Seattle Seahawks 2.0

robbieruff

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Been contemplating this notion over the past few weeks of watching our team with Dak at the helm. Also, since I live on the west coast (in 49er country), I get a lot of Seahawks coverage as a rival of the local team, which has prompted this contemplation somewhat. I am now of the POV that this team appears to be looking more and more like a young Seahawks team this year than ever and want other's to weigh in with some perspective. And please don't construe this as a Dak over Tony discussion cuz it's most certainly not...that's not my agenda.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know our defense isn't completely comparable to theirs during their recent ascension (starting in Russell's rookie year) and our Oline is much much stronger than anything they've put on the field (especially once they gutted their Oline talent a couple of years ago)...nevertheless, there are some uncanny resemblances in our approach/philosophy. And I know this is a "copy cat league" but this appears to be even more profound than that. Indeed, for years we tried to "copy" the Patriots in our failed attempts to become a predominantly two-TE offense (sorry to bring up a sore subject!?! lol) but our repeated attempts have been ineffective (sarcasm). We appear to be this season on a trajectory to a remake ourselves into a Seahawks' brand of football.

Obviously, on the offensive side of the ball, Dak and Zeke offer strong comparisons to Russell and Lynch. Dak shows the movement and sound decision making of Wilson thus far as well as the ability to influence the game with his feet (both in terms of the run and pass). On that latter point, it was eye-opening for me re-watching the scoring plays in the Bengals game; you literally see that every single TD we scored was predicated on Dak's feet/movement. Whether he was manipulating the Dline on the read option or his rollout passing (or the threat thereof)...like Wilson, his mobility is playing a huge role in keeping defenses off balance. While I don't believe he will ever rush for as many yards as Wilson, Dak appears to be cut from a similar cloth. I also like how he makes "no-name" WRs look good in a similar way to Wilson (i.e., don't need a Dez in the mix to move the ball consistently). Similarly, while Zeke is certainly much more explosive/fast, there's no question that he "sets a tone" a la "Beast Mode" that seems to intimidate/demoralize defenses (I was at the Niners game and saw a lot of evidence of this on the Niners' sideline discussions in the second half, which weren't highlighted as much as during the Bengals game).

Defensively, I am sure that many of us recall Rod talking about HIS version of the "Tampa 2" was more akin to the Seattle defensive philosophy. Ironically, it took this year (and some necessity being the mother of invention issues) to see that coming more to fruition. We now have a "big" starting DE in Crawford, much more in the mold of a Michael Bennett in the Seahawk's 4-3. And with the improvements in our secondary so far this season, I think comparisons of our personnel to theirs is more and more legit. Mo is looking like a Sherman type with his early stellar play (no jinx - just now needs to get the picks), Jones is certainly proving as "rangie" as Earl Thomas at FS, which is allowing Church to be his old physical presence again. While he's certainly not at a Chancellor level, I have been impressed with Church's ability to lower the boom with more regularity (more like his pre-injury self). Sure, I will say Carr is comparable to a Brett Maxie/Joey Browner or perhaps even better. And if Jaylon comes back next season to play at a high level, don't we in fact have our Bobby Wagner to command the middle? One or two more picks next year to come in to bolster the defense, and I think we are in the conversation of becoming dominant on that side of the ball...again, playing a "Legion of Boom" brand of football.

Would love to read some other opinions/thoughts...what say you?
 

RS12

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I dont see the Dak/ Wilson comparison. Wilson likes to roll out and draw defenders to him, then throw short over those defenders. Dak is more step up in the pocket, and create with his feet when he has too. I also dont think Zeke and Beast Mode are that similar. I think Zeke is more explosive and a much better receiver and all around back, Beast Mode more down hill runner.
 

robbieruff

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The big difference is Wilson could play safe and kick FGs to win games while Dak is going to have to keep scoring TDs at a high rate to win games
I am talking about the trajectory...not the immediate here and now...are you saying that Dak will ALWAYS need to score TDs to win...that that's a constant? That our defense will NEVER improve beyond middle of the road based on what we're starting to build??? You make an absolute statement when mine was more forward looking...
 
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ghst187

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Daks height allows him to stay in the pocket more while Russell needs the rollout to see downfield
 

robbieruff

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I dont see the Dak/ Wilson comparison. Wilson likes to roll out and draw defenders to him, then throw short over those defenders. Dak is more step up in the pocket, and create with his feet when he has too. I also dont think Zeke and Beast Mode are that similar. I think Zeke is more explosive and a much better receiver and all around back, Beast Mode more down hill runner.
And Dak likes to roll out too (similarly, Wilson creates with his feet when he has to as well)...we have used him in rollout situations very similar to Wilson (designed rollouts and not just when the play breaks down)...if you watched the Bengals game closely, the Bengals defense even schemed for those designed rollouts with Dunlap rushing hard up field to disrupt them (he in fact did on one particular play). The score to Beasley was a designed rollout and the big run to Zeke for 60 yards was off of a rollout fake...the formation we were in along with the Dak early fake off the snap coupled the Witten route to the right totally fooled the Bengals into thinking it was a designed waggle...one that we've run every game...Dunlap completely bit on the play which was why the backside hole was so huge (along with stellar blocking). If the designed rollout isn't something we "typically" do according to you then why in the world would another them be clearly game planning to stop it?!!

I will grant you that Dak doesn't do it as frequently as Wilson, but designed rollouts are a standard part of the play calls when he's been in there...that's frankly pretty obvious...but don't just take my word for it...

https://thelandryhat.com/2016/08/24/former-gm-compares-cowboys-dak-prescott-russell-wilson/
 
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robbieruff

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Daks height allows him to stay in the pocket more while Russell needs the rollout to see downfield
agreed...wasn't making a height comparison but one about how their feet/mobility influences/manipulates defenses...there in lies the similarity.
 

TheHerd

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That's not true.
This is totally true. Since Wilson came into the league the Seahawks have had the #1 scoring defense every year. Dallas is middle of the road at best every year. By the end of this season after Dallas has played some explosive offenses I suspect the stats will be the same this year.

3 and outs is a push for the Seattle offense,
 

erod

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This defense? Wow. No.

Wilson likes to go downfield. Dak prefers to play safe.

This offensive line blows Seattle's away, as do these receivers.

Zeke and Lynch are comparable.
 

percyhoward

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Comparing the first 5 games of Wilson's rookie year (2012) with this season, you can appreciate just how dominant we've been offensively. Seattle only had 7 offensive touchdowns, while the Cowboys already have 15. Wilson eventually finished his rookie season with a 100.0 rating, but wasn't nearly as good out of the gate as Dak has been.

Games 1-5
Drives ending in TD

(as a percentage of total drives)
offense
2012 SEA 13.2% (30th)
2016 DAL 32.6% (3rd)

defense
2012 SEA 9.8% (1st)
2016 DAL 23.4% (18th)

Passing

2012 Wilson 79 of 125 815 yd 5 td 6 int 75.3
2016 Prescott 107 of 155 1239 yd 4 td 0 int 101.5

Rushing
2012 SEA 172 car 701 yd 4.1 ypc 2 td
2016 DAL 169 car 776 yd 4.6 ypc 11 td

For Seattle, the turning point in 2012 was a home win over the Patriots in week 6. From then on, Wilson was a different player.
163 of 268 2297 yd 21 td 4 int 111.5
 

robbieruff

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This defense? Wow. No.

Wilson likes to go downfield. Dak prefers to play safe.

This offensive line blows Seattle's away, as do these receivers.

Zeke and Lynch are comparable.
Yeah...i agree that this version of our D isn't comparable (literally said that in the OP)...I also mentioned that our Oline is much stronger...I am talking about the TRAJECTORY of where the D is potentially headed based on the early season read (along with the performance of some individual players)...more speculation about the future as opposed to an assertion of the here and now...also, talking about a comparable philosophy/approach...not saying squads are carbon copies...with respect to the D, Rod said he wanted to take a Seahawks approach...don't you agree that we're as close as we've ever been in terms of making that a reality?
 

DFWJC

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On offense, I can see it.

But really, it ends there.
So, not to be rude, but that means it's only half way similar.

A dominant defense that hold teams to only 10-11ppg means everything.
You could almost be average on offense and win with that kind of defense.

See Super Bowl winning Bears, Bucs and Ravens (with Dilfer) as examples.
Dallas would have multiple SBs in the last few years with those kinds of defenses.
 

rd26

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Seattle knocked it out of the park in '10 11 and 12. They drafted numerous elite players, largely in the late rounds. Not good players, but bona fide game changers.

Even the trade for Lynch was a 4th rounder I believe.

To this point, we have basically built our roster one stud per year, and hope Romo works his magic. That wasn't the master plan I realize, but it's what the results have been none the less.

The greatest parallel I see is the sudden potential influx of top shelf talent in this year's draft. It's at least partially dependent on luck, but so was Seattle's sudden rise.
 

robbieruff

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On offense, I can see it.

But really, it ends there.
So, not to be rude, but that means it's only half way similar.

A dominant defense that hold teams to only 10-11ppg means everything.
You could almost be average on offense and win with that kind of defense.

See Super Bowl winning Bears, Bucs and Ravens (with Dilfer) as examples.
Dallas would have multiple SBs in the last few years with those kinds of defenses.

Agreed...but as I stated, I think we get our LB's up to snuff with the return of Jaylon Smith and one or two picks to bolster, I think we honestly have a shot to finally start playing a Seattle style defense that Rod has envisioned. I think we're a year or two away but I really think we can get there. Right now, the comparison is purely speculative ABOUT THE FUTURE...not where we are current or where we've been the past few years.
 

robbieruff

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This cowboys team reminds me of the 2014 team but better. So its like cowboys 2014 v 2.0
So our QB of this year compares to that of 2014, does he? Seriously, the whole reason for the Seattle comparison is the change at QB...Dak is certainly much more comparable to Russell than Tony, is he not?
 

ghst187

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agreed...wasn't making a height comparison but one about how their feet/mobility influences/manipulates defenses...there in lies the similarity.

But I neglected to mention that I generally agree with you that they have a lot of similarities.
 
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