Some reflection and Draft thoughts

[Rayman70]

At the skill positions it's big play ability.

At other positions it's coach ability.

And leadership is always a top thing.

So it maybe you already have your leader in place in a group..

so you are looking for whatever else the position calls for.

Size, speed, quickness, intelligence.

And of course you look for players that want to be leaders but need time to get there.

So how do you blend all that?

It take years of success and failure.

Do not know if that answers anything.

which tightend do you like in the draft that embodies some of the traits you mentioned? I like Irv Smith and the Iowa kid.

 

[xwalker]

Mods move this if you need to over to the draft board. Anywho, What do you all look for in a draftee or UDFA? Is it one trait that trumps another or do you want the complete package? ...ie high character...speed or leadership? If you had tp choose ONE trait that you see for example in a guy like say, Ed Oliver or one of the top safeties in this draft, what would cause you to say, I want that guy over the other? For me, if we are talkin safety, I wanna guy that may not be a combine stud,but just balls like crazy on tape and makes the entire defense better. My guy at safety would need traits similar to Billy Bates back in the day and or Everson Walls. I REALLY like Adderly and Darnell Savage . I sure miss the days of instinctive players that had class and character...and were just good team guys that elevated the play. TO ME..thats why Earl Thomas would have been great. He's a throw back. Give me your thoughts.

Bates was not a very good Safety.

Walls was a CB.

Draft picks are about the probability of success. Over-focusing on any 1 aspect of players is bad strategy. Each player should be evaluated as a unique entity.

By #58 and later it becomes a trade-off on characteristics. Great talent with character questions, less talent but great character, injury issues, etc..

At Safety it's:
Run Defense
Pass Defense
Instincts
Athletic ability

There have been many great athletes that couldn't play Safety in the NFL.

There have also been limited athletes that managed to start at Safety but are most often a player that the D-Coordinator has to scheme around to keep from being exposed in coverage (Barry Church, Bill Bates for a short period).

For the Kris Richard scheme he made Kam Chancellor a Star player by taking advantage of his top end size/length despite limited speed. They signed a near clone (physically) of Chancellor in Iloka. It's difficult for fans/media to really put a value on size vs speed at SS in the KR scheme.

We saw what an advantage size/length can be for a player with Vander Esch. Obviously VE also has excellent speed, but there were many plays where his length allowed him to make some wow tackles by "reaching around" blockers. Taller defenders in that short/intermediate area also make the windows smaller for QBs trying to fit a pass between zone defenders.

Having said that, in the modern era (past decade) I would be very reluctant to use a premium pick on a limited athlete at Safety and that includes Strong Safeties.

The slow forty by Rapp could push him down to the Cowboys pick but his forty was really bad. If he ran a low 4.6 when the others are running 4.4x times it would be one thing, but he ran a 4.74 IIRC.

I think Rapp could definitely be utilized in some role on a NFL defense but I would be nervous about using a premium pick on a player with that big of a question mark on his measured time.

I need to review Rapp's game footage again.

 

[Rayman70]

I am impressed. People who actually understand what it means to get it. That's my most worthy my mr. Cowboy. Rodger Staubach Jason Witten Sean Lee the great Bob Lilly.

yup..ditto, well said. Jay Novacek was another unsung player for us. People don't understand just how good he was. My understanding is he was a leader in the lockerroom and a good person...another championship person with high character. That's no accident.

 

[Whirlwin]

I would go with character and instincts. with this intact you have the clay which to work with. our LB Vander Esch is a perfect example.
our avatar choices Mr Bates went undrafted. let that sink in for those whom never seen him play. Walls and forgive me but Ronny Lott was another instinctive player.

I used to post on the old Cowboys fan forum. My avatar was Bob Lilly with the torn Jersey. I have not found a way to implemented here yet.

 

[xwalker]

which tightend do you like in the draft that embodies some of the traits you mentioned? I like Irv Smith and the Iowa kid.

My review of Safeties in the draft:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/safeties-game-footage-review.431368/

 

[xwalker]

I used to post on the old Cowboys fan forum. My avatar was Bob Lilly with the torn Jersey. I have not found a way to implemented here yet.

Do you have the photo?

 

[BillyBates]

I used to post on the old Cowboys fan forum. My avatar was Bob Lilly with the torn Jersey. I have not found a way to implemented here yet.

well howdy pard your home....do you remember the old blue bars too ?

 

[Whirlwin]

yup..ditto, well said. Jay Novacek was another unsung player for us. People don't understand just how good he was. My understanding is he was a leader in the lockerroom and a good person...another championship person with high character. That's no accident.

If you look at my avatar in the top left corner I actually have the entire starting offense 6 by 9 autograph photographs of the entire starting offense. Woodson on defense also couldn't leave him out. I think I paid like $65 for Emmitt Smith's it was at a charity auction

 

[Rayman70]

Bates was not a very good Safety.

Walls was a CB.

Draft picks are about the probability of success. Over-focusing on any 1 aspect of players is bad strategy. Each player should be evaluated as a unique entity.

By #58 and later it becomes a trade-off on characteristics. Great talent with character questions, less talent but great character, injury issues, etc..

At Safety it's:
Run Defense
Pass Defense
Instincts
Athletic ability

There have been many great athletes that couldn't play Safety in the NFL.

There have also been limited athletes that managed to start at Safety but are most often a player that the D-Coordinator has to scheme around to keep from being exposed in coverage (Barry Church, Bill Bates for a short period).

For the Kris Richard scheme he made Kam Chancellor a Star player by taking advantage of his top end size/length despite limited speed. They signed a near clone (physically) of Chancellor in Iloka. It's difficult for fans/media to really put a value on size vs speed at SS in the KR scheme.

We saw what an advantage size/length can be for a player with Vander Esch. Obviously VE also has excellent speed, but there were many plays where his length allowed him to make some wow tackles by "reaching around" blockers. Taller defenders in that short/intermediate area also make the windows smaller for QBs trying to fit a pass between zone defenders.

Having said that, in the modern era (past decade) I would be very reluctant to use a premium pick on a limited athlete at Safety and that includes Strong Safeties.

The slow forty by Rapp could push him down to the Cowboys pick but his forty was really bad. If he ran a low 4.6 when the others are running 4.4x times it would be one thing, but he ran a 4.74 IIRC.

I think Rapp could definitely be utilized in some role on a NFL defense but I would be nervous about using a premium pick on a player with that big of a question mark on his measured time.

I need to review Rapp's game footage again.

yup I wouldn't wanna draft Rapp at 58...that scares me. He has a high boom or bust factor. Reminds me of Kenny Vaccaro.Bates didn't need to be starting quality.That was never his deal. He was a badass on special teams and role player in the dime,nickel. Jjack of all trades and he mastered being a special teams ace and leader. He was everything you want in a guy on a team. LOVED THE GAME,HIS TEAMMATES, AND wanted to win...expected to win...not with words,but by his play. That's what I want in a player. LVE gives me hope...he and Sean Lee have that.

 

[Whirlwin]

well howdy pard your home....do you remember the old blue bars too ?

I wish I could have brought my Landry's hat with me. I worked hard for that lol

 

[Rayman70]

If you look at my avatar in the top left corner I actually have the entire starting offense 6 by 9 autograph photographs of the entire starting offense. Woodson on defense also couldn't leave him out. I think I paid like $65 for Emmitt Smith's it was at a charity auction

cool, awesome!! I have a Emmitt autographed ball...circa 1995.

 

[Rayman70]

Ready for the draft already lol... lets get this thing started.

 

[Whirlwin]

Do you have the photo?

No but I know how to get it online how to choose it. I tried to copy and paste it it won't let me. I probably would have to save it somewhere on my drive. But then I don't know how to retrieve it that's my problem I can't get it from the internet to my drive to the Forum

 

[BillyBates]

I wish I could have brought my Landry's hat with me. I worked hard for that lol

lmao that was allot of typing too earn that man.

 

[Whirlwin]

I am a Cowboy fan but I am also a football fan. Troy Polamalu one of my favorite players and I hate the Steelers LOL

 

[Whirlwin]

lmao that was allot of typing too earn that man.

100000 post and I never pressed the report button. I was actually pretty proud of that fighting my own battles. It wasn't difficult I believe people should have their own opinions and you shouldn't get upset because they're different.

 

[xwalker]

yup I wouldn't wanna draft Rapp at 58...that scares me. He has a high boom or bust factor. Reminds me of Kenny Vaccaro.Bates didn't need to be starting quality.That was never his deal. He was a badass on special teams and role player in the dime,nickel. Jjack of all trades and he mastered being a special teams ace and leader. He was everything you want in a guy on a team. LOVED THE GAME,HIS TEAMMATES, AND wanted to win...expected to win...not with words,but by his play. That's what I want in a player. LVE gives me hope...he and Sean Lee have that.

Yes, Bates was a great ST player.

What I find funny however is that fans loved Bates but hate Jeff Heath.

Heath is a better Safety than Bates on his best day.

 

[Whirlwin]

I Have Been a Cowboy fan in the military overseas all you could watch was the Cowboys. How could you not love the star and what it represented. That doesn't mean I was actually a fan of every team we fielded. But I definitely supported them. I suffered to Smith dropping the ball in the end zone against the Steelers. To the one in 15 season. With Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson

 

[xwalker]

No but I know how to get it online how to choose it. I tried to copy and paste it it won't let me. I probably would have to save it somewhere on my drive. But then I don't know how to retrieve it that's my problem I can't get it from the internet to my drive to the Forum

Do you know the link to it or can you describe it such that I can find it?

 

[Whirlwin]

Yes, Bates was a great ST player.

What I find funny however is that fans loved Bates but hate Jeff Heath.

Heath is a better Safety than Bates on his best day.

I tend to believe, people love money players names. I'd much rather have an entire team of football players. People that want to make that name. But that's old school football. Maybe not I'm sure there's still people that love football players you don't win championships you need a good balance of both though