SI asked this question and I thought I would ask it here

LittleBoyBlue

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Doomsday101;1570234 said:
They didn't the word "other" is at the bottom. :lmao2:


That was funny... but Belichek almost had them in another SB last year... so close...

I gotta throw this one in.... imagine if Jimmy stayed 2-3 more years... we may have been the first team to win 4 straight or atleast 4 in 5 years... THEN Jimmy would be on that list.... there is no way Jimmy doesnt have the boys ready to play the 49ers in that 3rd straight nfc title game.... and even if they werent ready... I feel confident that he stops the bleeding in the first qtr (before it gets to 21 points) and we go on to win... the first qtr was the difference in the game ultimately
 

Doomsday101

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YoMick;1570241 said:
That was funny... but Belichek almost had them in another SB last year... so close...

I gotta throw this one in.... imagine if Jimmy stayed 2-3 more years... we may have been the first team to win 4 straight or atleast 4 in 5 years... THEN Jimmy would be on that list.... there is no way Jimmy doesnt have the boys ready to play the 49ers in that 3rd straight nfc title game.... and even if they werent ready... I feel confident that he stops the bleeding in the first qtr (before it gets to 21 points) and we go on to win... the first qtr was the difference in the game ultimately

No doubt Belichek will go down as one of the all time greats. He has done a great job in NE. As for Jimmy I think the guy was a master motivator but I think one reason Jimmy never stayed more than 5 year at any coaching stop he had is because while Jimmy style is successful it can also wear on a team.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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Doomsday101;1570052 said:
Who is the greatest coach in NFL history?

Paul Brown

Tom Landry

Vince Lombardi

Don Shula

Bill Walsh

Other

Homers. ;)

Of course, Landry would top the poll here.

Brown, Lombardi did it when offensive and defensive linemen were as heavy as today's safeties and slower than Bill Bates after a meal of fried bologna sandwiches.

Shula, Landry, Noll and Walsh were great in an era when strategies were more complex and players were bigger and faster.
Out of those four, Walsh was probably the best with Noll close behind followed by Shula and Landry.

To his credit, Walsh got out while the going was good. Noll, Landry and Shula got out when the fans no longer believed in their abilitiies to win.

Walsh is the best modern-day coach with Noll close behind.:D
 

ABQCOWBOY

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YoMick;1570221 said:
Knoll gets the nod over Landry. Duel to duel Knoll outdid Landry.
Knoll took away from some of Tom's Legacy. Just one win against the Steelers and Landry would have surpassed Knoll. It may not be completely fair to look at it that way... but thats how it is sometimes...


I always like Lombardi's.... "I don't associate myself with losers" line..... classic and great.


Not so long ago there was an interview with Coach Landry circa 1993 or so. In the inteview, Landry commented on the Steelers teams and made the observation that they were just a bit bigger and stronger then the Cowboys were. Just physically couldn't match up. Of course, we now know that it was Steroids but in those days, I'm not certain that it was as evident. I guess it's all in how you look at it.
 

jazzcat22

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burmafrd;1570061 said:
Depends on how you look at coaching. Game decisions, draft, building a team, creating new offenses and defenses, etc.
If you were to put them all together, then I would go with Landry or Brown. BOTH of them were great for a long time at doing it all.
Now if you want to go with winning championships, then it pretty much has to go with Lombardi- no one won more inless time then he did. 61, 62, 65,66,67. Made it to the Champ Game in 60 and barely lost. Throw out the one year that he coached the skins, and from 59-67 he dominated the NFL like no coach ever had before or since.
Bill Walsh was the latest innovator and team builder. I put him a rung below Landry and Brown because they were both offensive and defensive innovators, and Walsh was strictly offense. And as regards creativity, Landry wins that one overall.

Well said. I agree. Landry & Brown the best innovators and all around coaches. What they and Lombardi did paved the road for all the other coaches. I voted for Landry because of the Cowboys obviously. But Paul Brown gets my vote if not for that.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Doomsday101;1570245 said:
No doubt Belichek will go down as one of the all time greats. He has done a great job in NE. As for Jimmy I think the guy was a master motivator but I think one reason Jimmy never stayed more than 5 year at any coaching stop he had is because while Jimmy style is successful it can also wear on a team.


Well.... we lost that 3rd NFC title game.... Jimmy was STILL effective I believe... I dont think we lose with Jimmy there.

Lets get this straight... Jimmy was pushed out of Dallas. His style was....(had just won 2 straight SB's)... working and winning. In hindsite you can dissect however you like.
 

StoneyBurk

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The fact that Landry was his own offensive and defensive coordinator into the 1980's is unsurpassed as Walsh himself said about Landry.
 

burmafrd

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No other coach innovated as much as Landry did on both sides of the ball.
He created the 4-3; then the Flex. His multiple formations and movement and other facets on offense are almost as impressive.
And then his record of consistency- 20 straight winning seasons; and making the playoffs every year from 75-85. And from 65-73.
 

jobberone

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burmafrd;1570983 said:
No other coach innovated as much as Landry did on both sides of the ball.
He created the 4-3; then the Flex. His multiple formations and movement and other facets on offense are almost as impressive.
And then his record of consistency- 20 straight winning seasons; and making the playoffs every year from 75-85. And from 65-73.

I think Brown has the greater influence esp looking at the coaching tree He built the offense we see today Landry did a lot with it but Brown invented a lot of what we see esp in the passing offense Landry gets the nod on defense but Brown is so far ahead of everyone it is no contest Lo bardi is the winningest but does not have the influence on the NFL both Landry and Brown do
 

StanleySpadowski

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I'm amazed that more people don't understand that Paul Brown is the correct answer of those listed.

He basically re-integrated professional football, set the assistant coaching structure as we know it, set up many of the current practice patterns, invented facemasks.....

Without Brown we probably don't know who Don Shula or Chuck Noll or Bill Walsh are. Or Sid Gillam so we'd have lost the likes of Don Coryell, Joe Gibbs and even Ernie Zampese. How many Super Bowl wins are sitting on the mantle of that coaching tree?

His Browns set a record by not throwing a single pass in a game in beating the Eagles because someone with the Eagles said that all the Browns do is throw the ball in explaining their first loss to them.

I'd have loved to known how many fewer championships the Packers would have won if Art Modell wasn't such an implant.
 

THUMPER

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StanleySpadowski;1571299 said:
I'm amazed that more people don't understand that Paul Brown is the correct answer of those listed.

He basically re-integrated professional football, set the assistant coaching structure as we know it, set up many of the current practice patterns, invented facemasks.....

Without Brown we probably don't know who Don Shula or Chuck Noll or Bill Walsh are. Or Sid Gillam so we'd have lost the likes of Don Coryell, Joe Gibbs and even Ernie Zampese. How many Super Bowl wins are sitting on the mantle of that coaching tree?

His Browns set a record by not throwing a single pass in a game in beating the Eagles because someone with the Eagles said that all the Browns do is throw the ball in explaining their first loss to them.

I'd have loved to known how many fewer championships the Packers would have won if Art Modell wasn't such an implant.

Here's an interesting thought: Landry came up with the 4-3 and the MLB specifically to stop Jim Brown, and he was quite successful with it, which is why it quickly became the standard defense throughout the league. He used Sam Huff to shadow Brown and then shoot to wherever Brown was going.

Paul Brown also created the "umbrella" defense that was used for 20 years until the "zone" defense became the norm (thanks to Bob Hayes).

He experimented with helmet radios for the QB back in the early 50s, we have used them now for many years.

He integrated pro football the year BEFORE Jackie Robinson was signed to play baseball, signing Bill Willis and Marion Motley, both HoFers (the Rams also signed 2 black players in 1946 (but the Browns' players were signed first I believe), Kenny Washington and Woody Strode. Washington had been Jackie Robinson's roommate at UCLA and Woody Strode went on to be an actor).

The play-action, the screen pass, the draw play, and a bunch of other plays that he came up with that are now standard.

The list of innovations that Paul Brown is credited for is enormous. He is the father of modern football and is without a doubt the greatest HC ever.
 

Zaxor

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THUMPER;1571399 said:
Here's an interesting thought: Landry came up with the 4-3 and the MLB specifically to stop Jim Brown, and he was quite successful with it, which is why it quickly became the standard defense throughout the league. He used Sam Huff to shadow Brown and then shoot to wherever Brown was going.

Paul Brown also created the "umbrella" defense that was used for 20 years until the "zone" defense became the norm (thanks to Bob Hayes).

He experimented with helmet radios for the QB back in the early 50s, we have used them now for many years.

He integrated pro football the year BEFORE Jackie Robinson was signed to play baseball, signing Bill Willis and Marion Motley, both HoFers (the Rams also signed 2 black players in 1946 (but the Browns' players were signed first I believe), Kenny Washington and Woody Strode. Washington had been Jackie Robinson's roommate at UCLA and Woody Strode went on to be an actor).

The play-action, the screen pass, the draw play, and a bunch of other plays that he came up with that are now standard.

The list of innovations that Paul Brown is credited for is enormous. He is the father of modern football and is without a doubt the greatest HC ever.

I think the Umbrella coverage http://www.***BANNED-URL***/s/dws/spe/2000/landryspecial/landrygiants.htm


[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Just as he had as a player - when Landry and teammate Emlen Tunnell changed the nature of pass coverage forever as cornerstones of the Giants' vaunted "Umbrella Secondary" - Landry the defensive coordinator was hatching schemes no one had ever seen. As a result, the Giants were the first team in the sport's history to win acclaim for its dominance on the other side of the ball. [/FONT]


was Tom's along with multiple offense to beat his own 4-3...
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=119

Landry gained a reputation as a great technical innovator, as well as an inspirational leader. He introduced the "flex defense" and "multiple offense" in the 1960s. In the 1970s, he restructured the "shotgun" or "spread" offense and, in the 1980s, he embraced and helped develop the "situation substitution" concept of handling his player talent.
No doubt Paul was a great, great coach and I have only my Cowboy bias to overcome before I would put him on the top... also I still have that picture in my head of the late Paul Brown coaching the Bengals (wasn't pretty)

Tom Landry
Coaching Highlights:
• First head coach of the Dallas Cowboys (1960-1988)
• Set an NFL record with 20 consecutive winning seasons (1966-1985)
• 1966 NFL Coach of the Year
• 1975 NFC Coach of the Year
• Won 13 NFC East titles
• Won five NFC titles
• Won Super Bowl VI and XII
• Introduced the flex defense
• Developed the 4-3 defense
• Revived the shotgun offense
• Introduced motion offenses
• Popularized situational substitutions
• Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (1990)


Paul Brown on the other hand
http://www.growlzone.com/content/view/406/63/j

Paul Browns Innovations Include:
  • First to employ a year round coaching staff
  • First to use notebooks and classroom techniques extensively
  • First to set up complete film clip statistical study
  • Frst to grade players on individual film clips
  • First to keep players at a hotel the night before home games as well as away games
  • first to use messenger guards to call plays
  • Developed detailed pass pattrens that opened in specific defensive areas
  • Invented the face mask/bars on helmets
  • First to use intellegence test to get a feel for a players ability to learn
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_20041128/ai_n12763446

Brown asked Walsh to help him plan the Bengal's offence around players who were multi-skilled and able to keep possession through a series of short, quick and accurate passes that gradually moved the ball into a scoring position. Walsh went on to perfect this efficient style with his own team, the San Francisco 49ers, winning three Superbowls in the 1980s. Known as the "West Coast Offense

Brown was also an innovator on match day. He was the first coach to send players on to the field to relay messages to the quarterback. Favouring passing over running to move the ball up the field by achieving a "down" (the 10-yard mark required to keep possession), Brown devised two influential concepts. He encouraged his quarterback to move backwards into a protected "pocket" and to achieve this, organised the offensive line (the players who protect the quarterback from onrushing defenders) into a cup shape that forced defenders away from the danger area.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1302
Who is Paul Brown?
Paul Brown is the deeply rooted trunk of modern football’s most important coaching tree. You know that famous Bill Walsh coaching tree that everybody talks about? Any time you see or hear “Bill Walsh coaching tree,” just think Paul Brown.
 

burmafrd

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I think that it is pretty much a tie between Landry and Brown. Both were great and both were innovators.
 

THUMPER

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Zaxor;1571426 said:
I think the Umbrella coverage http://www.***BANNED-URL***/s/dws/spe/2000/landryspecial/landrygiants.htm


[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Just as he had as a player - when Landry and teammate Emlen Tunnell changed the nature of pass coverage forever as cornerstones of the Giants' vaunted "Umbrella Secondary" - Landry the defensive coordinator was hatching schemes no one had ever seen. As a result, the Giants were the first team in the sport's history to win acclaim for its dominance on the other side of the ball. [/FONT]


was Tom's along with multiple offense to beat his own 4-3...
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=119

Actually, the "Umbrella" was already a part of the Giants defense...

Steve Owen
Coach - Phillips University - Enshrined in 1966

A great defensive star of the 1920s, Owen played for the Giants from 1926-36. He captained the 1927 team which won the National Football League title and held their foes to a record low of 20 points. Owen coached the Giants for 23 years from 1930 to 1953 and had a coaching record of 150-100-17, including eight divisional and two NFL title teams. Some of his coaching innovations include the A-formation offense, the umbrella defense and the two-platoon system. Owen went to college at Phillips University in Enid, Oklahoma. After a year coaching at his alma mater following his graduation in 1921, Owen joined the Kansas City Cowboys and came to the Giants in 1926 and was named All-NFL at tackle for four years.
http://www.giants.com/display_cont.asp?cont_id=72374

Steve Owen was the HC when Landry came to the Giants.

But you are right in that it wasn't Brown who invented it.

Great info BTW.
 

Zaxor

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THUMPER;1571514 said:
Actually, the "Umbrella" was already a part of the Giants defense...



Steve Owen was the HC when Landry came to the Giants.

But you are right in that it wasn't Brown who invented it.

Great info BTW.

thanks...

but it was Steve Owens who gave the chalk to Tom when Tom had the idea and he explained it to the team...I'll see if I can find it...


okay I can't find it so I guess I was wrong..

here is a very interesting website

http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/frpage.cfm?topic=4-stratgy
 
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