CFZ Should Herschel Walker be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame

[LACowboysFan1]

He only had 2 thousand yd rushing seasons. He was mostly a subpar RB.

Even the best running backs need blocking and an offense that doesn't let defenses load up on run defense. Which he didn't have very often.

Respectfully disagree....

 

[kskboys]

Even the best running backs need blocking and an offense that doesn't let defenses load up on run defense. Which he didn't have very often.

Respectfully disagree....

The best RBs run for more yardage even if they don't have blocking.

Did you look at each season to determine this?

 

[zrinkill]

Sounds crazy but probably not.

 

[cowboyed]

From his on the field endeavors Herschel Walker should be seriously considered for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Off the field he should be seriously considered for the Stupidity Hall of Life.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The best RBs run for more yardage even if they don't have blocking.

Did you look at each season to determine this?

Look at the records of the teams he played for. Yes the best get yards, but most of them had at least decent teams. Herschel didn't have that very much.

Like I said, I disagree, let's move on....

 

[OmerV]

It pretty much is. Show me these players who are in due to out of country numbers.

I don't know if the HOF rules say that or not. If they don't, then it's ultimately up to voters to determine for themselves if or how much to weigh those stats

 

[OmerV]

AFL became part of the NFL. So in essence it was the NFL. Completely different case than counting USFL or CFL stats.

I disagree, I think it's clearly true, and is very clearly shown by who is in and who is not.

If they are counted as you say, then why isn't Doug Flutie in? There are countless players who tore it up in the CFL, and not a one of them is in unless they were also dominant in the NFL.

I think on a scale of 1 to 10, the CFL is counted as .1.

BTW, AFL stats are clearly counted. I am not arguing that at all.

The fact the AFL eventually merged with the NFL doesn't change the fact it was an entirely separate league, and the stats and accomplishments were not built in the NFL or against NFL talent. Accordingly, there is precedent for stats built outside the NFL to carry weight with HOF voters

Obviously in all the time since, there hasn't been an alternative league that has competed with the NFL to the same degree the AFL did, so that explains why non NFL accomplishments today aren't given the same weight as AFL accomplishments.

As for Flutie, I never suggested stats outside the NFL should carry as much weight as those built in the NFL. In fact, I have consistently & repeatedly said they should not. Plus, there is the question of whether the Pro Football Hall of Fame even allows Canadian accomplishments to be considered. As mentioned before, I don't know if the HOF criteria it is limited to pro football in America.

 

[AbeBeta]

Even the best running backs need blocking and an offense that doesn't let defenses load up on run defense. Which he didn't have very often.

Respectfully disagree....

What a fantastic argument. A player doesn't produce and he should be in the hall because he was on bad teams. Well done, sir!

 

[LACowboysFan1]

What a fantastic argument. A player doesn't produce and he should be in the hall because he was on bad teams. Well done, sir!

He didn't "produce", meaning stats are all that matters?

Got it....

 

[OmerV]

He didn't "produce", meaning stats are all that matters?

Got it....

Stats aren't all of it, but certainly a significant part of it. You can't completely offset subpar stats by saying "if only his circumstances were different" because that is based on speculation, not verifiable information

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Stats aren't all of it, but certainly a significant part of it. You can't completely offset subpar stats by saying "if only his circumstances were different" because that is based on speculation, not verifiable information

If Lynn Swann can be in the HOF with 332 receptions, then obvioulsy the voters for the HOF can select anybody they choose for any reason.

There are plenty of players in the HOF that should not be in there in not only my opinion but a lot of others.

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Walker, but they also shouldn't expect me to change mine, either.

Interesting discussion though...

 

[starfan1]

Hershel should bein the hall just for the 3 championships he brought to this organization. and if you dont think that trade led to the 3 90s rings then I dont know what to tell you

 

[OmerV]

If Lynn Swann can be in the HOF with 332 receptions, then obvioulsy the voters for the HOF can select anybody they choose for any reason.

There are plenty of players in the HOF that should not be in there in not only my opinion but a lot of others.

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Walker, but they also shouldn't expect me to change mine, either.

Interesting discussion though...

Again, I said stats aren't the only thing. History has shown that in the minds of voters team success and shining in big moments in big games can help overcome a shortfall in stats.

Swan has those other factors that swayed perception - big team success, and big, high profile contributions to team success in big moments of big games.

Right or wrong, that's what got Swan in. It's also what got Aikman in.

So yes, voters can decide, but clearly success over a career in some form is is vital. Nobody gets in without either big stats or at least solid stats combined with the perception he was a big contributor to team success.

Walker doesn't have the benefit of team success or shining in big moments in big games to prop his candidacy like Swan did, so all he has to lean on are the stats.

 

[Shane612]

Yes.

 

[AbeBeta]

He didn't "produce", meaning stats are all that matters?

Got it....

And what are the other factors that would be evidence for him being in the HOF?

Being part of a trade where one team got fleeced? Being super (re)productive with multiple women?

Help me out here.

 

[kskboys]

The fact the AFL eventually merged with the NFL doesn't change the fact it was an entirely separate league, and the stats and accomplishments were not built in the NFL or against NFL talent. Accordingly, there is precedent for stats built outside the NFL to carry weight with HOF voters

Obviously in all the time since, there hasn't been an alternative league that has competed with the NFL to the same degree the AFL did, so that explains why non NFL accomplishments today aren't given the same weight as AFL accomplishments.

As for Flutie, I never suggested stats outside the NFL should carry as much weight as those built in the NFL. In fact, I have consistently & repeatedly said they should not. Plus, there is the question of whether the Pro Football Hall of Fame even allows Canadian accomplishments to be considered. As mentioned before, I don't know if the HOF criteria it is limited to pro football in America.

You are incorrect. When the Jets won the super bowl, they proved beyond any doubt that the AFL had NFL talent.

The HOF is for NFL talent. Claiming otherwise is silly. And it's easily proven. Name one player that tore up the CFL or USFL that is in the HOF that did not tear up the NFL. There are not any.

 

[bigE79]

When the AFL and NFL merged in 1970, all the statistics compiled by the players in the AFL were included in their official statistical history. But when the USFL folded in the mid-1980's, the statistics compiled by the players, including luminaries like Herschel Walker, Reggie White and Jim Kelly were not included in their overall professional football statistics. That is why Bruce Smith is credited with the most sacks in history (200) ahead of Reggie White (198.) If you include the 23.5 sacks Reggie White had while playing in the USFL in 1984 & 1985, Reggie White is the clear #1 all-time sacks leader with 221.5 sacks in his Pro Football career.

In the USFL playing for the New Jersey Generals, Herschel Walker had 7,115 yards from scrimmage.

• 1,143 rushing attempts for 5,562 yards
• 130 receptions for 1,484 yards
• 3 kick returns for 69 yards.

Currently, Herschel Walker ranks 48th in NFL history in total yards from scrimmage, sandwiched between HOF RB Roger Craig at #47, and HOF WR Art Monk at #49. He is 2 spots ahead of soon-to-be HOF TE Jason Witten, who is ranked 50th all-time on the total yards from scrimmage list.

In the NFL, Herschel Walker has a total of 18,168 total yards from scrimmage.

• 1954 rushing attempts for 8,225 yards
• 512 receptions for 4,859 yards
• 215 kick returns for 5,084 yards

If you added his USFL statistics, Herschel Walker would rank #1 on the Total Yards from Scrimmage list with 25,283 yards compiled - 1,743 yards ahead of currently ranked #1 Jerry Rice, and 3,704 yards ahead of currently ranked #2 Emmitt Smith. Even if you exclude his kick return yardage, he would rank 4th all-time, behind Walter Payton with 20,130 Total Yards rushing and receiving.

Walker, even without his USFL statistics currently ranks 45th all time in rushing yards, ahead of HOF players Roger Craig, Larry Czonka, and Terrell Davis. If you add his USFL numbers, he has a total of 13,787 total rushing yards, which would rank him 7th all-time, ahead of HOF RB LaDanian Tomlinson, and just behind HOF RB Curtis Martin. Walker's receiving yards would rank 197th all-time, and his kick return yards would rank 32nd all-time.

In Canton, they call it the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. I'm not sure how they can justify excluding Herschel Walker from among the luminaries inducted into company of legends already included therein.

Not before Harvey Martin

 

[VaqueroTD]

If Lynn Swann can be in the HOF with 332 receptions, then obvioulsy the voters for the HOF can select anybody they choose for any reason.

There are plenty of players in the HOF that should not be in there in not only my opinion but a lot of others.

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Walker, but they also shouldn't expect me to change mine, either.

Interesting discussion though...

Totally different. Swann in for Super Bowls and clutch plays. NFL probably puts players in for that more than any other sport. It’s a bigger deal, and stats are nice but have always meant less in the NFL vs other pro sports.

 

[OmerV]

You are incorrect. When the Jets won the super bowl, they proved beyond any doubt that the AFL had NFL talent.

The HOF is for NFL talent. Claiming otherwise is silly. And it's easily proven. Name one player that tore up the CFL or USFL that is in the HOF that did not tear up the NFL. There are not any.

I didn't say the AFL didn't prove it had talent, so that argument makes no sense.

But if you want to play that game, that was the 3rd season after the merger. The first 2 seasons the AFC (former AFL) wasn't competitive in the Super Bowl. Additionally, it's illogical to suggest the Jets winning in the 3rd season after the merger somehow proved that 3 years earlier the AFL already had the same talent from the top of the league to the bottom that the NFL had.

But ultimately, none of this changes the fact that you have erroneously argued that only NFL accomplishments have ever been considered for the HOF. Clearly that's not true given that pre merger accomplishments, even going back to the early days of the AFL when it was a start up league, were considered for a number of players that got into the HOF.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Totally different. Swann in for Super Bowls and clutch plays

He doesn't go for Super Bowls unless he's on a team with a top defense, Stallworth, Harris, et al, it's a team sport, whereas the HOF is for individuals. As far as clutch plays, Walker had in one game I was at an 80-plus yard run and an 80-plus yard reception, he made plenty of big plays, just for poor teams.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, nor should they expect to change mine. Just a discussion, thanks for your comments....