Should graduation requirements change?

[jwitten82]

Science, match, english, and history should be the only required classes, most of the other classes should be optional or replaced with things that will help you once you graduate.
Art and PE are two of the most useless classes and should not required, and the majority of electives they offer are no help once you leave high school

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Why? Because they're "no help once you leave high school?" Then why did you include English and history, two of the worst majors (if you measure it on income and job prospects)? I got a degree in linguistics (with a minor in philosophy) and then completed a second degree in computer science (with a minor in mathematics) so I have a lot of experience with both the "hard" and "soft" sciences. There's nothing wrong with a balanced educational background. I know computer programmers who can barely write an intelligible sentence who make $100,000 and I know very intelligent people who can't find jobs because they majored in English, philosophy or history. I also know people who were depressed with good jobs and are now happier than ever while they chase their dreams of stand-up comedy.

So I guess what I'm asking is, why and what's the point? If school should be all about finding a job, then scrap English and history altogether. If school is all about being able to carry on an intelligent conversation, then only teach history and philosophy. If school is all about doing what makes you happy, then only teach sports and art. Or, better yet, teach a combination of them all and let kids choose who they want to be when they grow up.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Science, match, english, and history should be the only required classes, most of the other classes should be optional or replaced with things that will help you once you graduate.
Art and PE are two of the most useless classes and should not required, and the majority of electives they offer are no help once you leave high school

I would disagree with the statement that "art" is no help once you leave High School.

 

[Tabascocat]

Classes develop the mind in analytics, memorization and deductive reasoning along with other traits. It doesn't really matter what is being taught at that level.......it prepares students how to learn once they hit College IMO.

They are all important at some point, even P.E.

I think the most important class is math though, all levels.

 

[burmafrd]

this idea that you only need to learn to think is such total BS. That is what the education experts have been saying for years and many school systems supposedly have been doing. And what has the result been? Not very good.

You first make sure that your students can read and write. Then build on that. IF you do not do that then nothing else matters.

Then you teach them what they need to live day to day. Then you make sure they have an idea of the world around them.

THEN you worry about the rest.

 

[arglebargle]

Nope to the OP. There's good hard evidence that teaching music early on in elementary school leads to much better scores in math, science, etc, later on. But you can guess what class is going to get the ax first.

It's not so cut-and-dried clear what's going to 'help you' later on.

 

[Longboysfan]

1 - 12 is set to develop your mind.
The class types just help broaden your exposure and give you options of things to look into in higher education.
I was a very bad memorize and take a test.
But give me a chance to make decisions on the fly - PE - was excellent.
Once I knew the paramaters I was good to go.
Liked computers. Have got a degree and worked on them for many years.
Like History, Science and Math. All combined in computers.... Hmmmm.... Which you are using to read this reply.
Art.... Languages.... Not so much.

 

[iceberg]

Science, match, english, and history should be the only required classes, most of the other classes should be optional or replaced with things that will help you once you graduate.
Art and PE are two of the most useless classes and should not required, and the majority of electives they offer are no help once you leave high school

the question to me isn't which classes are allowed and are not - the question is why do we keep lowering the far and excusing failure vs. demanding people step up for their own education?

pe and art being useless - only if you put nothing into them. then again, just about anything is useless if you don't put any effort into it.

but in answer to your question - yes. graduation requirements should change.

it should take effort.

 

[Kevinicus]

My problem is the requirements for college degrees. Public school should teach a variety of subjects to help develop the mind and so people can explore their interests. More flexibility should be available closer to graduation. In college though, I think a lot is wasted by forcing people to take classes in something they have no interest in, and is completely unrelated to the career field they are aiming for. I shouldn't need to take some liberal arts courses to get my degree in computer science. I can understand classes such as project management which could apply to a wide variety of subjects, but a lot of it is just ridiculous and the time would be better spent on more classes related to someone's major.

 

[iceberg]

My problem is the requirements for college degrees. Public school should teach a variety of subjects to help develop the mind and so people can explore their interests. More flexibility should be available closer to graduation. In college though, I think a lot is wasted by forcing people to take classes in something they have no interest in, and is completely unrelated to the career field they are aiming for. I shouldn't need to take some liberal arts courses to get my degree in computer science. I can understand classes such as project management which could apply to a wide variety of subjects, but a lot of it is just ridiculous and the time would be better spent on more classes related to someone's major.

the purpose in either one is to round out your education. if you merely want to focus on a specific skillset, then consider a trade school. NOT a slam at all but that's what they are there for also. both are great ways to gain additional education. hell, i need to get back to reading what i type because between a tablet that guesses what i'm saying, progressive lenses and fat-fingers, i'm amazed at the stuff i type at times.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

My problem is the requirements for college degrees. Public school should teach a variety of subjects to help develop the mind and so people can explore their interests. More flexibility should be available closer to graduation. In college though, I think a lot is wasted by forcing people to take classes in something they have no interest in, and is completely unrelated to the career field they are aiming for. I shouldn't need to take some liberal arts courses to get my degree in computer science. I can understand classes such as project management which could apply to a wide variety of subjects, but a lot of it is just ridiculous and the time would be better spent on more classes related to someone's major.

the purpose in either one is to round out your education. if you merely want to focus on a specific skillset, then consider a trade school. NOT a slam at all but that's what they are there for also. both are great ways to gain additional education. hell, i need to get back to reading what i type because between a tablet that guesses what i'm saying, progressive lenses and fat-fingers, i'm amazed at the stuff i type at times.

Both of you make interesting points. @ChldsPlay I agree that the issue is more in what colleges should require than what K-12 should. I think, like others have said, K-12 is about expanding the mind. That's why PE can be equally as important as math. You develop skills in teamwork and thinking on the fly. Those can help you later on down the road when you're getting a degree in physics or whatever. I also think it's interesting what you say about wasting time on things not related to your major. Yes, this happens. I'm actually glad I had to "waste my time" though because I didn't go into college with a clear goal. I started college after the military, so I was older than your average freshman, and I had no idea if I even wanted to stay in college. I bounced around major to major before finding the perfect field for me. Others might have more of a clear goal when they enroll in college. Grad school, for me, was like this. I knew exactly what I wanted and didn't want to waste my time on anything irrelevant. Then again, that's what grad school is for. So, like @iceberg said, I think undergrad is designed to give students a well rounded education. If you don't want to waste your time on other stuff, then consider trade school, or finish undergrad and go to grad school. I think the well-roundedness of undergrad is important. Many students are 17-18 and never were able to decide on their own. Either their grade schools or their parents told them everything they had to do and everywhere they had to be. College is a place for them to explore and choose their own path. Now, many of them do end up going the route that was predetermined for them, but at least they get the chance to explore. It always reminds me of that scene in Dead Poets Society where the kid's dad always wanted him to be a lawyer (or maybe it was doctor) but the kid secretly wanted to be an artist.

 

[AbeBeta]

My problem is the requirements for college degrees. Public school should teach a variety of subjects to help develop the mind and so people can explore their interests. More flexibility should be available closer to graduation. In college though, I think a lot is wasted by forcing people to take classes in something they have no interest in, and is completely unrelated to the career field they are aiming for. I shouldn't need to take some liberal arts courses to get my degree in computer science. I can understand classes such as project management which could apply to a wide variety of subjects, but a lot of it is just ridiculous and the time would be better spent on more classes related to someone's major.

Those courses help to make you a well rounded and EDUCATED individual. Seriously dude - if you spent all your time in college with the computer science people exclusively, you'd come out prepared tremendously for computer science. However, your skills for living in a society that is 99.9% not computer science geeks would be greatly limited. You need exposure to other stuff. Oh yeah, also if you spent all your time in your computer science-focused world, you'd never meet any chicks.

 

[Longboysfan]

Oh yeah, also if you spent all your time in your computer science-focused world, you'd never meet any chicks.

Not true.

Crossover Math class in college.....

Future Wife picked me up there....

 

[AbeBeta]

Not true.

Crossover Math class in college.....

Future Wife picked me up there....

You probably could have had multiple wives if you'd taken more classes outside STEM

 

[Longboysfan]

Ahhhh... Doubtful.
Social ****** at the time.
Got extremely lucky..... Blessed most of the time.

 

[Kevinicus]

Those courses help to make you a well rounded and EDUCATED individual. Seriously dude - if you spent all your time in college with the computer science people exclusively, you'd come out prepared tremendously for computer science. However, your skills for living in a society that is 99.9% not computer science geeks would be greatly limited. You need exposure to other stuff. Oh yeah, also if you spent all your time in your computer science-focused world, you'd never meet any chicks.

Your experiences with those classes must be greatly different than mine.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I don't have a problem with required classes in college. Like some people have said, if you don't want to waste your time on anything else, go to trade school. However, problem with that is, a degree in X is usually better than a certificate in X. Like I and some others have said, college makes you a well-rounded individual. It also gives you some time to "find yourself." And for those who really know what they want to be when they grow up and don't want to waste their time on anything else, you can probably waive all the required general education classes by taking AP classes in high school. If you really know you want to be X, then you should have worked hard enough in high school to not have to waste time on anything in college other than X. I, on the other hand, had no idea what I wanted to do and I'm grateful for the general education classes helping me to find my path. Also, I was a horrible high school student and didn't go directly into college. The truly dedicated people finish undergrad in 2 years and jump directly into upper-division classes relevant to their major. If you didn't put forth the effort in high school, then don't complain about having to take general education classes in college.

I guess my point is, college is only 4 years and the first 2 years is general education. If you really know what you want to do before enrolling in college, then you should have put forth the effort before starting college. The people who did can usually bypass those first 2 years. If you didn't have a clear idea before college, then what makes you think you do when you get to college? Maybe you do need the additional classes to get a better idea of what you want to do.

 

[Kevinicus]

Maybe my problem is with the quality of the classes then. I really don't think they offer anything that is going to round out anyone's education. I certainly haven't gained anything from them (not when I was 18, or when I returned to school at 35). A class or two that barely touches on a subject isn't really going to do much IMO. However, 10-15 more classes in your field could go a long way.

I am fine with the required credit amounts, but I think there should be more flexibility in what can be taken. If you want to try different things, then go ahead, take a film class or study philosophy. If you have no interest and want to excel at a certain field, then fill your plate with that.

 

[CATCH17]

this idea that you only need to learn to think is such total BS. That is what the education experts have been saying for years and many school systems supposedly have been doing. And what has the result been? Not very good.

College has become such a big financial scam. It's unbelievable.

Most jobs don't need all of the education they require. You just need on the job training.

Education is important but I can't believe our society still buys into the current structure and all of the unnecessary requirements and unnatural teaching methods.


Giving a 18 - 22 year old the option to go 100 grand in debt and come out with a psychology or art degree should be illegal.

 

[Fletch]

Why? Because they're "no help once you leave high school?" Then why did you include English and history, two of the worst majors (if you measure it on income and job prospects)? I got a degree in linguistics (with a minor in philosophy) and then completed a second degree in computer science (with a minor in mathematics) so I have a lot of experience with both the "hard" and "soft" sciences. There's nothing wrong with a balanced educational background. I know computer programmers who can barely write an intelligible sentence who make $100,000 and I know very intelligent people who can't find jobs because they majored in English, philosophy or history. I also know people who were depressed with good jobs and are now happier than ever while they chase their dreams of stand-up comedy.

So I guess what I'm asking is, why and what's the point? If school should be all about finding a job, then scrap English and history altogether. If school is all about being able to carry on an intelligent conversation, then only teach history and philosophy. If school is all about doing what makes you happy, then only teach sports and art. Or, better yet, teach a combination of them all and let kids choose who they want to be when they grow up.

What do education mean?