Shaun O'Hara (Giants Center) on the Phillips 3-4

[trickblue]

But everyone seems to be focusing on the "high reward" part, and ignoring the "high risk" part.

I certainly understand the risk, but I'm hoping our speed at OLB will be a bit much to handle for OL's...

We'll see...

 

[trickblue]

Did they say that?

Or did Jon Kitna just say that "#56 alot of times doesn't look like he knows what's going on out there."

That is the main quote, but if I remember correctly, and I may not, they said they knew what we were going to do most of the time...

Someone said that, if not the Lions...

 

[theogt]

Come again?

They were appreciably better than us, period.

On the surface, I'd agree with this.

Isn't it possible that the scheme just exposed them more?

We have a much better secondary in terms of talent. That's the bottom line.

 

[theogt]

Did they say that?

Or did Jon Kitna just say that "#56 alot of times doesn't look like he knows what's going on out there."

They said it. They said they knew exactly where we would line up and exactly what our coverage was on every single down.

 

[superpunk]

They were appreciably better than us, period.

Just repeating it doesn't make it true. We were MUCH higher ranked than them for most of the season. It took a monumental defensive collpase (during which we allowed more points than anyone in the NFL) for us to DROP BACK to the pack where San Diego was.

If that's appreciably better, then down is up.

We have a much better secondary in terms of talent. That's the bottom line.

So it's not possible that their secondary is talented, but Wade's scheme exposed it? Whereas ours was protected by Parcells (attempt) to keep everything underneath? This isn't possible?

 

[superpunk]

They said it. They said they knew exactly where we would line up and exactly what our coverage was on every single down.

Seems odd, since we mixed things up in that game quite a bit.

I don't suppose there's any supporting evidence for this? It doesn't really matter. I just don't remember it - I do recall the James comment.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

When the Detroit Lions say they knew every move you are going to make, you have predictability issues...

Exactly. Don't take it from us, take it from Jon Kitna.

I don't get why *everything* has to be so black and white. Parcells and his scheme aren't the worst things ever. But they weren't that good, either. Why is it so sacrilegious to suggest that a new coach -- one with a proven successful track record on defense, which is what we're talking about -- could do things better?

 

[5Stars]

Exactly. Don't take it from us, take it from Jon Kitna.

I don't get why *everything* has to be so black and white. Parcells and his scheme aren't the worst things ever. But they weren't that good, either. Why is it so sacrilegious to suggest that a new coach -- one with a proven successful track record on defense, which is what we're talking about -- could do things better?

Good post!

All schemes get scored on...each and every one. The 34 versions, the 43 versions, the 29 versions, the 75 versions, the 19 version....

No scheme can be compared from one team to the other. What worked for SD might not work for the Boyz. The 43 of Zimmer might do wonders for Atlanta....?

It's the players and how smart they are at adapting, and the coaching of the players...to me, that is the basic principle. You can argue all day why, but the basic fact is that all schemes get scored on.

 

[theogt]

Seems odd, since we mixed things up in that game quite a bit.

I don't suppose there's any supporting evidence for this? It doesn't really matter. I just don't remember it - I do recall the James comment.

It was the same interview, I believe. Sorry, no link. I'm 100% positive the comment was made, almost word for word.

And by the way, we just gave them 4-3 looks with the front 7. That doesn't mean we changed anything at all in the secondary.

 

[theogt]

Just repeating it doesn't make it true.

Being true makes it true, though.

We were MUCH higher ranked than them for most of the season.

Yup, for most.

It took a monumental defensive collpase (during which we allowed more points than anyone in the NFL) for us to DROP BACK to the pack where San Diego was.

If that's appreciably better, then down is up.

According to Wade, he played quite a bit softer when they played with a big lead, which led to worse stats than were necessarily indicative of the defense. They played with a lead a lot.

But Wade's system will prevent the monumental defensive collapse, that caused our defense to be appreciably worse than ours.

So it's not possible that their secondary is talented, but Wade's scheme exposed it? Whereas ours was protected by Parcells (attempt) to keep everything underneath? This isn't possible?

It's not my opinion that this is true, no. Jammer? Huge bust. Cromartie was a rookie. And their safeties were bad.

 

[WoodysGirl]

By David Moore
The Dallas Morning News

IRVING, Texas — Mike Holmgren has already begun to put together a plan for Seattle's playoff game against the Cowboys.

Mike Furrey won't be asked to take part in those sessions. But the Detroit receiver doesn't have to be in the room to know what's coming. Furrey, receiver Roy Williams and the rest of the Lions became the latest offense to expose the Cowboys secondary for the flawed, predictable unit it has become.

"I think you're going to see Seattle come out with three wides and spread them out a little bit,'' Furrey said of Saturday's first round matchup. "You've got Shaun Alexnader up there, so they're going to be able to run the ball.

They're not going to be able to close the defense enough. I think they (the Seahawks) are going to be able to ...'' Furrey paused. Maybe he sensed Detroit's season-high 39 points were indictment enough and anything else he said would be piling on.

<snip>

What the Lions did &#8212; and what other teams did in December &#8212; is flood a zone with three receivers. Most teams will alter their coverage in that situation.

<snip>

"We knew that they leave the middle open a little bit,'' said Furrey, who caught 11 passes for 102 yards and a touchdown. "There are some catches to be made in there. That's their normal defense to leave four deep all the way across.

"And we knew we would be able to take advantage on the outside because they never switch off routes.''

<snip>

"It's a copycat league,'' the Lions' Roy Williams said. "This is what worked for those three teams. Let's try it for us, too.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76470&highlight=detroit+furrey

 

[WoodysGirl]

Exactly. Don't take it from us, take it from Jon Kitna.

I don't get why *everything* has to be so black and white. Parcells and his scheme aren't the worst things ever. But they weren't that good, either. Why is it so sacrilegious to suggest that a new coach -- one with a proven successful track record on defense, which is what we're talking about -- could do things better?

I don't have a problem with people suggesting that Wade can probably put the defense in better position to make some serious noise. I just don't completely agree that his defense will be appreciably better than what's already been tossed out there. I think the end results will be fairly similar.

 

[theogt]

I don't have a problem with people suggesting that Wade can probably put the defense in better position to make some serious noise. I just don't completely agree that his defense will be appreciably better than what's already been tossed out there. I think the end results will be fairly similar.

Well, I simply disagree. I think the end results will be markedly better.

 

[superpunk]

Exactly. Don't take it from us, take it from Jon Kitna.

I don't get why *everything* has to be so black and white. Parcells and his scheme aren't the worst things ever. But they weren't that good, either. Why is it so sacrilegious to suggest that a new coach -- one with a proven successful track record on defense, which is what we're talking about -- could do things better?

Sacrilegious? Don't be so dramatic.

This has nothing to do with a defense of Parcells' godlike characteristics. I'm tired of Parcells, he's not a Cowboys anymore. The only reason he's referenced is because it was his/zimmers defense that is being compared to Wade's. It's not Parcells vs. Phillips. It's perception versus reality.

The perception is that Wade's defense was far superior to ours. Reality is, it was barely better. And, if not for a monumental collapse by our defense, our defense would have rated FAR better than San Diego's.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Well, I simply disagree. I think the end results will be markedly better.

Then disagree. Proof will be the actual results. Because neither of us know for sure right now.

All we can do now is speculate and hope.

 

[5Stars]

The perception is that Wade's defense was far superior to ours. Reality is, it was barely better. And, if not for a monumental collapse by our defense, our defense would have rated FAR better than San Diego's.

Maybe, maybe not, however I agree with you, but back to what I said...it's the coaches and players that make the scheme work.

When Payton destroyed the Cowboys, he sucked all the confidence out of the players, IMO! That was the turning point of the season...the scheme got exposed. Had the Cowboys won that game agains the Saints? I bet that would have carried into the last part of the season, but they didn't.

One mans wife can be the worlds biggest b****! But, for another man she might be the greatest thing on earth!
(now, what that analogy means? I have no clue)?

 

[superpunk]

Maybe, maybe not, however I agree with you, but back to what I said...it's the coaches and players that make the scheme work.

When Payton destroyed the Cowboys, he sucked all the confidence out of the players, IMO! That was the turning point of the season...the scheme got exposed. Had the Cowboys won that game agains the Saints? I bet that would have carried into the last part of the season, but they didn't.

One mans wife can be the worlds biggest b****! But, for another man she might be the greatest thing on earth!
(now, what that analogy means? I have no clue)?

I see what you're saying. I have high hopes, and I'm not trying to dog our team.

I just have a hard time putting these two points together:

(a) Parcells/Zimmers scheme held our players back.

(b) Phillips' players held his scheme back.

Realistically, they don't mesh.

Are we really that much more talented on D than San Diego?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Exactly. Don't take it from us, take it from Jon Kitna.

I don't get why *everything* has to be so black and white. Parcells and his scheme aren't the worst things ever. But they weren't that good, either. Why is it so sacrilegious to suggest that a new coach -- one with a proven successful track record on defense, which is what we're talking about -- could do things better?

and why is it sacraliegious to suggest that execution is more important than scheme?

 

[5Stars]

I see what you're saying. I have high hopes, and I'm not trying to dog our team.

I just have a hard time putting these two points together:

(a) Parcells/Zimmers scheme held our players back.

(b) Phillips' players held his scheme back.

Realistically, they don't mesh.

Are we really that much more talented on D than San Diego?

We are going to find out, huh?

I don't have an answer to that...but, I do think that the addition of the players that Tuna brought in will make some difference because this is year two or three for some of them in the same, but different scheme.

The players have the "basics" of the 34...now it's time to learn other stuff about how to implement it.

Look at the Greg Williams...the Stinks hired him from (who Kanas City..?)...he went to the Stinks, and the first year? Good...the second year? Their defense stunk!

 

[Jake0]

Don't forget that the chargers, even though they're in the same division as the raiders, are in the afc and generally played a higher level of competition. Take that into consideration when comparing the two defenses.