Sentiment Change -Enter Joe Philbin

[ElGatoGrande]

Nope.

Philbin refused to develop Connor Williams at center. CW is now the highest rated center in NFL his 1st year playing center. For the Fins.

All of those are damning but this is the worst.

 

[CowboyRoy]

For the last couple of years many us have contributed the average / below average line play as a direct result of Philbin's coaching and scheme. The line has went through a significant transition from what it use to be.

My question is

Considering the progress of Steele(undrafted), Smith, Biadiaz, and Farniok(7th round), does Philbin finally get to see some love on these boards? Regardless of what actually happens, has he done enough to earn another year from the zone?

I never thought he was doing a bad job. You have people that dont understand the concept of talent, injuries, and the coaches ability to do anything about it.

 

[quickccc]

Fan takes mean zero in that building but Philbin did not do as much to develop Steele as we want think according to Duke. Steele has invested his own time and money with Duke and others to develop himself.
Farniok has not been good. He's a sound backup but his play has been below replacement level.
Philbin's biggest contribution is his relationship with MM and how he provides him with some familiarity and a loyal soldier.

End of day results matter long term.
IF Philbin was in big on Tyler Smith then he deserves real credit.
If not then he is likely very replaceable as an OL coach but may provide enough soft benefit to retire here.
MM and Philbin are likely tied together in results from this year.

Did we hear reports or whispers that Joe Philibin was not in favored of the Tyler Smith pick in the first round but
the personnel guys were not hearing it ?

 

[jterrell]

Did we hear reports or whispers that Joe Philibin was not in favored of the Tyler Smith pick in the first round but
the personnel guys were not hearing it ?

Yes, we did but I am gonna stay out of that as it was just rumor.

 

[Verdict]

I think whatever the line is doing is in spite of Philbin, not because of him. I tend to agree with a prior post that says we haven’t had an elite OL coach since Callahan.

My opinion, like most posters is based on uninformed perception, but that’s my take on it.

 

[TheCoolFan]

People overrate the impact and duties of an OL coach (or any position coach). They can only follow what the HC and OC want them to do but they're not going to magically make players look great when the personnel/scheme/playcalling is not good.

I remember when Sanjay Lal was the WR coach in 2018-2019 and everyone put a lot of blame on him whenever the offense would struggle

 

[glimmerman]

I think the line play is good despite philibin. We need to power run. Not sure if we started doing that or not. Zone blocking don’t work around these parts..

 

[VaqueroTD]

Philbin thinks linemen are robots. Has no instinct for the position.

 

[75boyz]

For the last couple of years many us have contributed the average / below average line play as a direct result of Philbin's coaching and scheme. The line has went through a significant transition from what it use to be.

My question is

Considering the progress of Steele(undrafted), Smith, Biadiaz, and Farniok(7th round), does Philbin finally get to see some love on these boards? Regardless of what actually happens, has he done enough to earn another year from the zone?

IF there is sustained consistency. Last year's first half to the season looked impressive as well.
Whether you wanna chalk it up to injury or shuffling pieces around, I thought the job he did down the stretch last year was poor.

I need to see the o-line perform as the constant good to be expected standard before I can sign off on improved coaching.

For 2 games now? Yes.

But give me a full season or 3.

jmo

 

[Rayman70]

Philbin actually deserves a medal for the last 2 years. The guy gets it done. I like him.

 

[Rayman70]

We haven't had a OL coach since Callahan left.

I admit, I much prefer Bill C. That said, philbin has done a nice job this year and last. We could do alot worse.

 

[xwalker]

Nope.

Philbin oversaw the most penalized OL the last 2 seasons. And counting.

Philbin refused to develop Connor Williams at center. CW is now the highest rated center in NFL his 1st year playing center. For the Fins.

Philbin has poor feel for how to use his players. The musical chairs at the end of last season was instrumental in #1 offense falling off a cliff.

Philbin didn't want to draft Tyler.

Philbin had McGovern ahead of Tyler at LG.

And the final nail in coffin is Cowboys OL are playing so much better after going to man-power and away from Philbin's preferred ZBS scheme.

For the last couple of years many us have contributed the average / below average line play as a direct result of Philbin's coaching and scheme. The line has went through a significant transition from what it use to be.

My question is

Considering the progress of Steele(undrafted), Smith, Biadiaz, and Farniok(7th round), does Philbin finally get to see some love on these boards? Regardless of what actually happens, has he done enough to earn another year from the zone?

I'm on the fence with regards to Philbin.
- Better than Columbo or the guy from the Bengals (Paul Alexander)
- Frank Pollack was ok when players coached by Bill Callahan were still playing, but failed some of those players departed.
- Bill Callahan was the best Cowboys coach in the Garrett era. Philbin will never be on that level, in my opinion.

• Pro
  • They're playing well now. Maybe he just needed time.
    • They're doing it with a rookie LT, 2nd year 7th round pick, 3rd year 4th, ZM and 3rd year UDFA.
    • It's not pretty with Farniok, but he is playing well enough to win games.
  • The scheme has evolved. They're pulling and effectively using TEs and WRs to hold the end of the line on outside runs, etc..
  • He was correct in 2021 that Connor Williams was better than McGovern.
    • The change to McGovern for 4 games was obviously McCarthy or upper management.
  • Tyler has had far less penalty issues than he had in college.

• Con
  • In 2020 & 2021 the scheme was vanilla and didn't give them an advantage.
  • Connor Williams didn't have significant penalty issues until 2021.
    • Did Philbin teach him the Green Bay holding method?

• Undecided
  • They tried Connor Williams at OC. There were many meltdown threads here at CZ about his bad shotgun snaps.
    • It's early to anoint CW as the top rated OC. Biadasz was getting accolades in his first half season of starts.
  • Hard to know the exact details about opinions with regards to drafting Tyler.
    • The players Philbin reportedly liked were drafted before Tyler.
  • McGovern over Tyler in camp. Tyler started at LG in the preseason games. McGovern played RG.
    • Tyler practiced as many snaps at LG as he would have if he was '1st string' in camp.
  • Reason for Penalties.
    • La'el had almost as many penalties per snap played as CW.
      • Hard to blame that on Philbin because La'el was a 2nd contract veteran.
    • Did coaching cause Connor Williams drastic increase in penalties for 2021? Maybe.
    • The defense also led the league in penalties in 2021. Maybe a Head Coach issue more than OL coach.
    • Tyler has less penalties per game than in college.
  • Maybe Philbin is better when he starts with a rookie than starting with existing players like CW, La'el and McGovern.

 

[BAT]

Wow. That's a ton of benefit of the doubt for Philbin.

Philbin and McCarthy BOTH stated that Tyler was behind McGovern at LG going into last preseason game.



And all those OL that Philbin preferred over Tyler are not performing nearly as well even though they were all drafted earlier.

Tyler's success imo is owed to Tyler himself, his attitude, his work ethic, offseason programs before joining Cowboys and the NFL players who've chosen to mentor him.

Tyler is self motivated to be a great one, Philbin had zero to do with that hunger or his ultra aggressive physicality.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...ill-learning-nowhere-near-where-i-want-to-be/


In any event, Tyler is still not nearly as dominant at pass blocking as he is at run blocking. This was also issue in college. So not a lot has changed other than the penalties.



And finally, Cowboys OL are playing better as a unit and individually after Cowboys went back to man-power blocking which was not Philbin's specialty or preference.

I'm on the fence with regards to Philbin.
- Better than Columbo or the guy from the Bengals (Paul Alexander)
- Frank Pollack was ok when players coached by Bill Callahan were still playing, but failed some of those players departed.
- Bill Callahan was the best Cowboys coach in the Garrett era. Philbin will never be on that level, in my opinion.

• Pro
  • They're playing well now. Maybe he just needed time.
    • They're doing it with a rookie LT, 2nd year 7th round pick, 3rd year 4th, ZM and 3rd year UDFA.
    • It's not pretty with Farniok, but he is playing well enough to win games.
  • The scheme has evolved. They're pulling and effectively using TEs and WRs to hold the end of the line on outside runs, etc..
  • He was correct in 2021 that Connor Williams was better than McGovern.
    • The change to McGovern for 4 games was obviously McCarthy or upper management.
  • Tyler has had far less penalty issues than he had in college.

• Con
  • In 2020 & 2021 the scheme was vanilla and didn't give them an advantage.
  • Connor Williams didn't have significant penalty issues until 2021.
    • Did Philbin teach him the Green Bay holding method?

• Undecided
  • They tried Connor Williams at OC. There were many meltdown threads here at CZ about his bad shotgun snaps.
    • It's early to anoint CW as the top rated OC. Biadasz was getting accolades in his first half season of starts.
  • Hard to know the exact details about opinions with regards to drafting Tyler.
    • The players Philbin reportedly liked were drafted before Tyler.
  • McGovern over Tyler in camp. Tyler started at LG in the preseason games. McGovern played RG.
    • Tyler practiced as many snaps at LG as he would have if he was '1st string' in camp.
  • Reason for Penalties.
    • La'el had almost as many penalties per snap played as CW.
      • Hard to blame that on Philbin because La'el was a 2nd contract veteran.
    • Did coaching cause Connor Williams drastic increase in penalties for 2021? Maybe.
    • The defense also led the league in penalties in 2021. Maybe a Head Coach issue more than OL coach.
    • Tyler has less penalties per game than in college.
  • Maybe Philbin is better when he starts with a rookie than starting with existing players like CW, La'el and McGovern.

 

[CWR]

For the last couple of years many us have contributed the average / below average line play as a direct result of Philbin's coaching and scheme. The line has went through a significant transition from what it use to be.

My question is

Considering the progress of Steele(undrafted), Smith, Biadiaz, and Farniok(7th round), does Philbin finally get to see some love on these boards? Regardless of what actually happens, has he done enough to earn another year from the zone?

I said it earlier, but he seems to do more with less. 2021 the line was sucking. Now we lose LC, Tyron, and McGovern and the line play has improved. Philbin has me confused, more than normal.

 

[charron]

Philbin doesn't get credit for steele. Steele had his own trainer he worked with to get better. I'm sure someone posted the guys name but i forget who he was.

Philbin does get credit for seeing the entire line take a step back since he's been in charge. The run game has been very hit and miss, pass blocking not always on point.

 

[BAT]

Yep, Tyler owes it all to Philbin.

 

[BAT]

Tyler giving all the credit to Philbin ... wait ... what???

 

[Motorola]

Clearly it's McCarthy inserting himself to address the offensive line and providing his expertise.

And / or perhaps the other coaches that work with the Oline-offense provided some imput for improvement.

 

[Motorola]

Tyler giving all the credit to Philbin ... wait ... what???

Refreshing to hear a rookie accept advice and mentoring from an accomplished NFL veteran - and acknowlege it.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Some say the coaching is only as good as the players. Good players make the coaches look good, we know that. But this time it's a combination between the two. Everyone involved is working toward a common goal.