Some new evidence in the Zimmerman case

[The30YardSlant]

I am not an attorney, thank God, but I think at some point they decide to drop the charge against him before this ever gets to trial. Then they charge him with a lesser crime that, as 30yardslant said, doesn't have to worry about reasonable doubt like manslaughter.

But if they do proceed with the murder charge, Zimmerman goes free. And BTW, he just made bond.

He can still be convicted on lesser charges if the jury finds him not guilty of murder, the difference is that the prosecution now wastes all that time and money on an unwinnable charge.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Pretty dumb on their part then. I see a lot of public outrage in the future becasue of this.

Public outrage is the only reason he is being charged with murder 2 in the first place.

 

[iceberg]

Pretty dumb on their part then. I see a lot of public outrage in the future becasue of this.

pretty dumb of the public then.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Yes, which is why I was so shocked they went with murder 2 instead of manslaughter.

If it was ANYBODY else in any other situation murder 2 is off the table, but the media and many in the public want to crucify this guy and make an example of him.

Zimmerman may in fact have done something wrong, and at the very least I believe his poor handling of the situation which led to the death deserves some sort of punishment, but he didn't murder the kid.

I'm curious about something. Suppose everything unfolded like Zimmerman said. (I don't know if it did or not). And the one thing Zimmerman did was to pursue Martin when told not to. IS that in and of itself illegal and if so, does that preclude Zimmerman from using self defense as a defense?

I think there should be some kind of punishment for Zimmerman with respect to disobeying an officer's order but I don't know if a 911 operator is considered law enforcement or not.

 

[ajk23az]

If you're thining this was manufactured....well, that would be a heck of a conspiracy in that tiny fraction of time.:laugh2:

PicSay & Instagram can do crazy things!!! :laugh2:

 

[Cajuncowboy]

He can still be convicted on lesser charges if the jury finds him not guilty of murder, the difference is that the prosecution now wastes all that time and money on an unwinnable charge.

I know that can happen but doesn't the defense have to charge him with that before they can find that? Again, I'm not an attorney but I have seen cases where someone was killed and the defendant was charged with murder, manslaughter and other charges. As far as I know there is only one charge Zimmerman is facing. If they only charge him with one charge, can the jury on their own decide to find him guilty on other charges?

 

[Lodeus]

Public outrage is the only reason he is being charged with murder 2 in the first place.

They should have been smarter and not charge him with murder when they knew he wouldn't be convicted of it, which then could cause a lot more outrage.

 

[JonJon]

Anyone following this case knows that a physical altercation took place. This is nothing new. All the photo proves is that at some point, Zimmerman took a blow to the head and was bleeding because of it. What this photo does not prove is who initiated the confrontation. Will the photo assist in Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self defense? Possibly. But we must keep in mind that Martin is also entitled to defend himself. If he felt his life was in danger and sought deadly means by bashing Zimmerman in the back of the head (keep in mind that Martin was weaponless) then that will need to be taken into consideration. It is going to be interesting as more information comes out, but I don't see this as the major game changer as some would like you to believe.

 

[DFWJC]

I'm curious about something. Suppose everything unfolded like Zimmerman said. (I don't know if it did or not). And the one thing Zimmerman did was to pursue Martin when told not to. IS that in and of itself illegal and if so, does that preclude Zimmerman from using self defense as a defense?

I think there should be some kind of punishment for Zimmerman with respect to disobeying an officer's order but I don't know if a 911 operator is considered law enforcement or not.

A 911 operator gives recommendations only and can not order anyone to do anything.

Having said that, the guy should have listened to the recommendation. But with recent break-ins in the area, the guy was too gung-ho...imo. A kid is dead as a result.

I have doubts he'll be convicted of murder2. I'm curious if the prosecutionn if is going for the throat, will he get off scot free if they fail? Sometimes it's an all or nothing sort of thing--which bothers me.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I'm curious about something. Suppose everything unfolded like Zimmerman said. (I don't know if it did or not). And the one thing Zimmerman did was to pursue Martin when told not to. IS that in and of itself illegal and if so, does that preclude Zimmerman from using self defense as a defense?

I think there should be some kind of punishment for Zimmerman with respect to disobeying an officer's order but I don't know if a 911 operator is considered law enforcement or not.

It isnt illegal, but manslaughter doesn't require someone doing anything illegal. It only requires negligent actions which directly lead to the death of another. I think if Zimmerman pursued the kid without any real cause and either confronted him/started the fight/pulled out his weapon prior to Trayvon injuring him/etc. then he could be convicted of manslaughter because Trayvon had no way of knowing who he was. Just because it was self-defense at the time of the shooting doesnt mean Zimmerman is without fault.

However, there is just no way he gets convicted of murder. A murder trial would essentially go like this...

Defense: Mr. Zimmerman, did you start the fight?

Zimmerman: No

Defense: Mr. Zimmerman, did you fear for your life when your head was being bashed into the concrete?

Zimmerman: Yes

Defense: Prosecuter, got anybody that can dispute this and prove that Mr. Zimmerman is not telling the truth?

Prosecution: *Crickets*

Case closed. If the only credible witness to the crime is Zimmerman they cannot possibly get him on murder with the given evidence because the prosecution has no way of removing reasonable doubt. Even if he were convicted by a biased jury, any judge worth their salt would throw the verdict out.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

What don't people get about it's not about if Martin was attacked? He was the aggressor from the beginning. He chased Trayvon. He deserved to get his head split. You don't go running after someone and think that person won't defend themselves.

How can you be on the offense and claim self-defense?

In any case, I'm just glad the nitwit got arrested. He shouldn't have followed him with a gun and the POS should have taken a beating like a man.

Men don't fight with guns, murderers do.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

And those are just tiny head cuts that bled a lot.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I am not an attorney, thank God, but I think at some point they decide to drop the charge against him before this ever gets to trial. Then they charge him with a lesser crime that, as 30yardslant said, doesn't have to worry about reasonable doubt like manslaughter.

But if they do proceed with the murder charge, Zimmerman goes free. And BTW, he just made bond.

My guess is he'll plea out to manslaughter.

 

[JonJon]

What don't people get about it's not about if Martin was attacked? He was the aggressor from the beginning. He chased Trayvon. He deserved to get his head split. You don't go running after someone and think that person won't defend themselves.

How can you be on the offense and claim self-defense?

In any case, I'm just glad the nitwit got arrested. He shouldn't have followed him with a gun and the POS should have taken a beating like a man.

Men don't fight with guns, murderers do.

I think you mean Zimmerman?

 

[Yeagermeister]

And those are just tiny head cuts that bled a lot.

Any cut on that part of the head is going to bleed a lot. I know first hand.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Anyone following this case knows that a physical altercation took place. This is nothing new. All the photo proves is that at some point, Zimmerman took a blow to the head and was bleeding because of it. What this photo does not prove is who initiated the confrontation. Will the photo assist in Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self defense? Possibly. But we must keep in mind that Martin is also entitled to defend himself. If he felt his life was in danger and sought deadly means by bashing Zimmerman in the back of the head (keep in mind that Martin was weaponless) then that will need to be taken into consideration. It is going to be interesting as more information comes out, but I don't see this as the major game changer as some would like you to believe.

Well it changes the perspective some have since at first people were saying he was lying because there was no blood. Then there was the picture that showed he had some cuts and people said that it didn't look severe. Now we see this picture.

It doesn't "Prove" what Zimmerman said is true, but it is more evidence in his favor that it did happen.

And yes, I agree that Martin has a right to be defended as well. But let's not forget that Martin wasn't some small frail child as some would want you to believe. He had a history of being in fights and being suspended from school and so there is a degree of likelihood that he may have started the physical confrontation.

In the end, the facts will come out it will get sorted out. But either way, there will be people on both sides who won't be happy with the outcome regardless of the evidence.

I for one don't have a side. I just want to look at everything in total and see what the evidence says.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Anyone following this case knows that a physical altercation took place. This is nothing new. All the photo proves is that at some point, Zimmerman took a blow to the head and was bleeding because of it. What this photo does not prove is who initiated the confrontation. Will the photo assist in Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self defense? Possibly. But we must keep in mind that Martin is also entitled to defend himself. If he felt his life was in danger and sought deadly means by bashing Zimmerman in the back of the head (keep in mind that Martin was weaponless) then that will need to be taken into consideration. It is going to be interesting as more information comes out, but I don't see this as the major game changer as some would like you to believe.

Again, it doesnt prove anything. What it does do is remove any possibility of the prosecution proving murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Zimmerman is the only legally credible witness, and now there is physical evidence of his claim. It doesnt matter how it happened, all that matters now is that the proescution cannot legally discredit his claim because there is no real evidence to suggest otherwise and no credible witnesses to say otherwise.

 

[The30YardSlant]

What don't people get about it's not about if Martin was attacked? He was the aggressor from the beginning. He chased Trayvon. He deserved to get his head split. You don't go running after someone and think that person won't defend themselves.

How can you be on the offense and claim self-defense?

In any case, I'm just glad the nitwit got arrested. He shouldn't have followed him with a gun and the POS should have taken a beating like a man.

Men don't fight with guns, murderers do.

Morally, this has merit. Legally, it is irrelevant to the murder charge if at any point Trayvon's actions threatened Zimmerman's life, which now cannot be refuted beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[JonJon]

It isnt illegal, but manslaughter doesn't require someone doing anything illegal. It only requires negligent actions which directly lead to the death of another. I think if Zimmerman pursued the kid without any real cause and either confronted him/started the fight/pulled out his weapon prior to Trayvon injuring him/etc. then he could be convicted of manslaughter because Trayvon had no way of knowing who he was. Just because it was self-defense at the time of the shooting doesnt mean Zimmerman is without fault.

However, there is just no way he gets convicted of murder. A murder trial would essentially go like this...

Defense: Mr. Zimmerman, did you start the fight?

Zimmerman: No

Defense: Mr. Zimmerman, did you fear for your life when your head was being bashed into the concrete?

Zimmerman: Yes

Defense: Prosecuter, got anybody that can dispute this and prove that Mr. Zimmerman is not telling the truth?

Prosecution: *Crickets*

Case closed. If the only credible witness to the crime is Zimmerman they cannot possibly get him on murder with the given evidence because the prosecution has no way of removing reasonable doubt. Even if he were convicted by a biased jury, any judge worth their salt would throw the verdict out.

The Prosecutors will have the testimony of the young lady that was on the phone during the moments before the shooting took place. It will be interesting to hear her entire story before the courts. Also, the 911 calls and the screams in the background may be a determining factor that the prosecution could use. Both sides still say they have more evidence to support their respective claims, so I guess we will all have to wait and see what other evidence comes out.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

They should have been smarter and not charge him with murder when they knew he wouldn't be convicted of it, which then could cause a lot more outrage.

He'll have the opportunity to plea to a lessor charge, imo.