Some new evidence in the Zimmerman case

[Cajuncowboy]

What don't people get about it's not about if Martin was attacked? He was the aggressor from the beginning. He chased Trayvon. He deserved to get his head split. You don't go running after someone and think that person won't defend themselves.

How can you be on the offense and claim self-defense?

In any case, I'm just glad the nitwit got arrested. He shouldn't have followed him with a gun and the POS should have taken a beating like a man.

Men don't fight with guns, murderers do.

I carry a gin all the time. If someone attacks me I will shoot them dead. So I am a murderer? Should I take a beating "Like a man"?

 

[The30YardSlant]

My guess is he'll plea out to manslaughter.

This was what I originally thought as well, but at this point he may just put his hopes on the obvious incompetence of the prosecution. Let us not forget that they had this photo from the start and STILL chose to charge him with murder.

If the DA isnt careful, this guy is going to walk away from this without a single mark on his record.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

My guess is he'll plea out to manslaughter.

Why would he do that? He knows now they can't convict him of murder.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

This was what I originally thought as well, but at this point he may just put his hopes on the obvious incompetence of the prosecution. Let us not forget that they had this photo from the start and STILL chose to charge him with murder.

If the DA isnt careful, this guy is going to walk away from this without a single mark on his record.

Which is why they wanted to wait for evidence and charge him with a crime they could get a conviction on. It was the public ballyhoo that caused this situation.

 

[The30YardSlant]

The Prosecutors will have the testimony of the young lady that was on the phone during the moments before the shooting took place.

I know they will, and it won't matter. Zimmerman was a eye witness which trumps an auditory witness in a court of law. All the defense has to do is suggest that Trayvon was lying over the phone to her and that is that.

It will be interesting to hear her entire story before the courts. Also, the 911 calls and the screams in the background may be a determining factor that the prosecution could use. Both sides still say they have more evidence to support their respective claims, so I guess we will all have to wait and see what other evidence comes out.

The problem is that nobody can show who was screaming. And I'm sure the prosecution has more evidence, but unless they can present a credible eye witness to dispute Zimmerman's claim it won't matter. And the end of the day it will be a he said versus nobody said with physical evidence to support his claims.

 

[JonJon]

Well it changes the perspective some have since at first people were saying he was lying because there was no blood. Then there was the picture that showed he had some cuts and people said that it didn't look severe. Now we see this picture.

It doesn't "Prove" what Zimmerman said is true, but it is more evidence in his favor that it did happen.

And yes, I agree that Martin has a right to be defended as well. But let's not forget that Martin wasn't some small frail child as some would want you to believe. He had a history of being in fights and being suspended from school and so there is a degree of likelihood that he may have started the physical confrontation.

In the end, the facts will come out it will get sorted out. But either way, there will be people on both sides who won't be happy with the outcome regardless of the evidence.

I for one don't have a side. I just want to look at everything in total and see what the evidence says.

Zimmerman has a history of aggression as well, and from the evidence presented so far, it seems unlikely for Trayvon to just attack Zimmerman with the intent to kill for no reason. It seems more likely that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. But you are right in that all the facts available will come out and this will be sorted out by the courts, which is what many including myself have wanted from the beginning.

 

[Future]

I don't know that the pic looks real.

Something is off about it.

THe original police police report said that he was bleeding from the back of his head and that he had grass stains and moisture on the back of his shirt, both of which suggested a struggle.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Morally, this has merit. Legally, it is irrelevant to the murder charge if at any point Trayvon's actions threatened Zimmerman's life, which now cannot be refuted beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think it does have merit legally. We agree, but not wholly. Anyway, I think the outcome is manslaughter. Maybe he'll do a little time and then probation, but my guess is he'll be placed on felony probation due to how the police botched this case.

I have a hard time believing he was beaten up by Trayvon that badly. If you know anything about fighting/boxing, etc., then you know head cuts bleed the worst. It doesn't have to be a huge cut to bleed a lot. In fact, those are hardly bad wounds. I'm still thinking this could be resolved without taking the dude's life.

Justice will run its course now. Like I said, my problem was always with the police not arresting him. The legal system did its job. I can't say what I think that should be. Personally, I think the fat guy should do some time because you can't be the aggressor and claim self-defense at the same time.

If I'm walking at night and I see this same idiot running at me, I'd defend myself too. I just have a hard time seeing why a guy that big couldn't defend himself against someone so small.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

The Prosecutors will have the testimony of the young lady that was on the phone during the moments before the shooting took place. It will be interesting to hear her entire story before the courts. Also, the 911 calls and the screams in the background may be a determining factor that the prosecution could use. Both sides still say they have more evidence to support their respective claims, so I guess we will all have to wait and see what other evidence comes out.

Assume the screams were Martin's. I think the real question then would be why was he screaming. Was Zimmerman beating him while he was screaming? There would be marks on his body to show that. If there was marks on his body that showed he was beat on then it would stand to reason there would be evidence of bruised knuckles on Zimmerman's hands. If there is no evidence of that, then maybe Martin was screaming once he saw the gun pulled out.

I think the part of the picture we aren't getting is what does Martin's corpse tell us. Was he hit in the face? Was there bruises on Martin's knuckles? The point is, all we have is public evidence. We don't know if Martin turned on Zimmerman and confronted him. We do know that he initially approached Zimmerman in his car then ran off. Too much detail left to discover.

 

[JonJon]

Assume the screams were Martin's. I think the real question then would be why was he screaming. Was Zimmerman beating him while he was screaming? There would be marks on his body to show that. If there was marks on his body that showed he was beat on then it would stand to reason there would be evidence of bruised knuckles on Zimmerman's hands. If there is no evidence of that, then maybe Martin was screaming once he saw the gun pulled out.

I think the part of the picture we aren't getting is what does Martin's corpse tell us. Was he hit in the face? Was there bruises on Martin's knuckles? The point is, all we have is public evidence. We don't know if Martin turned on Zimmerman and confronted him. We do know that he initially approached Zimmerman in his car then ran off. Too much detail left to discover.

I honestly think this may be a part of the prosecutions evidence. They will have access to Martin's autopsy reports and photos. Obviously, they wouldn't release this information prior to trial.

One question I have regarding the bond hearing today, why did Zimmerman take the stand? He took the stand to apologize to the family and said that he didn't know whether Martin was armed or not. It seemed like a high risk, low reward type of thing, and I think he did more harm than good in the end.

 

[DFWJC]

This is totally inadmissable and beside the point, but given some of Martin's backgrown and things supposedly found in his school locker before he was expelled, there is a chance he actually was part of a group doing small-time robberies.

Again, even if that were true, the case would remain unchanged.
Just curious....has this crossed anyone else's mind?

 

[iceberg]

This is totally inadmissable and beside the point, but given some of Martin's backgrown and things supposedly found in his school locker before he was expelled, there is a chance he actually was part of a group doing small-time robberies.

Again, even if that were true, the case would remain unchanged.
Just curious....has this crossed anyone else's mind?

it's crossed my mind a lot. they found jewlery in his backback and a big screwdriver that could be used for leverage.

he said "that's not mine" so who's was it?

but questioning trayvons background isn't popular so it quickly gets dismissed and we call zimmerman fat.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I honestly think this may be a part of the prosecutions evidence. They will have access to Martin's autopsy reports and photos. Obviously, they wouldn't release this information prior to trial.

One question I have regarding the bond hearing today, why did Zimmerman take the stand? He took the stand to apologize to the family and said that he didn't know whether Martin was armed or not. It seemed like a high risk, low reward type of thing, and I think he did more harm than good in the end.

Probably because he legitimately feels sorry for what happened. He has worked with young men in the past and probably has a desire to help, not hurt.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

This is totally inadmissable and beside the point, but given some of Martin's backgrown and things supposedly found in his school locker before he was expelled, there is a chance he actually was part of a group doing small-time robberies.

Again, even if that were true, the case would remain unchanged.
Just curious....has this crossed anyone else's mind?

There is some pretty damning evidence elsewhere online about Martin's character, associations and some pics. He wasn't some wilting flower like they are trying to make you believe. I can easily see him turning on Zimmerman and starting the physical contact. I don't that he did, but I can see that from some of the information.

 

[JonJon]

Probably because he legitimately feels sorry for what happened. He has worked with young men in the past and probably has a desire to help, not hurt.

I get that, but it just didn't seem like a good idea watching it live. He had been wanting to speak to the family for some time now but had been denied, so his defense lawyer allowed him to take the stand this morning to do so while they were there. But Zimmerman went a little "off script" and the prosecution took advantage of this by trying to cross examine him on his apology.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I think you mean Zimmerman?

Yes....

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Any cut on that part of the head is going to bleed a lot. I know first hand.

I know. It doesn't take a lot to make it bleed either. EMS or whoever treated him, didn't see them as serious injuries either. If his head was beaten on the curb, I'd expect to see some head trauma--at least a concussion.

 

[justbob]

I don't know that the pic looks real.

Something is off about it.

No ___ It looks exactly real -----nothing one bit off

 

[justbob]

I know. It doesn't take a lot to make it bleed either. EMS or whoever treated him, didn't see them as serious injuries either. If his head was beaten on the curb, I'd expect to see some head trauma--at least a concussion.

No ----it would depend on a lot of factors what additional injuries ,scrapes , abrasions etc ----And some expected would be internal .

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I carry a gin all the time. If someone attacks me I will shoot them dead. So I am a murderer? Should I take a beating "Like a man"?

Yeah, I like you, Cajun. But I was always taught if you can't fight with fists, there is no use in fighting. I grew up being taught that it wasn't ok to throw the first punch, but it was to throw the last one.

I grew up with guns all around me. My friends were a lot of the agricultural type. I wore camouflage to school and most houses I lived in and visited had deer and stuff on the wall. So of course I shot guns and I know the power of guns.

Having said that, I see a certain amount of cowardice if someone pulls a gun unless it's an extreme circumstance, like someone breaking in your home, hurting your family, pulling a gun/knife on you.... I was just never taught to fight with anything other than my bare fists even though I grew up with guns.