Sources: Cleveland has agreement to acquire Kevin Love, including contract commitment

[Manwiththeplan]

Translation: "I haven't read a word of this thread."

Translation: "I can't really disagree, so I'll say something that doesn't respond to his question, hoping that no one notices."

 

[Manwiththeplan]

FWIW, Burm hasn't posted at all in the Spurs 2014-2015 thread, so to me, several Spurs fans are far more obsessed with everything Lebron James, then he is with anything Spurs related

 

[jterrell]

I read and re-read my post, and I just can't seem to find anywhere I even mentioned the Spurs name. I'm not saying the Cavs won't be good, but I don't think that this is their year. First, as you stated, they're all really young - so probably a year away from being a real threat. It has nothing to do with San Antonio, and I'm not even talking about them.

Second, they are going to have some terrible defense. Kyrie Irving is atrocious. Flat-out atrocious. Almost intentionally bad. For NBA point guards, his RPM (Real +/-) is -3.38. Ranked 72nd out of 82 players. The only starter worse than him is Brandon Jennings. James Harden thinks Kyrie Irving plays bad defense.

Kevin Love is 22nd among PFs. Higher than Irving, but surrounded by such talents as Jason Thompson, Kyle O'Quinn and Elton Brand. (2014 Elton Brand, by the way). And he's been noted as a terrible defender. Yes, a good rebounder and an amazing passer, but a terrible defender.

Varejao, Thompson and Waiters are fine players and will be fine. Waiters is white-hot when he's on, but takes half the season to get into gear. If health isn't an issue for all teams, I think the Bulls are better in the East. In the West, I think the Cavs could lose to OKC, LAC, Dallas, SA and maybe Portland.

And how are they going to have a ton more assets? After this season, they're going to have Lebron making >20M a year, Kyrie has a 90M extension starting after this year, and Love is going to be on a 120M contract. Do the math and see how much money they'll have after this season. It's going to be the same problem Miami had, but with less players taking paycuts. Personally, I think they're too young this year, and next year they're going to have so much money tied up in three guys, they're going to fill out the rest with min contracts or vets chasing a ring.

So, back to exactly what I said in the first post - the Cavs are going to give up a ton of points on defense, because two of their 'big three' are very poor defenders. One of them is one of the absolute worst in the league. And you can't hide him against the Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Parker, Lillard's of the world. Lebron can't guard everyone.

And spare me the vegas lines. Those are based on bets, and the Cavs became the odds favorites the minute Lebron signed.

You simply do not understand basketball is the nicest thing I can say about this post.
And you do not understand Vegas lines if you ignore them.
They've got a long history of accuracy. Billions of dollars rely upon their accuracy.

It's OK, you aren't alone. Lots of folks fail to realize defense is a team concept and you can't use plus minus with one team and equate it to playing on another.
The thought CLE will be porous defensively is rather silly. Varajao is a hard working grinder who defends.
Love is actually a good man defender and only struggles on help side defense because he is too valuable to get in foul trouble.
LeBron is an elite wing defender. So is Marion.
Irving will almost certainly be allowed to defend the easiest match up amongst guards/wings all year.

Spurs fans should be the last group needing an education in team defense after seeing Manu and Parker co-exist with a non-shot blocking Duncan yet allow fewer than 95 points for the better part of a decade.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-kevin-love-trade-wins/

As to assets ... that's been widely discussed already. They don't need cap space to trade picks or players.
And the NBA salary cap will be going way up in 2 years anyways.

You've seen plenty of proposed trades that CLE can employ to get better. From DAL they can easily get B. Wright and R. Felton for Thompson and salary filler.
Every team has deals they can make with CLE because they have assets galore in young players and more than the normal allotment of draft picks.
CLE also has the benefit of trading for expiring guys because those players are likely to re-up to play with LeBron.

 

[MC KAos]

Damn some of your just have a stick stuck up your butts about the spurs, ranting against them before people even brought them up just because they are spurs fans, specially jterrell. Get over it.

 

[burmafrd]

Damn some of your just have a stick stuck up your butts about the spurs, ranting against them before people even brought them up just because they are spurs fans, specially jterrell. Get over it.

get over yourself, homer.

 

[burmafrd]

Translation: "I haven't read a word of this thread."

translation

I refuse to face reality

 

[burmafrd]

the spurs homers have to dribble everywhere. They have no self control.

 

[Rockport]

the spurs homers have to dribble everywhere. They have no self control.

5 Championships is something to be proud of. You need to get over yourself and go troll where the 15 year olds live. Your actions here show that's where you belong.

 

[zrinkill]

the spurs homers have to dribble everywhere. They have no self control.

Poor little boy is still crying ....... two months later.

 

[bounce]

You simply do not understand basketball is the nicest thing I can say about this post.
And you do not understand Vegas lines if you ignore them.
They've got a long history of accuracy. Billions of dollars rely upon their accuracy.

The Spurs are not even a lock as a top 4 team in the West to me. Too much depth in the West and too many injury concerns for the Spurs who start off one rotation player lighter than last year.

Vegas has the Cavs as the favorites to win the title.

Cleveland Cavaliers 16/5
San Antonio Spurs 4/1
Oklahoma City Thunder 6/1
Chicago Bulls 10/1
Los Angeles Clippers 12/1
Houston Rockets 22/1

Got it.

Make sure to find a focal point every time you spin around. Don't want you to get dizzy.

I do wish I understood the game as well as you, though. I'll bet these outlets do, also.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-love-the-cavaliers-will-struggle-on-defense/

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...ve-trade-means-for-the-cavaliers-on-the-floor

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...lls-lebron-james-andrew-wiggins-klay-thompson

Look man, obviously you know basketball. But here's the weird thing - there are a lot of other people who do, as well. My opinion is that while being potent on offense, they could struggle on defense - but they're still a top 2 team in the East. And a lot of people share that opinion . Stop being so damn condescending with every response. I can have an intelligent discussion with you, but don't act like everything you say is basketball gospel, and everyone else is an idiot for even suggesting an opposing opinion.

Translation: "I can't really disagree, so I'll say something that doesn't respond to his question, hoping that no one notices."

What question did I not answer? I said that no Spurs fans have really brought up the Spurs. Everything I said beforehand related to the Cavs and how I thought the trade made them. And it was assigned that what I, and others, said had ANYTHING to do with the Spurs. When in fact nobody had even mentioned the Spurs.

 

[zrinkill]

How is it Burm is the troll, when Spurs fans once again hijack a thread not about the Spurs, in order to talk about how great they are?

Bullcrap

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Now we have three spurs threads..
one on the spurs
one in the free agency thread
one in the kevin love trade thread....

 

[burmafrd]

5 Championships is something to be proud of. You need to get over yourself and go troll where the 15 year olds live. Your actions here show that's where you belong.

as I said and as you just illustrated: no self control

 

[BAZ]

If find it strange when people jump on these things and claim teams to be the best when a game hasn't been played. Happened when the Lakers got Howard. You go three stars that may not be good team mates to each other, a coach new to the NBA and a roster that was disfunctional last year. I'd hold off placing that bet.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I read and re-read my post, and I just can't seem to find anywhere I even mentioned the Spurs name. I'm not saying the Cavs won't be good, but I don't think that this is their year. First, as you stated, they're all really young - so probably a year away from being a real threat. It has nothing to do with San Antonio, and I'm not even talking about them.

Second, they are going to have some terrible defense. Kyrie Irving is atrocious. Flat-out atrocious. Almost intentionally bad. For NBA point guards, his RPM (Real +/-) is -3.38. Ranked 72nd out of 82 players. The only starter worse than him is Brandon Jennings. James Harden thinks Kyrie Irving plays bad defense.

Kevin Love is 22nd among PFs. Higher than Irving, but surrounded by such talents as Jason Thompson, Kyle O'Quinn and Elton Brand. (2014 Elton Brand, by the way). And he's been noted as a terrible defender. Yes, a good rebounder and an amazing passer, but a terrible defender.

Varejao, Thompson and Waiters are fine players and will be fine. Waiters is white-hot when he's on, but takes half the season to get into gear. If health isn't an issue for all teams, I think the Bulls are better in the East. In the West, I think the Cavs could lose to OKC, LAC, Dallas, SA and maybe Portland.

And how are they going to have a ton more assets? After this season, they're going to have Lebron making >20M a year, Kyrie has a 90M extension starting after this year, and Love is going to be on a 120M contract. Do the math and see how much money they'll have after this season. It's going to be the same problem Miami had, but with less players taking paycuts. Personally, I think they're too young this year, and next year they're going to have so much money tied up in three guys, they're going to fill out the rest with min contracts or vets chasing a ring.

So, back to exactly what I said in the first post - the Cavs are going to give up a ton of points on defense, because two of their 'big three' are very poor defenders. One of them is one of the absolute worst in the league. And you can't hide him against the Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Parker, Lillard's of the world. Lebron can't guard everyone.

And spare me the vegas lines. Those are based on bets, and the Cavs became the odds favorites the minute Lebron signed.

I completely agree. Jterrell said I must have a low basketball IQ for thinking the Cavs would have a bad defense, and his only supporting evidence they'd have a good defense in LeBron is a great perimeter defender. They also don't have Shawn Marion yet, but getting him would definitely help. And, as you said, Kyrie was awful at letting guys blow right past him to the hole. But you can get away with that if you have good rim defenders. Unfortunately, Love is one of the worst rim defenders, and Varajeo and Tristan Thompson were below average last year. I could see Kyrie being motivated to step up his perimeter defense if the players around him (LeBron and possibly Marion) are playing great. But they still have no rim defenders whatsoever on the roster, and Varajeo is the only guy over 6'9" (I'm not including Haywood because I don't see him playing).

 

[JoeyBoy718]

You simply do not understand basketball is the nicest thing I can say about this post.
And you do not understand Vegas lines if you ignore them.
They've got a long history of accuracy. Billions of dollars rely upon their accuracy.

It's OK, you aren't alone. Lots of folks fail to realize defense is a team concept and you can't use plus minus with one team and equate it to playing on another.
The thought CLE will be porous defensively is rather silly. Varajao is a hard working grinder who defends.
Love is actually a good man defender and only struggles on help side defense because he is too valuable to get in foul trouble.
LeBron is an elite wing defender. So is Marion.
Irving will almost certainly be allowed to defend the easiest match up amongst guards/wings all year.

Spurs fans should be the last group needing an education in team defense after seeing Manu and Parker co-exist with a non-shot blocking Duncan yet allow fewer than 95 points for the better part of a decade.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-kevin-love-trade-wins/

As to assets ... that's been widely discussed already. They don't need cap space to trade picks or players.
And the NBA salary cap will be going way up in 2 years anyways.

You've seen plenty of proposed trades that CLE can employ to get better. From DAL they can easily get B. Wright and R. Felton for Thompson and salary filler.
Every team has deals they can make with CLE because they have assets galore in young players and more than the normal allotment of draft picks.
CLE also has the benefit of trading for expiring guys because those players are likely to re-up to play with LeBron.

I don't like the Spurs at all. In fact, they annoy me. But did you just call Tim Duncan "non-shot blocking" and then go on to question everyone else's basketball IQ?

He averaged 2.5-3 blocks for his whole career until a few years ago and still averages slightly less than 2 (1.9 last year, which was 5th in the league).

And, as I said earlier, the Cavs have no one who averages more than 0.5 and only one guy taller than 6'9".

 

[visionary]

Logically breaking down the Cavs and the 2014/15 season.

First let me state I think my track record is pretty strong in this forum for accurate BBall takes.
I am by no means infallible but I am well above the bell curve.
I had the Rox/Lakers as very overrated last year for instance and Dallas as underrated.
My projected champ was the Thunder who had a partial season from Westbrook then playoff loss of Ibaka
So an excusable miss there I think and probably a better overall choice than the 2 time defending Heat which was by far the popular pick.

I expect CLE starts off the season very well the first 20-25 games.
The fan excitement will make games feel like playoff contests to those Cavs who've not been aboard the LeBron train previously.
CLE will have an Xs and Os advantage as the Coach goes in with his system and teams take time to figure it out.
After that early hot stretch I think other teams will find which sets and defensive rotations work best.
I expect you see the Cavs hit a bit of a lull around the trade deadline time and make a move or two to correct issues they find.
The team will take another 20-25 games to tinker with things but should maintain high playoff seeding if not very top of the East.
I expect you see a lot of guys try to cement roles in a 9 man rotation. They may try 12-14 guys throughout the regular season but will settle in that last month plus on a playoff rotation.
I expect once in the playoffs the East provides a little tougher challenge than last year but still not a great threat barring it all going right for Chicago.
Whomever wins the West will be a very real test but that team may well be quite tired.
The Clippers won't have the Sterling thing pop up wrecking a historic season.
The Thunder are unlikely to lose their only decent big.
It should be a war every night in the West both regular season and playoffs.
Because of this odds on favorite to win it all has to be CLE.

Where CLE struggles: I think the biggest issue for them will be offensive efficiency in half court. Irving, Waiters, LeBron, Love all score plenty. But scoring on minimal shots and scoring in the last 4 minutes of games is a different thing. I expect some close losses as Kyrie grows up and Love finds his sweet spot. How the guards balance not getting LeBron mad enough to behead them via trade with being aggressive is anyone's guess. The Miami guards other than Wade were mostly scared to death to shoot the ball. The Cavs have to learn to pass up good shots for great shots while also always remaining an offensive threat. --this is Pop basketball.

Where CLE excels: Miami was 5th last year in points allowed at 95.5. This CLE team will be as good on defense. They are younger, more athletic and in general better defenders. It will be very hard to out-rebound CLE. With James, Love and Varajao or Thompson closing out games teams will have a hard time getting more than one shot per possession. They can go small with Marion, James and Love versus teams that go small and basically cause nightmares for those teams. James and Marion can both guard 3 or 4 different positions per team and do so in shut down fashion for at least stretches.

Great post and I largely agree
To me the wild card will be Blatt, the guy has never coached in the NBA so it will be a learning curve for him
The other X factor is that Kyrie has to grow up and defend, we assume he will do it but we don't know he can. If he can't, that is a huge problem

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Now we have three spurs threads..
one on the spurs
one in the free agency thread
one in the kevin love trade thread....

Exactly, if you want to understand why some of us are annoyed, this is why. Every NBA thread, turns into a Spurs thread and how they are an under dog, yet the greatest team in NBA.........no sports history

 

[Manwiththeplan]

What question did I not answer? I said that no Spurs fans have really brought up the Spurs. Everything I said beforehand related to the Cavs and how I thought the trade made them. And it was assigned that what I, and others, said had ANYTHING to do with the Spurs. When in fact nobody had even mentioned the Spurs.

Yea, ok. No one has mentioned the Spurs in this thread and everyone is crazy to assume the Spurs homers, or homer in this case, wasn't knocking Cleveland and wasn't including the Spurs in the 4 or 5 teams out West that Cleveland still couldn't beat. My bad

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Bullcrap

What other team besides Cleveland has been mentioned in a thread about Cleveland acquiring Kevin Love? I don't even think Minnesota has been mentioned