CFZ Sometimes you can have too many developmental players

[JoeKing]

@Bobhaze "win now" type offensive linemen don't grow on trees, they are developed. Not having "enough" is commonplace in the NFL. You saw what you saw during the first preseason game is b/c the coaching staff needs to evaluate the younger talent under real battle conditions. It's to be expected to be seeing developmental players getting a chance to sink or swim. It's no reflection of what we really have at OL when the games count. Our OL dogs will be back when it matters. Biadasz, Martin, Steele, and the T. Smith boys are a fine O line. Meanwhile, get used to seeing developmental players trying to get better in preseason games. Too many.

 

[Techsass]

Pass2Run is right on this. Rams path was ridiculous. And no, the penalty isn't a losing season or two. That price tag is abject irrelevancy for up to 4 full seasons.

The Rams had just returned to LA & bought a new mega show place stadium in a city that has a bad history of supporting NFL teams. They tried to buy a ready made SB team in order to get people excited enough to become hard core fans.

I think their mistake was/is that LA is a basketball town. I remember spending a week in St. Louis back while the Rams were still "The greatest show on turf". All of the locals at the training campus were die hard baseball fanatics. Every time any of us visitors tried talking football, they'd just try to change the conversation over to baseball - and this was November in the middle of football season.

 

[T-RO]

The Rams had just returned to LA & bought a new mega show place stadium in a city that has a bad history of supporting NFL teams. They tried to buy a ready made SB team in order to get people excited enough to become hard core fans.

Agreed. It was a money play and the league did their part to ensure Rams success.

When you look at all of Southern Cal...and the adjoining population in Northern Mexico...it's a monumental sports market. Goodell and gang made their push to crack it. If they gained 100k of addicted compulsive gamblers...sucking the lifeblood from more families....league calls it a win.

 

[DandyDon52]

Did you bother to find out why? Things just don't happen without a reason. It was the holders fault but instead you throw shade at the kicker unnecessarily.

thats all in your mind lol.
All I said was he missed one. I didnt see it hence the ?

 

[Bobhaze]

Pass2Run is right on this. Rams path was ridiculous. And no, the penalty isn't a losing season or two. That price tag is abject irrelevancy for up to 4 full seasons.

With a Lombardi in their trophy case. I would rather win a Lombardi at the cost of 4 losing seasons than having 28 seasons of mostly mediocrity. IMO The ultimate relevance for any team is winning a championship not having a bunch of occasional wild card wins over 3 decades.

 

[DandyDon52]

Cowboys have one of the best rosters in the league. If you have a problem with their approach or the team they’ve built then you aren’t being realistic. This is not the 90s. There’s a salary cap..

Jags looked sharper….uhhh yeah because those were starters you were watching against our 2nd and 3rd string guys lol.

All in all there’s no reason to nitpick over a preseason game. I know the excitement is back but that game meant nothing and the only real concern should be who the kicker is.

most of the game was our low level guys vs their low level guys.
I said nothing about the dallas roster, none of their 1st string guys played.
I look at how well do the guys that play execute. What are the coaches trying to achieve.

Jags went on 4th downs, and 2 point plays, and got their starters some game practice.
I thought overall jags executed better than dallas.

I watched the denver cards game, and the new hc there has got them playing vg, installed a new culture. they will give the cowboys
a hard time later on. Cards looked better than denver who played their starters including wilson way into the 2nd qrt.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

most of the game was our low level guys vs their low level guys.
I said nothing about the dallas roster, none of their 1st string guys played.
I look at how well do the guys that play execute. What are the coaches trying to achieve.

Jags went on 4th downs, and 2 point plays, and got their starters some game practice.
I thought overall jags executed better than dallas.

I watched the denver cards game, and the new hc there has got them playing vg, installed a new culture. they will give the cowboys
a hard time later on. Cards looked better than denver who played their starters including wilson way into the 2nd qrt.

I mean those are new teams and young players so they are going to take preseason a little more serious.

 

[blueblood70]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

In my humble opinion, I don't think Fariknok is a project.. I think he is your swing guard slash center he may not be all world but for a seventh-round pick to me he he's at least on Conor mcgovern's level.. And putting a A. Richards on there before we even see what the guy can do that's also a little bit of a stretch on your part.. how do we know he's a project ? how do we know he's not a diamond in the rough like the next coming of at least Tyler Smith let's give the young players a chance before you add them to the list and yes on the defensive side all those guys probably gonna be cut or at least three out of four..

I think what gets lost on fans here is when you have your starters out there like 95% of your starters on the field and you simply have to replace one of them with one of these backups that's how you should be evaluating them not when you have all those offensive lineman together on the field in a preseason game you have a bunch of scattered pieces of backups playing right next to each other without a game plan without any schemes but when you take fair knock and you put them at left or right guard temporarily or at center temporarily he'll look a lot more solid than he looks when he's with the rest of the backups.. I think fans forget this I mean it's kinda hard to evaluate these players on the offensive line in preseason or training camp when they're not playing with the number ones..

 

[Ranching]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

No! You are wrong on this

 

[Verdict]

The only reason they’ve kept KJ is they are hoping he develops. Isn't that a developmental project? If you draft a guy in the 2nd round and he’s not starting after 3 years, why are you keeping him around?

With Cox, he was drafted to be ready. We have kept him hoping he would develop. Why are both these guys not now considered developmental?

I have to agree with you on the rapper. That was a forced pick from the word “go” and we have seen almost nothing from him other than special teams play.

I guess special teams is better than nothing but doesn’t warrant a second round pick. I would be looking hard at moving on from him.

 

[Verdict]

The OL does have too many development players which is why I preferred a Guard instead of TE.

I did not get the Schoonmaker pick at all for multiple reasons. I hope it turns out to be a fantastic pick but I think the pick was a poor allocation of RSS.

 

[Creeper]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

I cannot disagree with you, but I think a lot of teams are carrying more rookie contracts these days because of the salary CAP. I think your assessments are fair though. I also think we will see some of these guys get cut this year. Ball is one of them. I think they will give Waletzko one more year. Farniok is on the bubble I think. He really struggles pass blocking but he is, IMO a very good run blocker. I still think he is a C not a G though. Asim Richards looked better than Ball and Waletzko in his first preseason game - at LG. I'd like to see him get some starting time at LG in the preseason just to see if he can handle starting caliber DTs.

Alarcon needs a lot more time to develop into a DT. He may never make it, but they love his determination and work ethic.

Wright and Joseph are backups, and always will be. They may make the team but when their rookie deals are up they will both be gone and replaced by new rookies. You left Fehoko, Bohanna and Golston off your list too.

Jabril Cox looks like he lost a step since his injury but it was one game. He had a couple of nice solo tackles against the Jags in limited playing time, but he looks lost sometimes. I think he will be good enough to play in the NFL, but the Cowboys have Clark, Overshown and Harper now. Cox is going to lose the numbers game I think.

 

[StarOfGlory]

I read somewhere a few years ago a football writer suggested that the football talent pool could adequately support no more than 24-28 teams. Having 32 is a nice round number for the math of it all. But I would have been happy to stay at 28. Expansion was never based on anything more than additional revenue and expanding the market.

Anyone who watches sports should know this already. I'm sure you do. The NBA is no different. There is a reason NBA playoff teams usually play only 7-8 players--the rest are just JAGS that help stars pad their stats. The average size of a NBA player is 6'6", 216 pounds. How many people in the world are even 6'6"? Same for the NFL. The average offensive lineman is 6'4 1/2", 316 pounds. How many people are that size, let alone athletic enough to even think about being on a field?

The people that play in the NFL and NBA are outliers in the human race. There are only so many humans that can perform in those sports at a high level.

 

[charron]

I did not get the Schoonmaker pick at all for multiple reasons. I hope it turns out to be a fantastic pick but I think the pick was a poor allocation of RSS.

Same. I also hope one of these development guys steps up. Maybe edoga will be fine once he's healthy i don't know. What I do know is if the OL faulted this offense is going to have a very rough time

 

[BleedSilverandBlue]

Isaac Alarcon's exemption status under that program expired with the beginning of the NFL 2023 "New Year" = this past offseason.
Him remaining with the Cowboys past the new mass cutdown date on August 29th will count as a spot on the 53-player roster, or the practice squad (10).
Alacron will no longer be with the Cowboys as a player when the calendar turns to September.

Yes, but my point still stands. He isn't and hasn't been consuming a roster spot that could be used by a standard American player. He had his chance and will be off of this roster come September.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Pass2Run is right on this. Rams path was ridiculous. And no, the penalty isn't a losing season or two. That price tag is abject irrelevancy for up to 4 full seasons.

Oh no! 4 season of irrelevancy as the price for a SB win. The horrors! I mean, it's one thing to win nothing for going on 30 years, but don't ever consider doing what the Rams did.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Their starters struggled against the Dallas backups too. Guarantee Pederson thought his starters would run down the field for a drive, score a touchdown and be done. Instead they got picked on their first drive and stopped again on their second. Then he put them out there again after a turnover so he didn’t sabotage their confidence. If the shoe was on the other foot this place would be in full meltdown

This is essentially how I assess preseason games. When it’s over, I ask, “which sideline would I rather be on?” It was a narrow result for this game, but given the performance of J-ville’s starters, I’d rather be on the Cowboys sideline.