Serious question for Dak haters

[TheMarathonContinues]

I don't know how else to break it down to you that paying zeke what he got was not a detriment to the team.

How was it not? How about you break it down to me?

Let's for instance say they drafted Clyde Edwards-Helaire....] has a average salary of 2.7 million.

Zeke has a average salary of 15 million per year on his deal.

What math are you using that tells you those numbers are remotely close?

 

[Ranched]

Meanwhile in Philly....

 

[InTheZone]

How was it not? How about you break it down to me?

Let's for instance say they drafted Clyde Edwards-Helaire....] has a average salary of 2.7 million.

Zeke has a average salary of 15 million per year on his deal.

What math are you using that tells you those numbers are remotely close?

So we're going to compare rb to rb now? First it was Dak vs zeke, now it's about a guy I know nothing about vs zeke? Should I focus on drafting a cheap average rb or do you want to compare a 7% vs 20% cap hit? Never mind the fact that our offense is already paid through the roof compared to most teams in the league, how does paying Dak make us better? Are we expected to hit on defensive starters then pay them? We already lost Byron Jones, surely there'll be a whole lot more if we ever find more young solid defensive players.

 

[kwcool619]

Not a hater. Just think he's in the mold of Alex Smith, Casey Keenum, Ryan Tannehill, Kirk Cousins.

Those aren't "bad" quarterbacks; they just aren't elite.

Furthermore, Dallas Cowboys quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls. So the standard for this team is a bit skewed when it involves ranking "greatness" among quarterbacks. And Dak, unfortunately and fortunately, has a standard he has to live up to being a Cowboys quarterback. If he were playing for Detroit, it would be a different story.

As what would change my mind: I think that goes without saying. He has to lead this team to a Super Bowl. He has to make significant plays that show he's worthy of the Staubach, Aikman mantle.

I simply do see that yet.

But I'm pulling for him. I love his determination and his DURABILITY.

Spot on....Ryan Tannehill led the Titans to the AFC Championship game last season and Alex Smith led the 49ers to the NFC Championship game in 2011. Let's marinate on that for a moment...Dak needs to play bigger in the Next Level games.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So we're going to compare rb to rb now? First it was Dak vs zeke, now it's about a guy I know nothing about vs zeke? Should I focus on drafting a cheap average rb or do you want to compare a 7% vs 20% cap hit? Never mind the fact that our offense is already paid through the roof compared to most teams in the league, how does paying Dak make us better? Are we expected to hit on defensive starters then pay them? We already lost Byron Jones, surely there'll be a whole lot more if we ever find more young solid defensive players.

Cowboys didn't lose Byron they let him go. You guys need to let that go too. Whatever money they gave Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe and Haha Clinton Dix they could've gave it to Byron.

And you are missing my point. We are talking about managing the cap right? You are looking at it as 20 vs 7....but its 27 vs 20.

And like I said I'm not concerned with the cap like you guys are. I know the Cowboys can restructure and do whatever they need to do sign guys. You guys are the ones that pretend like you are really concerned with the salary cap when you know the Cowboys SUCK in free agency to begin with.

And the Cowboys have everyone under salary.

If Dak signs a 3 or 4 year deal....who on earth is up for a new contract that deserves one in that span? Everyone is locked up. Only guy is Michael Gallup and if we are talking about "cap management" than we need to probably discuss Amari Cooper's deal.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Not a hater. Just think he's in the mold of Alex Smith, Casey Keenum, Ryan Tannehill, Kirk Cousins.

Those aren't "bad" quarterbacks; they just aren't elite.

Furthermore, Dallas Cowboys quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls. So the standard for this team is a bit skewed when it involves ranking "greatness" among quarterbacks. And Dak, unfortunately and fortunately, has a standard he has to live up to being a Cowboys quarterback. If he were playing for Detroit, it would be a different story.

As what would change my mind: I think that goes without saying. He has to lead this team to a Super Bowl. He has to make significant plays that show he's worthy of the Staubach, Aikman mantle.

I simply do see that yet.

But I'm pulling for him. I love his determination and his DURABILITY.

Those are bad quarterbacks though lol. I guess except maybe Alex Smith when healthy I wouldn't call him bad but the rest of those guys have been bad the majority of their careers.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Spot on....Ryan Tannehill led the Titans to the AFC Championship game last season and Alex Smith led the 49ers to the NFC Championship game in 2011. Let's marinate on that for a moment...Dak needs to play bigger in the Next Level games.

Tannenhill didn't lead ANYTHING lol. And neither did Alex Smith. You guys are having revisionist history.

 

[InTheZone]

Cowboys didn't lose Byron they let him go. You guys need to let that go too. Whatever money they gave Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe and Haha Clinton Dix they could've gave it to Byron.

And you are missing my point. We are talking about managing the cap right? You are looking at it as 20 vs 7....but its 27 vs 20.

And like I said I'm not concerned with the cap like you guys are. I know the Cowboys can restructure and do whatever they need to do sign guys. You guys are the ones that pretend like you are really concerned with the salary cap when you know the Cowboys SUCK in free agency to begin with.

And the Cowboys have everyone under salary.

If Dak signs a 3 or 4 year deal....who on earth is up for a new contract that deserves one in that span? Everyone is locked up. Only guy is Michael Gallup and if we are talking about "cap management" than we need to probably discuss Amari Cooper's deal.

Lets say Dak gets paid and demands even more in 3-4 years. Gallup and CeeDee will be due as well.

If Dak needs all world talent around him to only bring up these discussions after a win you think we can just keep sacrificing our better young defensive players to make sure the offense remains paid and we can just keep going with patchwork on defense?

I'm sick of not having a defense and I don't want to see a non generational high pay QB or any overpayed average talent, which zeke is not, holding us back. Paying Dak does not make us contenders, it's that simple.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Lets say Dak gets paid and demands even more in 3-4 years. Gallup and CeeDee will be due as well.

If Dak needs all world talent around him to only bring up these discussions after a win you think we can just keep sacrificing our better young defensive players to make sure the offense remains paid and we can just keep going with patchwork on defense?

I'm sick of not having a defense and I don't want to see a non generational high pay QB or any overpayed average talent, which zeke is not, holding us back. Paying Dak does not make us contenders, it's that simple.

I'm not concerned with after 3 or 4 years though because the salary cap SHOULD be even bigger by then. So much can happen by then....we don't even know if Amari, Zeke, Jaylon, Tyron or Zack Martin will even be here 4 years from now. I'm more so concerned with this year and next and as of now no one needs a new deal.

You can be sick of not having a defense all you want but this team had no defense when Dak was on his rookie deal. This team has never had a defense.

You want to be sick of this defense tell this team to stop wasting draft picks on guys with injured necks and knees. Or if they do make sure they aren't 1st and 2nd round picks. Or better yet tell them to stop trading away from safeties.


I'm not hard on this team about their personnel because I like it but if ew are holding them accountable and asking them not to get cute in the draft.....

This team would be sitting here with TJ Watt at defensive end or Buddha Baker at safety. Or Juan Thornhill at safety. That is not a reflection on the salary cap......

 

[InTheZone]

I'm not concerned with after 3 or 4 years though because the salary cap SHOULD be even bigger by then. So much can happen by then....we don't even know if Amari, Zeke, Jaylon, Tyron or Zack Martin will even be here 4 years from now. I'm more so concerned with this year and next and as of now no one needs a new deal.

You can be sick of not having a defense all you want but this team had no defense when Dak was on his rookie deal. This team has never had a defense.

You want to be sick of this defense tell this team to stop wasting draft picks on guys with injured necks and knees. Or if they do make sure they aren't 1st and 2nd round picks. Or better yet tell them to stop trading away from safeties.


I'm not hard on this team about their personnel because I like it but if ew are holding them accountable and asking them not to get cute in the draft.....

This team would be sitting here with TJ Watt at defensive end or Buddha Baker at safety. Or Juan Thornhill at safety. That is not a reflection on the salary cap......

ok lets ignore the future. Paying Dak (breaking the bank), to me, means more of the same. Dak rolls when everything is just right, but paying him doesn't mean we're in better shape to succeed. We can revisit this after every L and W this season and my opinion probably won't change. If he plays strong INTO the playoffs and throughout, whole different story.

But what about your point with Zeke and some cheap substitute? Would you be fine with a cheap substitute for Dak? I would, because I'm only looking at what we do on offense and Dak isn't using his feet like decisive runners do so it shouldn't be hard to find a decent passer that may or may not be better, but I'll take my chance considering our offense remains the focal point of the team.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

ok lets ignore the future. Paying Dak (breaking the bank), to me, means more of the same. Dak rolls when everything is just right, but paying him doesn't mean we're in better shape to succeed. We can revisit this after every L and W this season and my opinion probably won't change. If he plays strong INTO the playoffs and throughout, whole different story.

But what about your point with Zeke and some cheap substitute? Would you be fine with a cheap substitute for Dak? I would, because I'm only looking at what we do on offense and Dak isn't using his feet like decisive runners do so it shouldn't be hard to find a decent passer that may or may not be better, but I'll take my chance considering our offense remains the focal point of the team.

Let's not ignore the future but you can't stress out about what this team will look like 4 years from now...who saw Fredericks being retired? Hell who saw Lawrence looking like this 4 years ago? You are concerned with something that's not even worth concerning over. The salary cap will be increased in 4 years and I'm pretty sure a few of our big money guys will no longer be on this team. I can't see Tyron and Zack Martin playing at a high level 4 years from now and Cooper probably won't behave.


To answer your question I trust this team to find running back before I do a quarterback. They found Pollard they drafted Zeke and they drafted Demarco Murray. Goofed on Joseph Randle. I like those odds as opposed to drafting Stephen McGee and trying to draft Paxton Lynch, Johnny Football and Connor Cook. Just saying........

 

[kwcool619]

Tannenhill didn't lead ANYTHING lol. And neither did Alex Smith. You guys are having revisionist history.

I will agree to disagree.

My focus was just on the QBs under center since the question was about Dak haters. I know that Vrabel's coaching, Derrick Henry, the Titan offensive line and the defense led the Titans. Tannehill was a complementary part of the offense. He just made timely throws.

Smith-- Harbaugh called a great game vs the Saints. He gambled on the final drive. Many (including me) thought that Harbaugh was going for a FG with 10 seconds to go to tie. He had the balls to go for the win. Smith just managed the game like he was paid to do.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I will agree to disagree.

My focus was just on the QBs under center since the question was about Dak haters. I know that Vrabel's coaching, Derrick Henry, the Titan offensive line and the defense led the Titans. Tannehill was a complementary part of the offense. He just made timely throws.

Smith-- Harbaugh called a great game vs the Saints. He gambled on the final drive. Many (including me) thought that Harbaugh was going for a FG with 10 seconds to go to tie. He had the balls to go for the win. Smith just managed the game like he was paid to do.

Alright I don't disagree. I thought you were insinuating those guys actually led them. They were complimentary pieces. I think the goal is for Dak to be much more than that. Like him and Zeke being 1a and 1b.

 

[InTheZone]

Let's not ignore the future but you can't stress out about what this team will look like 4 years from now...who saw Fredericks being retired? Hell who saw Lawrence looking like this 4 years ago? You are concerned with something that's not even worth concerning over. The salary cap will be increased in 4 years and I'm pretty sure a few of our big money guys will no longer be on this team. I can't see Tyron and Zack Martin playing at a high level 4 years from now and Cooper probably won't behave.


To answer your question I trust this team to find running back before I do a quarterback. They found Pollard they drafted Zeke and they drafted Demarco Murray. Goofed on Joseph Randle. I like those odds as opposed to drafting Stephen McGee and trying to draft Paxton Lynch, Johnny Football and Connor Cook. Just saying........

I'm not ignoring the future, just omitted it so I can fit within your perspective of the current state of the team.

As for those QBs you mentioned, can you name the RB, receivers, and oline they had or do you believe most of their offensive support were bums? I find it very hard to believe we'll hit a dud so bad, let alone a player that'll see significant drop off from where we stand right now.

edit: I'm not counting McGee because he wasn't a priority pick.

 

[kwcool619]

Alright I don't disagree. I thought you were insinuating those guys actually led them. They were complimentary pieces. I think the goal is for Dak to be much more than that. Like him and Zeke being 1a and 1b.

Exactly.

 

[Direwolf63]

He's far from perfect, but I can easily think of about 6 things that are much bigger problems on this team than Dak Prescott.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I'm not ignoring the future, just omitted it so I can fit within your perspective of the current state of the team.

As for those QBs you mentioned, can you name the RB, receivers, and oline they had or do you believe most of their offensive support were bums? I find it very hard to believe we'll hit a dud so bad, let alone a player that'll see significant drop off from where we stand right now.

edit: I'm not counting McGee because he wasn't a priority pick.

I'm not sure what you mean? You think Connor Cook, Johnny Football and Paxton Lynch sucked because of their supporting casts? They are out of the league before they even hit 30.

You can have the best supporting cast all you want but if you can't play you can't play. Baker Mayfield just isn't very good. Its not Beckham, Landry, Chubb or Hunt's fault he sucks.

I guess that's just where we differ. You feel anyone can be a quarterback. I don't. I don't even have faith in the Cowboys finding another Dak let alone finding Dak to begin with.

Its funny though.
You have no faith in them to draft talent around Dak and his 40 million dollar contract but you have faith in them to draft a franchise quarterback lol. You're talking in circles man......

 

[DandyDon52]

The problem is this whole "market value" thing has gotten out of hand.
Players wanting more than the last guy signed at that position is not sustainable.
People dont seem to understand that the cap is not going to increase every year , and now may go down.
Even with current crisis where fans cant even go to games, players are demanding these ridiculous contracts.

Dak turned down 35 mil a year ! That is insane no matter how u look at it.
It is the owners fault, because these teams are their toys , and they are afraid to lose certain star players.
This has encouraged things to get out of hand.

Now the cap is going to be impacted by this year, and people thought gambling money was going to raise the cap.
The nfl is hitting a point where they may not be able to keep increasing their income like in the past.

You can compare them to the roman empire, eventually it will crumble due to excess and bad mgmt.

Another thing is if I was a cowboy player, and dak wanted 40 million a year, I would know that when it comes time for them to
sign or extend me , I might have to take a pay cut or get less than I deserve. Because one player is getting a huge chunk of the money.
If I am a OL , one of the guys who protect him and help make him look good, I might let up know he is the reason I cant get a pay raise
or might have to take a paycut.

People say well not fair for the owners to make so much, which is true, but when they pay the players, just a few of the players get
the bulk of the money that they are allowed to pay out.

In the past the cap has grown each year enough that this outrageous overpaying of players was sort of sustainable, but now
I dont think it is anymore.
And all of this will have a effect on fans too, who will tire of these divas making ridiculous amounts, and if tv ratings start to reflect that,
the nfl will be on its way down.
We get way too much info on players and salarys nowdays, and it is making them less likable.

Aaron rodgers is a great qb, but because they have paid him too much all these years, GB has never even got back to a SB.
They dont have the money to build a good defense , and what money they have has gone to other off players who had good years.

Even KC will have problems once mahomes new contract kicks in and they will start losing players, not adding them.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I'm not sure what you mean? You think Connor Cook, Johnny Football and Paxton Lynch sucked because of their supporting casts? They are out of the league before they even hit 30.

You can have the best supporting cast all you want but if you can't play you can't play. Baker Mayfield just isn't very good. Its not Beckham, Landry, Chubb or Hunt's fault he sucks.

I guess that's just where we differ. You feel anyone can be a quarterback. I don't. I don't even have faith in the Cowboys finding another Dak let alone finding Dak to begin with.

Its funny though.
You have no faith in them to draft talent around Dak and his 40 million dollar contract but you have faith in them to draft a franchise quarterback lol. You're talking in circles man......

Yeah InTheZone just doesn't understand at all.

RBs- extremely replacable and most of the production is a product of the system
QBs- extremely hard to replace and are the engine behind every offense

McCaffrey was by far the best RB last season, and his offense was 29th in yards per play. Didn't have much help around him.

Wilson was one of the best QBs last season of not the best, and his offense was top 10 in yards per play. Didn't have much help around him.

It's crazy how backwards he has it.

He
1. Thinks Bridgewater could more or less replace Dak

While also thinking

2. Zeke's contract isn't a detriment to the team.

I mean what in the hell are we doing here? I swear there are more than enough outlets for information so that people aren't THIS uninformed.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yeah InTheZone just doesn't understand at all.

RBs- extremely replacable and most of the production is a product of the system
QBs extremely hard to replace and are the engine behind every offense

McCaffrey was by far the best RB last season, and his offense was 29th in yards per play. Didn't have much help around him.

Wilson was one of the best QBs last season of not the best, and his offense was top 10 in yards per play. Didn't have much help around him.

It's crazy how backwards he has it.

He
1. Thinks Bridgewater could more or less replace Dak

While also thinking

2. Zeke's contract isn't a detriment to the team.

I mean what in the hell are we doing here? I swear there are more than enough outlets for information so that people aren't THIS uninformed.

And I think this is where the lines get blurred on both sides of the argument. On no planet can anyone play quarterback I don't care how stacked your team is. Kurt Warner wasn't good because he had Faulk, Holt and Bruce. He could play some football.

IF you notice there's no great quarterback with a bad supporting cast around him contrary to popular belief.