Some perspective on Free

[waldoputty]

Fair enough. Drew Brees threw an interception on every 45th pass attempt last season. Cut him.

Phillip Rivers threw one in every 27.5 passes. He's definitely got to go because he's terrible.

Blake Bortles? No way Jacksonville should keep him since he throws an interception per every 39 passes.

3rd worst OT in sacks and pressures.
go compare him to drew brees

 

[RandyOh]

And I agree. OT should not be the main focus.
There are other positions that need to be addressed.

Maybe after FA ends and there is a June 1st or Training camp cut that fits the bill for what the Cowboys need - then go after it.
At this point you would know what $ value you will have to attach to that position.

And if Free retires the Salary CAP $ we get back.

If free retires or a June 1st cut that we cant pass up is available then totally go and get the replacement.

 

[waldoputty]

I understand everything you are saying. Trust me i will be just as happy as you will be when we find a better RT but your wanting to them to do what they have already came out and said they won't do at least 6 times this offeason one of the Jones or Garrett said they wont be big players in free agency. and does it matter how much they make? the man gives his players the best homefield as well as practice facility hands down in the NFL. some of that money has to go to those places. He treats his players like royalty.

i think $300M takes account of the expenditures - it is operating income.

 

[waldoputty]

If free retires or a June 1st cut that we cant pass up is available then totally go and get the replacement.

he is in his last year.
no need to wait on june 1.
you are only talking 2.5M of dead money.
by june 1, it is too late to get a decent FA

 

[RandyOh]

he is in his last year.
no need to wait on june 1.
you are only talking 2.5M of dead money.
by june 1, it is too late to get a decent FA

Lets say we go and get a better pass protecting RT for more money then Free would be making this year but he lacks the power to be a real asset in the run game. Have we made an upgrade?

 

[waldoputty]

Lets say we go and get a better pass protecting RT for more money then Free would be making this year but he lacks the power to be a real asset in the run game. Have we made an upgrade?

does wagner lack power in the run game?
does whitworth?

oh and btw, free's run stats went down last year also.
i forgot what they called it but i think it was below average last year.

 

[RandyOh]

does wagner lack power in the run game?
does whitworth?

you didn't answer my question. We are not guaranteed to get either one of them. All you talk about is Frees pass protection.

 

[RandyOh]

does wagner lack power in the run game?
does whitworth?

oh and btw, free's run stats went down last year also.
i forgot what they called it but i think it was below average last year.

actually Gmoney has shown before we was top 5 in yards running behind RT this past season.

 

[waldoputty]

you didn't answer my question. We are not guaranteed to get either one of them. All you talk about is Frees pass protection.

Ok, TO is #1 problem so I would take TOs over run blocking.
You can much easily scheme running plays than having the big liability at one OT position on passing downs.

 

[gimmesix]

Well for those who are for the Patriots way, what would they do.

I don't get why you keep bringing this up. I have no idea what the Patriots would do.

But just to play your game, I looked at New England's right tackle, Marcus Cannon, who had a fantastic year last year from all accounts. This is what was written about Cannon the previous year: "Backup tackle Marcus Cannon struggled when called upon in 2016. The Patriots' tackle depth was ripped to shreds by injury in 2015, when Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer and Cameron Fleming all missed time with injuries. Cannon was one of the first to step in as the team's top backup, but he was beat like a drum, and with almost the same rhythmic consistency."

Cannon had entered the league in 2011. He signed a two-year contract extension in 2014 worth $9 million despite having made just 11 starts in his first four years.

So you have a player who was considered awful in 2015 and was set to make more than Doug Free will this year in 2016. Did Belichick cut him?

Now, I'm not saying this expecting a turnaround from Free like Cannon had. Just that we shouldn't assume the Patriots would cut him if they had him.

 

[waldoputty]

I don't get why you keep bringing this up. I have no idea what the Patriots would do.

But just to play your game, I looked at New England's right tackle, Marcus Cannon, who had a fantastic year last year from all accounts. This is what was written about Cannon the previous year: "Backup tackle Marcus Cannon struggled when called upon in 2016. The Patriots' tackle depth was ripped to shreds by injury in 2015, when Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer and Cameron Fleming all missed time with injuries. Cannon was one of the first to step in as the team's top backup, but he was beat like a drum, and with almost the same rhythmic consistency."

Cannon had entered the league in 2011. He signed a two-year contract extension in 2014 worth $9 million despite having made just 11 starts in his first four years.

So you have a player who was considered awful in 2015 and was set to make more than Doug Free will this year in 2016. Did Belichick cut him?

Now, I'm not saying this expecting a turnaround from Free like Cannon had. Just that we shouldn't assume the Patriots would cut him if they had him.

LOL, you are comparing $7.5M AAV to $4.5M AAV???

 

[RandyOh]

Ok, TO is #1 problem so I would take TOs over run blocking.
You can much easily scheme running plays than having the big liability at one OT position on passing downs.

Thats nice and all but is this gonna come cheap? With all the holes and dire need of upgrades on defense is making RT the main priority smart? Lets look at our most recent superbowl winners. Pats, Broncos, Seahawks. I can say they all have one thing in common in how hey won. ill let you in on a secret. Their RT's was not reason they won. In fact All 3 of their QB's seemed to take much more of a beating then our Rookie QB did. They won because they had a defense that was just as good or better then their offense. We have one of the best offenses in the NFL. Patching RT for one season is not going the end of the world. Lets just agree to disagree because nothing you have told me has or will convince me that RT is much more important then the real holes we currently have on the team.

 

[gimmesix]

lol, you are talking about replacing the OT with the 3rd worst sacks and pressures.

With a player who has started one game in his four years in the league or one who has started two.

Your dream of Wagner is just that, a dream.

 

[gimmesix]

LOL, you are comparing $7.5M AAV to $4.5M AAV???

Cutting Free only saves us $5 million. Cannon's first year was around $2.5 to $3 million, so he was still on the books in 2016 for $6 or $6.5 million after his poor 2015 season. Cutting him would have saved the Patriots around $4 million, I believe.

 

[CWR]

Free is a better player than given credit for here. Much like Carr his criticism spiked with his contract. At the right price he is a solid veteran leader. Unfortunately for Free hes surrounded by excellence and he will not live up to the bar the other offensive lineman have risen. All this said Id be fine going with Chaz if he was reliable but he can not be counted on to be our only RT. If we were to go that route we would need a solid vet behind him.

 

[waldoputty]

Cutting Free only saves us $5 million. Cannon's first year was around $2.5 to $3 million, so he was still on the books in 2016 for $6 or $6.5 million after his poor 2015 season. Cutting him would have saved the Patriots around $4 million, I believe.

you are comparing cutting 1 year vs 2 years.
you need to multiply by 2x

 

[waldoputty]

Free is a better player than given credit for here. Much like Carr his criticism spiked with his contract. At the right price he is a solid veteran leader. Unfortunately for Free hes surrounded by excellence and he will not live up to the bar the other offensive lineman have risen. All this said Id be fine going with Chaz if he was reliable but he can not be counted on to be our only RT. If we were to go that route we would need a solid vet behind him.

Free's $5M base salary can easily bring in a superior RT with a year 1 salary cap impact that would actually be less than his base salary.

Carr's criticism was mostly based on salary.
Free on the other hand gave up the 3rd most sacks and pressures for all OTs.
That includes LTs that typically see the best OTs.

Here is the info on the worst rated OT who happens to be a FA
Even he sounds better than Free and is improving instead of declining:
After a rough start to the season, Pasztor turned things around and regularly graded as one of the Browns’ best players on offense. Considering guard might have been his projected strong suit, his work at right tackle for most of the year was admirable and his pass protection improved to match his run blocking.

 

[gimmesix]

you are comparing cutting 1 year vs 2 years.
you need to multiply by 2x

Free is on the last year of his deal. Cannon would have had one year left on his deal if he had been cut after 2015.

 

[waldoputty]

Free is on the last year of his deal. Cannon would have had one year left on his deal if he had been cut after 2015.

ok i see.
well how poor was his 2015 season?
free's 2016 can be arguably the worst passing RT in the NFL.
pasztor had worse pressure stats but better sack stats.
the key difference is pasztor got better as the year came around and was said to be one of the better OL on the browns.

 

[gimmesix]

ok i see.
well how poor was his 2015 season?
free's 2016 can be arguably the worst passing RT in the NFL.
pasztor had worse pressure stats but better sack stats.
the key difference is pasztor got better as the year came around and was said to be one of the better OL on the browns.

I don't know exactly. I tried to find some numbers, but all I've really found is commentary that said it was really, really bad. He was an eight-game starter that season. Pro Football Focus, for what it's worth, had him with an overall grade for 2015 that ranked him 61st at tackle. In pass protection, they ranked him 44th of 59 qualifying tackles that year. Hardy beat him bad when we played the Patriots to force a fumble by Brady. And I believe I read that he gave up 8 pressures and 2.5 sacks in the AFC Championship Game that year against Denver.