'm not willing to sell Ware short of what he may accomplish in either defenses

I should clarify. I think Ware will eventually be an effective 4-3 DE. My main concern is that he is just a rookie. He does remind me of Haley, but it is hard to make that comparison at this time. Haley was an experienced vet when he made the transition from the 3-4 in SanFran to the 4-3 in Dallas.

Rushing the passer as a 4-3 end for Ware should be the easy part. Stopping the run is where the concern is and will be the biggest part of he learning process in that position. I think he will get it, but it will take time. Parcells has said that is where is concerns are at this time as well.

Plus, while he can be a 4-3 DE, his best position at this time is a 3-4 OLB. Let's get the best out of him for now.

 

[Doomsday101]

I should clarify. I think Ware will eventually be an effective 4-3 DE. My main concern is that he is just a rookie. He does remind me of Haley, but it is hard to make that comparison at this time. Haley was an experienced vet when he made the transition from the 3-4 in SanFran to the 4-3 in Dallas.

Rushing the passer as a 4-3 end for Ware should be the easy part. Stopping the run is where the concern is and will be the biggest part of he learning process in that position. I think he will get it, but it will take time. Parcells has said that is where is concerns are at this time as well.

Plus, while he can be a 4-3 DE, his best position at this time is a 3-4 OLB. Let's get the best out of him for now.

I agree with you and for a while early in Haley career the knock on him was his play aginst the run but he proved to be effective in that area as well. Right now the only struggles I'm hearing for Ware has to do with his pass coverage as the OLB I'm sure the Cowboys will continue to work with him on that part of his game

 

[vicjagger]

Can you explain this to me? I read this elsewhere as well.

Not being funny, but with 4 guys on the line, isn't that basically a 4-3 defense?

A 3-4 often has 4 men on the line, but the 4th will be an OLB, rather than a DE. The difference between the two lies not in the number on the line, but in the positions they line up (directly across from somone, off a shoulder or in a gap), gap responsibilities and technique.

You'll find an excellent article describing these differences at www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[Hollywood Henderson]

 

[Derinyar]

I should clarify. I think Ware will eventually be an effective 4-3 DE. My main concern is that he is just a rookie. He does remind me of Haley, but it is hard to make that comparison at this time. Haley was an experienced vet when he made the transition from the 3-4 in SanFran to the 4-3 in Dallas.

Rushing the passer as a 4-3 end for Ware should be the easy part. Stopping the run is where the concern is and will be the biggest part of he learning process in that position. I think he will get it, but it will take time. Parcells has said that is where is concerns are at this time as well.

Plus, while he can be a 4-3 DE, his best position at this time is a 3-4 OLB. Let's get the best out of him for now.

His best position is one that hes learning on the fly?

 

[SALADIN]

That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.

 

[AbeBeta]

ellis
ferguson
glover
canty

ware
shanle
dat


let's roll.

Why put Ware in a role where he isn't going to have a primary responsibility of rushing the QB?

 

[dwmyers]

Well we're going to be using a 4-2-5 a lot and a 4-1-6 some.

heh, with Roy Williams in the game a 4-2-5 is basically a 4-3 anyway. That, of course, makes our base defenses a de facto 3-5-3 and a 4-4-3

David.

 

[joseephuss]

His best position is one that hes learning on the fly?

Sounds funny doesn't it. It is because it gives him the best angles to get to the QB and rushing the passer is the thing he does best. Because of his athleticism, they feel more comfortable with him learning to cover as an 3-4 OLB than standing up against the run as a 4-3 DE. It is not that he does one poorly, just he can do one better at this time. Over time I think he will learn to do both very well.

 

[junk]

A 3-4 often has 4 men on the line, but the 4th will be an OLB, rather than a DE. The difference between the two lies not in the number on the line, but in the positions they line up (directly across from somone, off a shoulder or in a gap), gap responsibilities and technique.

You'll find an excellent article describing these differences at www.footballoutsiders.com

Good point. And there are also frequently five men on the line in a 3-4 as both OLBs step on the line.

However, in this case, I think Parcells is talking about 4 actual DL on the field. My guess is some combination of Ellis, Spears, Glover, Canty and Ferguson.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Originally Posted by blindzebra
That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.

A 12 man defense would kick arse. Always a free player

 

[Canadian BoyzFan]

That looks like a 4-4 and a penalty to me.

LMAO!!!

 

[blindzebra]

Why put Ware in a role where he isn't going to have a primary responsibility of rushing the QB?

He is not going to be rushing the passer every play from 3-4 OLB either, and here is why. Teams will start bringing a TE over, sending someone in motion, running a back out on his side.

AZ flipped their TE a lot, infact on the TD fluke play where Ware hit Warner Ware jammed and released the TE, which was the main reason he got there a bit late.

FYI, Parcells said in his PC that Ware will play both DE and OLB in the 4-3.

 

[AsthmaField]

FYI, Parcells said in his PC that Ware will play both DE and OLB in the 4-3.

I'll bet Ware isn't in a OLB/4-3 role very often. IMO, his strength is rushing the passer and he'll be doing that from a OLB/3-4 position and from a DE/4-3 position.

Although you're right, he won't be rushing the passer every down he's playing 3-4 OLB... he'll have the ability to do it on any given play... something that won't be there as a 4-3 OLB.

 

[blindzebra]

I'll bet Ware isn't in a OLB/4-3 role very often. IMO, his strength is rushing the passer and he'll be doing that from a OLB/3-4 position and from a DE/4-3 position.

Although you're right, he won't be rushing the passer every down he's playing 3-4 OLB... he'll have the ability to do it on any given play... something that won't be there as a 4-3 OLB.

I guess you have never heard of a blitz?

By lining up outside of Ellis the zone blitz becomes an option on any down, and his angle from 4-3 OLB with his speed could be scary.

 

[Hollywood Henderson]

Yes, Ware can certainly rush from any poisition he plays...

The point is, he does need to be rushing & pressuring the LOS for game changing impact plays...

No TE or RB is going to be able to block him...You have to bring him at least 75% of the time to excell on D!