CFZ Sometimes you can have too many developmental players

[TheMarathonContinues]

Ugh this again! The Cowboys didn't like Torrence. On draft day Solari told the guys on the draft coverage that they are looking for "athletic" offensive linemen and didn't feel he was.

Man the way people talk about Torrence you’d think he’s the second coming or Zack Martin.

 

[big dog cowboy]

It’s a process.

 

[USArmyVet]

Funny to read so many homer comments to an unbiased, well thought out thread.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

They could’ve. They didn’t like the guards there.

I love when someone posts that like it’s some sort of revelation. Torrence is a mountain but Dallas doesn’t run the type of scheme that uses those guys. There are a few outliers but those plodders are mostly on the way out, see Wyatt Davis a guy many here were in the love with two years ago who was drafted in the second round and is on his fourth team already. And Larry Allen Jr. aka Torrence isn’t projected to start over the Bills version of Matt Farinok.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I love when someone posts that like it’s some sort of revelation. Torrence is a mountain but Dallas doesn’t run the type of scheme that uses those guys. There are a few outliers but those plodders are mostly on the way out, see Wyatt Davis a guy many here were in the love with two years ago who was drafted in the second round and is on his fourth team already. And Larry Allen Jr. aka Torrence isn’t projected to start over the Bills version of Matt Farinok.

That’s how it is around here. A mock draft says a guy should go at a certain point and they hold on to that name for years and typically that guy either flops or we never hear of him again…except TJ Watt….but that’s more of snd revisionist history thing.

 

[Aven8]

Hard to pay for decent backups when your Guard is holding out wanting more money while still under contract. We really only need a backup Guard and OT come regular season.

 

[stilltheguru]

They could’ve. They didn’t like the guards there.

Cz pretending they watched buffalo's preseason to watch Torrance lol. Same way Mr Light it up Kincaid didn't do anything. They love to pick and choose on here

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Cz pretending they watched buffalo's preseason to watch Torrance lol. Same way Mr Light it up Kincaid didn't do anything. They love to pick and choose on here

I’m convinced they haven’t even seen Torrence play at all.

 

[Bobhaze]

C'mon Bob, Chasing your narratives too hard causes you to face plant. As you have here.

Developmental Projects!?

-Kelvin was viewed by draft consensus as a near-ready CB. The caveat? He was a head case with lots of concerns.
-Jabril Cox was viewed by draft consensus as a near-ready LB, without the caveats. For whatever reason he just hasn't developed.
-Isaac Alarcorn is an ongoing public relations stunt whom the Cowboys have always known would never see the field (no draft pick/cap hit involved)
-Wright is a guy who matched Q's profile. Might work. Might not.

Not even one of these guys are validly described as "developmental project."

My message to you: Don't diminish your fine brand with this nonsense, nor attempt to falsely leverage it and think someone won't notice.

The only reason they’ve kept KJ is they are hoping he develops. Isn't that a developmental project? If you draft a guy in the 2nd round and he’s not starting after 3 years, why are you keeping him around?

With Cox, he was drafted to be ready. We have kept him hoping he would develop. Why are both these guys not now considered developmental?

 

[Teague31]

Cap boy loves him some cheap “talent”

 

[Bobhaze]

8 developmental players on a 53 man roster. That’s probably the norm around the NFL. You get 7 draftees, a handful of undrafteds and a handful of free agents. Hopelly out of all that you come away with 5-10 legit contributors. That’s not a big yearly turnaround and development is a necessary part of it. At least we’re seeing an actual process and not just throwing that word around for 10 years!

IMO- The problem isn’t having 8. It’s having at least 4 in one position group.

 

[Captain-Crash]

what did Bill Belichick tell Jimmy? That is where we are at. wannabe rapping gangster killer.

 

[BleedSilverandBlue]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

Not every player on your roster is going to be an NFL caliber starter. This is the nature of the league. These players aren't "developmental projects", they are late round draft picks. Look at any roster in the league, and the majority of it will be players like those which you just listed. Nothing about this is unique to the Cowboys.

I'm all for churning the bottom of the roster, and agree that it may be time to think about moving on from some of these guys, but to think you can just add legit talent to replace them and fill in the bottom of the roster just is not realistic. Sure, dump Josh Ball, KJ, and Cox, they've all shown pretty much nothing, but who do you think you are going to replace them with? The answer is just three other dudes from other teams' trash piles.

Alarcon is on an international pathway exemption. He is essentially a free roster spot and does not matter. Your options are basically either bring in an international player at essentially no cost, or just forgo the opportunity to have an extra camp body that may eventually turn into something. Again, nothing about this is unique to the Cowboys.

Generally, if you like a player enough to draft them, it is wise to give them a few seasons to mature and develop if they show even a hint of the potential that you saw during the scouting process.

Do I think Dallas has an OL depth issue which could cause their Superbowl aspirations to falter? Yeah, I do, but the narrative about "developmental projects" is a non-story. What this really is about is missing on a few late round OL players recently. To build good depth, you need to hit on a few of these. Look no further than the DB room for a good example of this. Daron Bland is a day three pick that came in and tore it up. If you didn't have him last season, DB depth would have been a massive problem with the Lewis and Brown injuries. Eric Scott is also looking like another great find. All of a sudden you have really good depth at CB.

 

[speedkilz88]

Man the way people talk about Torrence you’d think he’s the second coming or Zack Martin.

Still behind Ryan Bates & Connor McGovern is the other starting guard.

 

[Big_D]

IMO- The problem isn’t having 8. It’s having at least 4 in one position group.

The most difficult to fill. You’re not going to be sitting 10 deep on Oline without holes elsewhere. That’s probably the most important area to hit on developmental players. They had a line full of first rounders at one point and went nowhere because of the many problems elsewhere! It’s a large roster and even out of the 4 you list, 3 are probably on the practice squad.

 

[speedkilz88]

The only reason they’ve kept KJ is they are hoping he develops. Isn't that a developmental project? If you draft a guy in the 2nd round and he’s not starting after 3 years, why are you keeping him around?

With Cox, he was drafted to be ready. We have kept him hoping he would develop. Why are both these guys not now considered developmental?

If they didn't need development they would be starters.

 

[Bobhaze]

Cowboys have one of the best rosters in the league. If you have a problem with their approach or the team they’ve built then you aren’t being realistic. This is not the 90s. There’s a salary cap..

Jags looked sharper….uhhh yeah because those were starters you were watching against our 2nd and 3rd string guys lol.

All in all there’s no reason to nitpick over a preseason game. I know the excitement is back but that game meant nothing and the only real concern should be who the kicker is.

I agree the Cowboys have a very good roster. I’m just pointing out an area of weakness for this team IMO. My opinion is that a team can have too many players that are “developing”, especially in the weakest position group we have.

I didn’t say cut all those guys and I didn’t say we should have drafted an OL earlier. I’m just saying if we expect to win now, we need to cut loose a couple of these developmental projects IF….IF we can pick up 1-2 decent veterans on the waiver wire.

And I’m certainly not basing this opinion on last night’s ps game alone. I believed this before kickoff yesterday. I just believe it even more so today.

If they didn't need development they would be starters.

Not necessarily. You can find a decent veteran player who may have already been a starter but is nearing the end of a career. You can draft young guys who can fill a role immediately- like DaRon Bland last year, maybe Eric Scott this year. You don’t have to be an immediate starter to have an effective role on the team.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I agree the Cowboys have a very good roster. I’m just pointing out an area of weakness for this team IMO. My opinion is that a team can have too many players that are “developing”, especially in the weakest position group we have.

I didn’t say cut all those guys and I didn’t say we should have drafted an OL earlier. I’m just saying if we expect to win now, we need to cut loose a couple of these developmental projects IF….IF we can pick up 1-2 decent veterans on the waiver wire.

And I’m certainly not basing this opinion on last night’s ps game alone. I believed this before kickoff yesterday. I just believe it even more so today.

I think though a lot of those guys you listed aren’t projects though. And even if they were we are deep at those positions. I don’t consider Joseph and Wright to be projects but let’s say they are. That’s the deepest position on our team arguably. The offensive line has some issues for sure. But I’m not sure those guys are projects I just think they either aren’t that good or still developing. I think Ball is cooked.

 

[BleedSilverandBlue]

Man the way people talk about Torrence you’d think he’s the second coming or Zack Martin.

He's going to be DJ Fluker 2.0. He's got potential to turn into something, but the dude is out of shape and does not fit in the modern NFL. You need your offensive linemen to be able to move, and Torrence has cement blocks for feet. He will never be a factor picking up blocks on the second level.

I could very well be wrong, but I think Torrence fell in the draft for a reason.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

Later round selection success is way too low for OL, they need to start including an OL in the top three draft rounds more often or adopt blocking schemes for which ideal OL characteristics are easier to find.