Sensabaugh has visits lined up — 3:30 p.m.

[jobberone]

If we could move to 15-20 we could get Earl Thomas. If he falls past 19 I wouldn't be surprised to see a move. Depends on the run on OTs, too.

 

[SDogo]

Do you think Sensabaugh will sign with another team and we get the second?
Would you mind, with the potential if it is high enough getting Nate Allen?

Write down your thoughts on this.

I think there is a 400 page thread that covers every possible opinion, suggestion, complaint and everything in between on this topic already.

 

[casmith07]

I think there is a 400 page thread that covers every possible opinion, suggestion, complaint and everything in between on this topic already.

 

[Illini88228]

Do you think Sensabaugh will sign with another team and we get the second?
Would you mind, with the potential if it is high enough getting Nate Allen?

Write down your thoughts on this.

This is the one guy on the team that I really don't have a preference either way. If he stays, I'm a happy camper. He seemed to do an admirable job last year especially considering the cast on his hand. If he goes, I think a second round pick regardless of whether it's high or low, would be a great price to fetch for him.

As far as what I think will happen, I'd say he stays. I just doubt that there's a market for a non-pro bowl type safety for that high of a pick. I mean, in years past, there hasn't been a market for players with a lot more skins on the wall than Sensy at that price.

 

[JustDezIt]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179132

/thread

 

[garyv]

Where and what Visits?

 

[Clove]

It's so funny how we had several years where the stinking safety couldn't cover, ran him out of town and now we have that in the secondary and guess what? People want both gone.

There is a reason teams want him, we're stupid enough to believe we can roll out one really good player and just roll in the next. Reminds me of the Patriots, they think they can replace anyone, how's that working out for them?

Keep the safeties, if you just HAVE to upgrade, upgrade HAMLIN and pray that it's an upgrade, cause IMO, secondary wasn't this teams problem.

 

[masomenos]

It's so funny how we had several years where the stinking safety couldn't cover, ran him out of town and now we have that in the secondary and guess what? People want both gone.

There is a reason teams want him, we're stupid enough to believe we can roll out one really good player and just roll in the next. Reminds me of the Patriots, they think they can replace anyone, how's that working out for them?

Oh, you know, they've just played in 4 of the last 9 Super Bowls and have 6 seasons of 11+ wins in the last 9 years. But yeah, other than that, and going 16-0 in the regular season one year, you're right...how is that working out for them?

 

[dbair1967]

Do you think Sensabaugh will sign with another team and we get the second?
Would you mind, with the potential if it is high enough getting Nate Allen?

Write down your thoughts on this.

No, I dont think another team will sign Sensabaugh to an offer sheet.

There might be some teams interested, but I doubt anyone is interested in parting with a 2nd for him. I know if he were on another team, I'd have absolutely zero interest in giving up our 2nd rd pick to get him here.

 

[dbair1967]

He was only thrown at 15 times in 2009, and 26 times in 2008. So, touching the ball 5 times in 41 attempts isn't actually that shocking. You'd like to see him get to the ball more often, but if it's offset by him now allowing much yardage, then that's fine.

For example, Darren Sharper, who most people would say is up there in the top safeties in the league right now, touched the ball 16 times in 76 attempts in the past two seasons. That's not significantly better, but it is better.

But then you look at their yardage given up, and Sharper gave up nearly twice as many yards as Hamlin (565 v. 335). So the question becomes -- would you like him to touch the ball more often at the expense of giving up lots of yardage?

My problem with this logic is you are doing nothing to debunk the fact that he's rarely thrown at because he's almost never in man to man coverage. His coverage responsibilities are usually playing the deep middle or providing double team help over the top. If the guy has few coverage responsibilities (he isnt guarding a specific player) then he should be able to roam around and make plays on the ball in space. Nobody touched the ball less at the FS position than Hamlin.

I ran down each teams starting FS's and looked at some of the numbers for ints and passes defensed. Only a small number (noted in bold) had numbers of pds and ints (combined) as poor as Hamlin's, and those guys played on arguably the worst defenses and worst teams in the league. The vast majority of these guys didnt play on teams as good as we were defensively, and certainly didnt have the type of pass rush and CB play that we had.

Jairus Byrd Bills. 9 ints, 11 passes defensed. (Missed two games, Rookie)
Antrell Rolle Cardinals...8 PDs, 4 picks
Erik Coleman, Falcons...0 picks, 5 PD's
Ed Reed, Ravens...5 pds, 3 picks (missed 4 full games, parts of others)
Charles Godfrey 5pds, 1 pick...(missed 4 full games, parts of a couple others and one other note his backup Sherrod Martin had 3 picks and 4 pds)
Daniel Manning, Bears...2 pds, 1 pick
Chris Crocker Bengals, 9 pds, 2 picks
Abram Elam Browns, 2 pds, 0 picks
Brian Dawkins Broncos, 11 pds, 2 picks
Louis Delmas Lions, 8 pds, 2 picks (Rookie)
Nick Collins Packers, 13 pds, 6 picks
Jon Busing Texans, 3 pds, 1 pick
Antoine Bethea 5 pds, 4 picks
Reggie Nelson Jags, 5 pds, 0 picks
Jon McGraw Chiefs, 1 pd, 1 pick
Gibril Wilson Dolphins, 8 pds, 0 picks
Madieu Williams Vikings, 8 pds, 0 picks
Brandon McGowan Pats, 5 pds, 0 picks
Darren Sharper Saints, 15 pds, 9 picks
CC Brown Giants, 3 pds, 0 picks
Kerry Rhodes Jets, 13 pds, 3 picks (was benched)
Michael Huff Raiders, 14 pds, 3 picks
Sean Jones Eagles, 5 pds, 2 picks (was 1 of 3 different starters)
Ryan Clark Steelers, 8pds, 3 picks
Eric Weddle Chargers, 7pds, 2 picks
Dashon Goldsen Niners, 6 pds, 4 picks
Jordan Babineaux Seahawks, 6pds, 2 picks
Craig Dahl Rams, 3 pds, 0 picks
Tanard Jackson Bucs, 8 pds, 5 picks (missed 4 full games)
Michael Griffin Titans, 7pds, 1 pick
Laron Landry Commanders 6 pds, 1 pick

 

[SLATEmosphere]

My problem with this logic is you are doing nothing to debunk the fact that he's rarely thrown at because he's almost never in man to man coverage. His coverage responsibilities are usually playing the deep middle or providing double team help over the top. If the guy has few coverage responsibilities (he isnt guarding a specific player) then he should be able to roam around and make plays on the ball in space. Nobody touched the ball less at the FS position than Hamlin.

I ran down each teams starting FS's and looked at some of the numbers for ints and passes defensed. Only a small number (noted in bold) had numbers of pds and ints (combined) as poor as Hamlin's, and those guys played on arguably the worst defenses and worst teams in the league. The vast majority of these guys didnt play on teams as good as we were fefensively, and certainly didnt have the type of pass rush and CB play that we had.

Jairus Byrd Bills. 9 ints, 11 passes defensed. (Missed two games, Rookie)
Antrell Rolle Cardinals...8 PDs, 4 picks
Erik Coleman, Falcons...0 picks, 5 PD's
Ed Reed, Ravens...5 pds, 3 picks (missed 4 full games, parts of others)
Charles Godfrey 5pds, 1 pick...(missed 4 full games, parts of a couple others and one other note his backup Sherrod Martin had 3 picks and 4 pds)
Daniel Manning, Bears...2 pds, 1 pick
Chris Crocker Bengals, 9 pds, 2 picks
Abram Elam Browns, 2 pds, 0 picks
Brian Dawkins Broncos, 11 pds, 2 picks
Louis Delmas Lions, 8 pds, 2 picks (Rookie)
Nick Collins Packers, 13 pds, 6 picks
Jon Busing Texans, 3 pds, 1 pick
Antoine Bethea 5 pds, 4 picks
Reggie Nelson Jags, 5 pds, 0 picks
Jon McGraw Chiefs, 1 pd, 1 pick
Gibril Wilson Dolphins, 8 pds, 0 picks
Madieu Williams Vikings, 8 pds, 0 picks
Brandon McGowan Pats, 5 pds, 0 picks
Darren Sharper Saints, 15 pds, 9 picks
CC Brown Giants, 3 pds, 0 picks
Kerry Rhodes Jets, 13 pds, 3 picks (was benched)
Michael Huff Raiders, 14 pds, 3 picks
Sean Jones Eagles, 5 pds, 2 picks (was 1 of 3 different starters)
Ryan Clark Steelers, 8pds, 3 picks
Eric Weddle Chargers, 7pds, 2 picks
Dashon Goldsen Niners, 6 pds, 4 picks
Jordan Babineaux Seahawks, 6pds, 2 picks
Craig Dahl Rams, 3 pds, 0 picks
Tanard Jackson Bucs, 8 pds, 5 picks (missed 4 full games)
Michael Griffin Titans, 7pds, 1 pick
Laron Landry Commanders 6 pds, 1 pick

 

[theogt]

My problem with this logic is you are doing nothing to debunk the fact that he's rarely thrown at because he's almost never in man to man coverage. His coverage responsibilities are usually playing the deep middle or providing double team help over the top. If the guy has few coverage responsibilities (he isnt guarding a specific player) then he should be able to roam around and make plays on the ball in space. Nobody touched the ball less at the FS position than Hamlin.

I ran down each teams starting FS's and looked at some of the numbers for ints and passes defensed. Only a small number (noted in bold) had numbers of pds and ints (combined) as poor as Hamlin's, and those guys played on arguably the worst defenses and worst teams in the league. The vast majority of these guys didnt play on teams as good as we were defensively, and certainly didnt have the type of pass rush and CB play that we had.

Jairus Byrd Bills. 9 ints, 11 passes defensed. (Missed two games, Rookie)
Antrell Rolle Cardinals...8 PDs, 4 picks
Erik Coleman, Falcons...0 picks, 5 PD's
Ed Reed, Ravens...5 pds, 3 picks (missed 4 full games, parts of others)
Charles Godfrey 5pds, 1 pick...(missed 4 full games, parts of a couple others and one other note his backup Sherrod Martin had 3 picks and 4 pds)
Daniel Manning, Bears...2 pds, 1 pick
Chris Crocker Bengals, 9 pds, 2 picks
Abram Elam Browns, 2 pds, 0 picks
Brian Dawkins Broncos, 11 pds, 2 picks
Louis Delmas Lions, 8 pds, 2 picks (Rookie)
Nick Collins Packers, 13 pds, 6 picks
Jon Busing Texans, 3 pds, 1 pick
Antoine Bethea 5 pds, 4 picks
Reggie Nelson Jags, 5 pds, 0 picks
Jon McGraw Chiefs, 1 pd, 1 pick
Gibril Wilson Dolphins, 8 pds, 0 picks
Madieu Williams Vikings, 8 pds, 0 picks
Brandon McGowan Pats, 5 pds, 0 picks
Darren Sharper Saints, 15 pds, 9 picks
CC Brown Giants, 3 pds, 0 picks
Kerry Rhodes Jets, 13 pds, 3 picks (was benched)
Michael Huff Raiders, 14 pds, 3 picks
Sean Jones Eagles, 5 pds, 2 picks (was 1 of 3 different starters)
Ryan Clark Steelers, 8pds, 3 picks
Eric Weddle Chargers, 7pds, 2 picks
Dashon Goldsen Niners, 6 pds, 4 picks
Jordan Babineaux Seahawks, 6pds, 2 picks
Craig Dahl Rams, 3 pds, 0 picks
Tanard Jackson Bucs, 8 pds, 5 picks (missed 4 full games)
Michael Griffin Titans, 7pds, 1 pick
Laron Landry Commanders 6 pds, 1 pick

What's funny is that you don't even get the inconsistency in your argument. If you think his coverage responsibilities are the reason he's not targeted much, you have to grant that his coverage responsibilities are the reason doesn't have many INTs. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This probably never even occurred to you.

 

[theogt]

My problem with this logic is you are doing nothing to debunk the fact that he's rarely thrown at because he's almost never in man to man coverage. His coverage responsibilities are usually playing the deep middle or providing double team help over the top. If the guy has few coverage responsibilities (he isnt guarding a specific player) then he should be able to roam around and make plays on the ball in space. Nobody touched the ball less at the FS position than Hamlin.

I ran down each teams starting FS's and looked at some of the numbers for ints and passes defensed. Only a small number (noted in bold) had numbers of pds and ints (combined) as poor as Hamlin's, and those guys played on arguably the worst defenses and worst teams in the league. The vast majority of these guys didnt play on teams as good as we were defensively, and certainly didnt have the type of pass rush and CB play that we had.

Jairus Byrd Bills. 9 ints, 11 passes defensed. (Missed two games, Rookie)
Antrell Rolle Cardinals...8 PDs, 4 picks
Erik Coleman, Falcons...0 picks, 5 PD's
Ed Reed, Ravens...5 pds, 3 picks (missed 4 full games, parts of others)
Charles Godfrey 5pds, 1 pick...(missed 4 full games, parts of a couple others and one other note his backup Sherrod Martin had 3 picks and 4 pds)
Daniel Manning, Bears...2 pds, 1 pick
Chris Crocker Bengals, 9 pds, 2 picks
Abram Elam Browns, 2 pds, 0 picks
Brian Dawkins Broncos, 11 pds, 2 picks
Louis Delmas Lions, 8 pds, 2 picks (Rookie)
Nick Collins Packers, 13 pds, 6 picks
Jon Busing Texans, 3 pds, 1 pick
Antoine Bethea 5 pds, 4 picks
Reggie Nelson Jags, 5 pds, 0 picks
Jon McGraw Chiefs, 1 pd, 1 pick
Gibril Wilson Dolphins, 8 pds, 0 picks
Madieu Williams Vikings, 8 pds, 0 picks
Brandon McGowan Pats, 5 pds, 0 picks
Darren Sharper Saints, 15 pds, 9 picks
CC Brown Giants, 3 pds, 0 picks
Kerry Rhodes Jets, 13 pds, 3 picks (was benched)
Michael Huff Raiders, 14 pds, 3 picks
Sean Jones Eagles, 5 pds, 2 picks (was 1 of 3 different starters)
Ryan Clark Steelers, 8pds, 3 picks
Eric Weddle Chargers, 7pds, 2 picks
Dashon Goldsen Niners, 6 pds, 4 picks
Jordan Babineaux Seahawks, 6pds, 2 picks
Craig Dahl Rams, 3 pds, 0 picks
Tanard Jackson Bucs, 8 pds, 5 picks (missed 4 full games)
Michael Griffin Titans, 7pds, 1 pick
Laron Landry Commanders 6 pds, 1 pick

Here are the rankings of these safeties in terms of PDs and INTs per times targeted. Hamlin ranks about average for starting safeties.

Name		TA	In	PD	In+PD	In+PD/
Jairus Byrd	18	9	1	10	 0.56 
Nick Collins	29	6	7	13	 0.45 
Michael Huff	35	3	11	14	 0.40 
Darren Sharper	37	9	3	12	 0.32 
Edward Reed	18	3	2	5	 0.28 
Ryan Clark	26	3	4	7	 0.27 
Charles Godfrey	18	1	3	4	 0.22 
Kerry Rhodes	36	3	5	8	 0.22 
Chris Crocker	31	2	4	6	 0.19 
Gibril Wilson	31	0	6	6	 0.19 
Antoine Bethea	26	4	1	5	 0.19 
Antrel Rolle	34	4	2	6	 0.18 
Eric Weddle	34	2	4	6	 0.18 
Madieu Williams	39	0	6	6	 0.15 
Brian Dawkins	48	2	5	7	 0.15 
John Busing	14	1	1	2	 0.14 
[COLOR="Blue"][B]Ken Hamlin	15	0	2	2	 0.13 [/B][/COLOR]
Erik Coleman	39	0	5	5	 0.13 
Michael Griffin	49	1	5	6	 0.12 
Dashon Goldson	52	4	2	6	 0.12 
Brandon McGowan	35	0	4	4	 0.11 
Jon McGraw	18	1	1	2	 0.11 
LaRon Landry	38	1	3	4	 0.11 
J. Babineaux	60	2	4	6	 0.10 
Craig Dahl	41	0	4	4	 0.10 
Reggie Nelson	41	0	4	4	 0.10 
Louis Delmas	35	2	1	3	 0.09 
C.C. Brown	33	0	2	2	 0.06 
Abram Elam	38	0	2	2	 0.05 
Danieal Manning	21	1	0	1	 0.05

Not exactly "shocking" or deserving of a "wow" is it?

Obviously, everyone would like him to climb up that list, but when you consider he's "average" in terms of making plays (i.e., INTs and PDs) and you consider he's at the very top of this crowd in terms of yards given up, we obviously have one of the better free safeties in the league.

Thanks for pointing this out. You should stick to ignoring statistics.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Here are the rankings of these safeties in terms of PDs and INTs per times targeted. Hamlin ranks about average for starting safeties.

Name        TA    In    PD    In+PD    In+PD/
Jairus Byrd    18    9    1    10     0.56 
Nick Collins    29    6    7    13     0.45 
Michael Huff    35    3    11    14     0.40 
Darren Sharper    37    9    3    12     0.32 
Edward Reed    18    3    2    5     0.28 
Ryan Clark    26    3    4    7     0.27 
Charles Godfrey    18    1    3    4     0.22 
Kerry Rhodes    36    3    5    8     0.22 
Chris Crocker    31    2    4    6     0.19 
Gibril Wilson    31    0    6    6     0.19 
Antoine Bethea    26    4    1    5     0.19 
Antrel Rolle    34    4    2    6     0.18 
Eric Weddle    34    2    4    6     0.18 
Madieu Williams    39    0    6    6     0.15 
Brian Dawkins    48    2    5    7     0.15 
John Busing    14    1    1    2     0.14 
[COLOR=Blue][B]Ken Hamlin    15    0    2    2     0.13 [/B][/COLOR]
Erik Coleman    39    0    5    5     0.13 
Michael Griffin    49    1    5    6     0.12 
Dashon Goldson    52    4    2    6     0.12 
Brandon McGowan    35    0    4    4     0.11 
Jon McGraw    18    1    1    2     0.11 
LaRon Landry    38    1    3    4     0.11 
J. Babineaux    60    2    4    6     0.10 
Craig Dahl    41    0    4    4     0.10 
Reggie Nelson    41    0    4    4     0.10 
Louis Delmas    35    2    1    3     0.09 
C.C. Brown    33    0    2    2     0.06 
Abram Elam    38    0    2    2     0.05 
Danieal Manning    21    1    0    1     0.05

Not exactly "shocking" or deserving of a "wow" is it?

Combine that with him being at the top of this crowd in terms of yards given up, we have ourself one of the better free safeties in the league.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Do you think his play warrants his contract?

 

[theogt]

Do you think his play warrants his contract?

What someone deserves or "warrants" is hard to define. I think he's a key piece to the performance of our defense and I think that warrants taking steps necessary to keep him around. I think his value might have been inflated when we signed him because people tend to inflate the value of INTs and he had a lot of INTs that season.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What someone deserves or "warrants" is hard to define. I think he's a key piece to the performance of our defense and I think that warrants taking steps necessary to keep him around. I think his value might have been inflated when we signed him because people tend to inflate the value of INTs and he had a lot of INTs that season.

So with saying that, and his INTs being down,

significantly

You still see a reason for keeping him around at that price?

Doesn't his contract call for him to average around 6 mil per season?

 

[theogt]

So with saying that, and his INTs being down,

significantly

You still see a reason for keeping him around at that price?

Doesn't his contract call for him to average around 6 mil per season?

If his contract doesn't hinder us in any way, then absolutely I want to keep him around. It'd be remarkably stupid to get rid of him.

He will make $5.5 million 2010 and $5 million in 2011. That's only slightly above average for a starting NFL player (which, if I recall correctly, is around $4 million).

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If his contract doesn't hinder us in any way, then absolutely I want to keep him around. It'd be remarkably stupid to get rid of him.

He will make $5.5 million 2010 and $5 million in 2011. That's only slightly above average for a starting NFL player (which, if I recall correctly, is around $4 million).

I think his contract would be top 5 among safeties. Say if you were to franchise a safety.

Updated: February 21, 2008, 5:01 PM ET
Hamlin made Cowboys' franchise player
Associated Press


IRVING, Texas -- The Dallas Cowboys designated Ken Hamlin their franchise player on Thursday, locking up the Pro Bowl safety through at least next season.
The move essentially means Hamlin has a one-year contract at the average base salary of the top five safeties in the NFL: $4.4 million. It also keeps the unrestricted free agent off the market and extends the window to negotiate a long-term contract.
Hamlin made his first Pro Bowl during the Cowboys' 13-3 season. He finished with 62 tackles and five interceptions, one behind team leader Anthony Henry.


Of course that was back in 2008

 

[TheCount]

So with saying that, and his INTs being down,

significantly

You still see a reason for keeping him around at that price?

Doesn't his contract call for him to average around 6 mil per season?

You're wasting your time.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

You're wasting your time.

For real.