Serious Carson Wentz Question

[Bigdog]

Watch the tape for yourself. Unlike Goff, hes legit.

So is Goff

 

[YosemiteSam]

Look and ye shall see.

 

[texbumthelife]

Calling Wentz legit and saying Goff isn't... someone skipped all their logic and reasoning classes.

 

[Leadbelly]

You had a pretty interesting argument going until you compared him to Andy Dalton. If Tennessee could have drafted Dalton at 8th Overall instead of Jake Locker, knowing what we know today, they'd have done it in a heart beat.

I feel like that says more about how Locker shouldn't have been drafted that high either.

Dalton definitely exceeded his valuation but, outside of Cam, none of the QBs in that year should have been drafted ahead of guys like Tyron Smith, Watt, Quinn, Pouncey, Kerrigan, etc. Tennessee missed out on perennial pro bowlers by being QB desperate and seeing what they wanted to see in QB prospects who showed very little. Dalton succeeding doesn't really change the risk/reward ratio. If we were picking 15-20, i'm there. But 4th overall, too many top players from premier programs for me to go with a FCS QB who never really dominated his level.

But I do reserve the right to rue hard if Wentz turns out to be good.

 

[Bigdog]

Calling Wentz legit and saying Goff isn't... someone skipped all their logic and reasoning classes.

So true. Either one would be a good pick

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

The hardest position to predict is to draw your line in the sand.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

No one knew who Rothlisberger and Flacco were until they became eligible for the draft, outside of the scouts.

 

[Macnalty]

I haven't really watched any tape on him. (Wentz that is) It's funny that you mention Dontari Poe though. I remember that and when I watched tape on him, he definitely didn't fit the mold. That said, out of the gate he did make some noise which surprised me. Then he went in the toilet just like I predicted. (****, I hate patting myself on the back! )

Which Dontari Poe have you been watching? Poe was worth his first-round slot because he is the rare enormous human being who can also run like a deer, a really fat deer, but a deer on the Dline. He doesn't have to come out on passing downs because even though his listed weight is 346 pounds -- which probably means he is a lot closer to 360 during the season -- he is still explosive enough and quick enough to be able to get pressure with power, as well as with finesse.
Wentz IMO is not a franchise QB, I know my limitation enough to realize that my talent for evaluating QB's in Rd 1 is not a attribute I proselytize and have confidence in Valley Ranch to make the difficult choices of win now with Tony vertical or plan for the future.

 

[CCBoy]

Serious question -- when did this guy get this label?

I'm always a little leery of guys who fly up the draft board due to what is essentially media hype out of nowhere. Dontari Poe comes to mind a few years ago...

What exactly are people seeing from watching the games and other things that makes them think this guy has what it takes for the NFL, despite playing against clearly inferior talent?

It would make more sense to me if anybody knew his name before January, but I had heard absolutely no buzz about him until then. Anybody got some real insight?

Sport is an endeavor of progressions. At the collegiate levels, one can easily see function, timeliness, and mental process that would allow further development at the professional levels.

What those projections can not duplicate, is the reality of that degree of violence and explosiveness...and that does take time to adjust within.

A person just doesn't rise to that level of projection, unless he does meet the eye test of many people. Again based upon no more than an experienced reference to change into the professional ranks. The talent is there; the mental side is there; and the commitment is there for this young player. What now has to occur, is adjusting through a maze of schemes, coaching groups, and team elements of ability to support. Now, the winning has to be upon the field...and not in the accumulated press that by nature has to embellish the potentials of change going into the sport. That is just the nature of the beast.

What is hard to note, is the commitment to sport of the youthful athlete...or his ethical base that will affect how well he can be a leader and water the aspects of team that become actually successful.

Oh, a kid just like Wentz, has the talent and disciplined skills to be a NFL quarterback. He has some good qualities in throwing, that could be directed to successes in that NFL. There is a growth at the NFL level. If much of that is intensely defensive...well, his learning path is restricted. An old pro is just that, but with wisdom gained...and whether the tutelage is underfire or observed experience, there is a difference. The experiences on the carpet determine actual path, but this kid has a good chance to succeed, and at this point in path...a good chance. He's worth a gamble, but wisdom goes with the very best option for the team as it is today. That part is trying to win, now.

Bill Parcells loved the quote...it is, what it is.

 

[CCBoy]

Von Miller was considering good before the combine, only to sky rocket to the top and become the 2nd overall pick.

LIttle did he know that Dancing With The Stars was in his future....

 

[YosemiteSam]

Which Dontari Poe have you been watching? Poe was worth his first-round slot because he is the rare enormous human being who can also run like a deer, a really fat deer, but a deer on the Dline. He doesn't have to come out on passing downs because even though his listed weight is 346 pounds -- which probably means he is a lot closer to 360 during the season -- he is still explosive enough and quick enough to be able to get pressure with power, as well as with finesse.
Wentz IMO is not a franchise QB, I know my limitation enough to realize that my talent for evaluating QB's in Rd 1 is not a attribute I proselytize and have confidence in Valley Ranch to make the difficult choices of win now with Tony vertical or plan for the future.

BUST.

 

[casmith07]

Watch the tape for yourself. Unlike Goff, hes legit.

I've watched it. I don't see what others are seeing, at least not to warrant "best in draft" talk. Goff appears much more NFL ready if he were forced to start this year. Wentz has the tools, I think, but not the tools to fly up to No. 2 in the draft.

Also reminds me of Blake Bortles. Out of nowhere because the media got together and decided "we're gonna help this guy make an extra $15M?"

It's just weird to me, man.

 

[casmith07]

Carson Wentz QB North Dakota St
CONCERNS
Carson is the whole offense for his college team and physically he is up to that challenge, but mentally he lacks the true leadership skills that he will need at the next level to be successful. What is it that Carson lacks you ask? He lacks the ability to demand more from his teammates on the field. Carson might be too nice of a person. He also does what all quarterbacks coming out of college do: stares down receivers, doesn’t consistently look off defensive backs, and struggles to slide in the pocket, reset and make a throw without being on the run. He can learn to overcome all the physical concerns, but as far as being too nice and not demanding of others, as long as he is winning this is not a problem. However, his team starts to lose a lot and in bunches, it becomes a big issue.

See, this too though - those leadership comments are a complete crock of ****. I watched the Senior Bowl practices and watched the game itself, and watched interviews with him, etc. He's well-spoken, personable, has a good sense of humor, and confidence.

I guess someone was right in this thread -- I need to maybe watch the tapes more than twice. I mean, I wish I had the benefit of a tape system that I could hit rewind over and over like Jon Gruden in his QB classroom stuff on TV.

I did see him fail to reset his feet to make throws a lot, though. I don't know. I just didn't hear anybody talking about him and he's been starting since his junior year. Why wasn't he a prospect to come out then if he's as good as Mariota or Winston? (That commentary is simply absurd, sorry.)

 

[casmith07]

Draft cant get here soon enough. I am starting to suffer from franchise QB debate burnout.

I agree entirely. And I hate that the first round is one night and its over. I miss the old system of at least the first two rounds in Day 1.

 

[casmith07]

No one knew who Rothlisberger and Flacco were until they became eligible for the draft, outside of the scouts.

Yeah, Flacco is another one that made no sense at the time, but he ended up being pretty good.

I watched Roethlisberger in college - he's a surprise one too. Came out of nowhere mostly because he played in a spread/read system at Miami (OH).

 

[CCBoy]

Yeah, Flacco is another one that made no sense at the time, but he ended up being pretty good.

I watched Roethlisberger in college - he's a surprise one too. Came out of nowhere mostly because he played in a spread/read system at Miami (OH).

Even Brady had a similar element to his collegiate play, guts and leadership. Discipline of technique is tougher at the collegiate levels. It takes really great coaching to establish that at the professional levels and maintain winning with young players.