CFZ Sometimes you can have too many developmental players

[Mannix]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

Agree 100 Bob Haze....been saying for years that there is ZERO risk in continually churning the roster....especially when you've given JAGs 2, 3, and 4 years to show anything, and they haven't.

 

[Bobhaze]

Agree 100 Bob Haze....been saying for years that there is ZERO risk in continually churning the roster....especially when you've given JAGs 2, 3, and 4 years to show anything, and they haven't.

This organization has too often had a habit of having “pet cats“ and the ”we like our guys” syndrome. If winning a championship is the goal, keeping a bunch of guys who after 3 years are barely backups (like Ball, KJ and Cox) is not good roster management if you’re serious about winning.

I‘m not saying cut all the developmental guys but I am saying this GM and FO has had a tendency to overvalue their own Day 3 picks. Not always, just more often than should happen again- if winning a championship this year is the goal.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

This organization has too often had a habit of having “pet cats“ and the ”we like our guys” syndrome. If winning a championship is the goal, keeping a bunch of guys who after 3 years are barely backups (like Ball, KJ and Cox) is not good roster management if you’re serious about winning.

I‘m not saying cut all the developmental guys but I am saying this GM and FO has had a tendency to overvalue their own Day 3 picks. Not always, just more often than should happen again- if winning a championship this year is the goal.

All of those guys are starting their third year. The team has been much more active on waiver wire and later additons.

Peters Barr Hilton Mullen Alexander Rhodes

That’s just last season. You also might note most of those guys sucked.

 

[Cowboyny]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

Use the Landry 3 year rule, if they don't make an impact after 3 seasons, draft or find his replacement. They may have already started that process with the drafting of Scott, Overshown, Richards.

 

[John813]

OL is a position, especially with the Tackle spots that gets overdrafted.
Look at the 2020 draft. There are development projects even taken in round 1.

Out of the 4 offensive linemen, 1 is a rookie, one missed his rookie season(Waldo), one has been bounced around and the other has started a few games.
I'm not taking it too literally, but almost every player drafted in day 3 is a developmental prospect or injury red flag or character red flag. There are some hidden gems that can play right away or there are some that need a few years or will never pan out at all. But that's true for any round drafted player.

For every Joseph or Wright, there's guys like Brown or Bland, or Diggs that aren't drafted in day 1 that developed in a year or so into an average starter or very good player. Or for Cox there's guys like Clark and possibly OVershown that could be considered good players. You can't tell me that the team knew Bland and Brown were going to be developmental players

I'm honestly confused by the thread. There is no guaranteed non developmental OL/CB/WR/LB/DT/S round. This fanbase has been spoiled by the first round hits, but there's no guarantee that taking one in the first guarantees success. Most players need a year or two before they could possibly develop into role/+players.
Teams need players on ELC contracts. Every team has developmental players. Most teams don't even have quality starts in most positions but still have 53 man rosters + PS squad. What's the alternative? Signing a vet off the street? Are they guaranteed to be better just because they are a vet?
Players will bust. It is what it is. But there's no reason to simply give up on a cheap player unless they have poor attitudes and it's clear on and off the field they won't get it.

Steele was an UDFA Tackle prospect that needed a few years to develop. I don't see too many complaining about him anymore.

The team was high on Matt W last year. Maybe it was bs fluff or there's something there or maybe he'll just suck. But there's no reason to simply cut them to simply cut "developmental" players. We have starters in front of them.

 

[CouchCoach]

There are too many developmental players because there aren't enough quality players to fill just the starting positions. There are not 32 quality players at any position, including QB.

The NFL expanded, and will continue to do so, beyond the available talent. Compound that with injuries and the quality of the game is not close to what it was 30 years ago and the salaries are going to continue rising on a sliding scale not based on comparisons but lack of options at the postion, just as we have seen with the QB salaries.

 

[Bobhaze]

There are too many developmental players because there aren't enough quality players to fill just the starting positions. There are not 32 quality players at any position, including QB.

The NFL expanded, and will continue to do so, beyond the available talent. Compound that with injuries and the quality of the game is not close to what it was 30 years ago and the salaries are going to continue rising on a sliding scale not based on comparisons but lack of options at the postion, just as we have seen with the QB salaries.

I read somewhere a few years ago a football writer suggested that the football talent pool could adequately support no more than 24-28 teams. Having 32 is a nice round number for the math of it all. But I would have been happy to stay at 28. Expansion was never based on anything more than additional revenue and expanding the market.

The lack of supportive talent for 32 teams is why we have a severely skewed market for the QB position. Too many teams can’t find even an adequate QB so when they do find- not a superstar- just a good starter- the market supply and demand causes the prices for QBs to be so high.

 

[buybuydandavis]

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

Farniok is a not horrible C backup option.

Ball seems a completely unserious 1st up G backup.

With Edoga out there's nothing 1st up at T either.

Hope they already have a handshake deal with Peters. He could stroll onto the team and be our best backup at 4 ol positions.

 

[buybuydandavis]

He isn't talking about their draft position, he is talking about where they are as players right now. I have to say I agree 100% with this post. This O-line is one injury away from disaster and derailing the season, not to mention getting our QB killed. The Cowboys front office needs to give up a draft pick or two to get some veteran offensive line help on this team during pre-season to give time for the new additions to gel. We need to identify who the starting tackles are and who we need to backup as quality in case we have injuries. The last few years, the injuries have piled up on the line. This is piss poor planning by the team. For some reason, every year they have to act cavalier on a certain position group or player that ends up biting them in the ***. The OL is their problem this year, and it's not a good one.

I agree about the lack of quality backups.

Big trouble if we need a backup long term, but could get by with Peters as our short term backup at 4 spots.

 

[Motorola]

Alarcon is on an international pathway exemption. He is essentially a free roster spot and does not matter.

Isaac Alarcon's exemption status under that program expired with the beginning of the NFL 2023 "New Year" = this past offseason.
Him remaining with the Cowboys past the new mass cutdown date on August 29th will count as a spot on the 53-player roster, or the practice squad (10).
Alacron will no longer be with the Cowboys as a player when the calendar turns to September.

 

[Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius]

of the 8 you mention half should be practice squad or gone but my guess is outside of Alacarn they will all be here because of numbers at the position they play or their draft status. We need help on the OL Ball is garbage Waletzco is concernimng as well and without a doubt they will be relied upon

But hey the good news is we have a second round TE that may start by week 8

Hey the GOOD NEWS IS We have an undrafted guy who looks like a Keeper but hey piss and Moan guys, It's the CZ way !!!!

 

[Pass2Run]

The fallacy I see in your reasoning here is the false dilemma you present: trying to win now or down the road.

Both.

 

[charron]

The OL does have too many development players which is why I preferred a Guard instead of TE.

 

[DCwarrior]

 

[Bobhaze]

The fallacy I see in your reasoning here is the false dilemma you present: trying to win now or down the road.

Both.

I completely disagree.

Because when winning a championship is the ultimate goal, the present is more important than the future. We can control NOW much better than the future so in that sense, NOW is way more important if winning a championship is the goal. I would say the “win now and in the future“ thinking is exactly what has led this organization to the last 28 seasons. Jerry seems to care more about being relevant than being a champion.

I would add that you should think about the future, but if we put a percentage on it- have 90% of your thinking focused on NOW and only about 10% on the future. The future matters of course. But would I trade a Lombardi this year for two losing seasons? In a heartbeat!

 

[john van brocklin]

It was a pre-season game last night, so some of the fan reactions were overblown of course. But one reaction that may be on target is wondering if our backup OL are really capable backups. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, I have been seeing perhaps too many “developmental“ type guys and not enough “win now” guys as OL backups.

If this is a Super Bowl caliber team as we all hope (and are being told by our owner/GM) I have a serious question: Are we trying to win a championship NOW or are we trying to rebuild for a championship down the road?
The answer to that question by our front office will undoubtedly be- “Both”.

But I contend that it’s possible to have too many developmental players. Having 4-5 on an entire roster is good. Having 4 on an entire position group like the OL is playing with fire. Especially if “winning now” is the goal.

Look at how many “projects” we currently have on the OL:

• Josh Ball- (4th round 2021)
• Matt Farniok (7th round 2021)
• Matt Waletzko (5th round 2022)
• Asim Richards (5th round 2023)

All of these guys are Day 3 draft picks, usually slotted as backups and developmental projects.

Let’s be honest- Josh Ball is bad. If we take off the fan glasses and are being objective, he’s not very good. Farniok is probably way further along than Ball, but in his 3rd year, he’s not exactly tearing it up. His ability to play C, G and maybe occasionally swing T gives him some leeway. Waletzko is very raw and this is really like his first year because of an injury last year. Richards is a rookie and it’s just too early to know what he’s going to be.

And we haven’t even talked about other developmental projects:

• Kelvin Joseph (2nd round, 2021)
• Nahshon Wright (3rd round, 2021)
• Issac Alarcon (UFA)
• Jabril Cox (4th round 2021)

KJ has shown very little at CB. He’s been good on STs but for a second rounder starting his 3rd season to not even be close to starting is ridiculous. Yes he has a lot of talent. But it hasn’t translated yet. Nahshon Wright has been less than stellar and he’s also in year 3. The additions of DeRon Bland and Eric Scott- both flashed early and are looking good also makes Wright and KJ expendable. Cox was thought to be capable of starting by now but he’s been very slow to develop. Alarcon is a feel good story but that better suited for a Disney movie than a championship roster.

Bottom line for me- it’s time to cut bait with several of these players. There will be some good players available when final roster cuts are made by other teams. Having too many guys we are supposed to be patient with can spell disaster if a starter goes down and misses more than a game.

IMO- It’s time to move on with several of these guys.

We love OUR guys!
To a fault, lol

 

[Pass2Run]

I completely disagree.

Because when winning a championship is the ultimate goal, the present is more important than the future. We can control NOW much better than the future so in that sense, NOW is way more important if winning a championship is the goal. I would say the “win now and in the future“ thinking is exactly what has led this organization to the last 28 seasons. Jerry seems to care more about being relevant than being a champion.

I would add that you should think about the future, but if we put a percentage on it- have 90% of your thinking focused on NOW and only about 10% on the future. The future matters of course. But would I trade a Lombardi this year for two losing seasons? In a heartbeat!

I still maintain you do both.

If you don't, you end up like the Rams. Hero one year, zero the next. That was obviously a sell-out year for the Rams. Things haven't always been perfect around here, but at least we're competitive over several years. Rams fans can't say that. They got one year, then their roster blown up. Is what happens.

To add to that, it's obvious you play for now. Of course, of course. But the key is building a strong team where all you need to do is plug in a few pieces, each year. Championships are won in the offseason for a reason. You assemble a team that's good now, can be great in the future. Cowboys are doing it right with the cards they have played and cards they've been dealt. Each team is different, and you have to think about the future. That way, you can compete with the teams that do sell out their future.

 

[Bobhaze]

I still maintain you do both.

If you don't, you end up like the Rams. Hero one year, zero the next. That was obviously a sell-out year for the Rams. Things haven't always been perfect around here, but at least we're competitive over several years. Rams fans can't say that. They got one year, then their roster blown up. Is what happens.

To add to that, it's obvious you play for now. Of course, of course. But the key is building a strong team where all you need to do is plug in a few pieces, each year. Championships are won in the offseason for a reason. You assemble a team that's good now, can be great in the future. Cowboys are doing it right with the cards they have played and cards they've been dealt. Each team is different, and you have to think about the future. That way, you can compete with the teams that do sell out their future.

Wait…you wouldn’t do what the rams did? I would. I would take a Lombardi followed by a losing season or two any day and twice on Sundays.

We all hope the Cowboys are doing it the right way. But they aren’t until they do. The last 28 seasons say they don’t know how to build a championship team. Until they do.

I am hopeful this year we have what it takes. I think this year’s team is really good. Why wouldn’t we go for it? Even at the cost of a year down the road? I would rather win a Lombardi one year and be 5-12 the next than be 10-7 every single year and have no hardware to show for it.

 

[T-RO]

The only reason they’ve kept KJ is they are hoping he develops. Isn't that a developmental project? If you draft a guy in the 2nd round and he’s not starting after 3 years, why are you keeping him around?

You are worked up over our 5th or 6th CB? Seriously?

If Kelvin even makes the team--something you oddly presume --dude is the last CB off the bench. Meanwhile team has scored big in drafting Diggs, Bland. Eric Scott Jr looks promising. Dallas has perhaps the #1 cornerback group in the league and you are whining? I'm (almost) out of words.

I don't like distracted players and won't complain if Joseph is gone. He might be! But I'm happy to defer that to FO and Quinn. Defensive roster is nails.

 

[T-RO]

Wait…you wouldn’t do what the rams did? I would. I would take a Lombardi followed by a losing season or two any day and twice on Sundays.

Pass2Run is right on this. Rams path was ridiculous. And no, the penalty isn't a losing season or two. That price tag is abject irrelevancy for up to 4 full seasons.