Specter: Patriots Cheated in '04 Against Steelers

LittleBoyBlue

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First... the Pats were gonna get a pass = no *

Then... the possibility of Pats was debated = yes *

Now... the Pats have managed to work themselves into getting a = tainted *
 

03EBZ06

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I'm not into government intervention of private sector issues but this is great and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Mad props to Sen. Specter for being a bulldog over this cheating issue and making Goodell squirm over his inadequacy of the investigation and being high and mighty of his self-importance.
 

DCfaninDC

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khiladi;1955579 said:
Per Goodell, they went on the word of Bellichek. Now, as per the words of Spectre, Goodell is reportedly saying that the taping went back to the year 2000, when he was originally arguing that the tapes that proved they were cheating only went as far back as 2006.

The fact is, Goodell has been exposed as a fraud. His hypocrisy in laying down punsihments was bound to back-fire.
Ok maybe I wasn't clear on how to ask the question. What I meant was, what if they haven't really given the NFL all the tapes they had. I mean how can the NFL make sure that the Pats don't have back-up copies they can use later?

Also, if you caught a person cheating and think he is not honest to the game, how can they beleive anything he says from that point on?

To be honest, I really disliked Belicheck, but always thought he was one of the great ones and very smart. Now, hmmm...he is looking more like a Jim Haslett as far as I am concerned.
 

peplaw06

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DCfaninDC;1955630 said:
Ok maybe I wasn't clear on how to ask the question. What I meant was, what if they haven't really given the NFL all the tapes they had. I mean how can the NFL make sure that the Pats don't have back-up copies they can use later?

Also, if you caught a person cheating and think he is not honest to the game, how can they beleive anything he says from that point on?

To be honest, I really disliked Belicheck, but always thought he was one of the great ones and very smart. Now, hmmm...he is looking more like a Jim Haslett as far as I am concerned.

Wha?? You don't trust a cheater to turn over all evidence of his cheating? I am shocked!!:eek:


;)


Actually the only thing I think Belichick has going for him is IIRC this wasn't illegal until 2006.

I can't remember if Goodell told him to turn over all tapes in their possession or all evidence of cheating. I've gotten so twisted up in debating this, sometimes I forget where my points begin and the facts end.

But in the big scheme of things, it matters little. It wasn't illegal to shoot HGH into your butt when Clemens was alleged to have done it. But we all know how that's going for ole Rog.
 

03EBZ06

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DCfaninDC;1955630 said:
Ok maybe I wasn't clear on how to ask the question. What I meant was, what if they haven't really given the NFL all the tapes they had. I mean how can the NFL make sure that the Pats don't have back-up copies they can use later?
That's just it, Goodell took belicheat and patsies word for it and said it's good enough.

Goodell knew the patsies were cheating since 2000, that's 112 regular season games and many playoff games and he actually believed that there were only 6 friggin tapes, even if they were reused? Come on now, that is ridiculous.

Also, I really can't see wealthy corporations like NFL franchise like patsies reusing tapes to save few bucks.

umm, ok.
 

peplaw06

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03EBZ06;1955657 said:
That's just it, Goodell took belicheat and patsies word for it and said it's good enough.

Goodell knew the patsies were cheating since 2000, that's 112 regular season games and many playoff games and he actually believed that there were only 6 friggin tapes, even if they were reused? Come on now, that is ridiculous.

Also, I really can't see wealthy corporations like NFL franchise like patsies reusing tapes to save few bucks.

umm, ok.
No joke.... these teams have a library with thousands of tapes/DVDs in them. I mean, I'm sure each scouting department has video of all the prospects in this year's draft. Then every team one team plays in a season, they likely have every pre-season, and regular season game tape up to the last week's game. And they're out there filming their own practices, etc.

This was never a believable explanation.
 

DCfaninDC

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03EBZ06;1955657 said:
That's just it, Goodell took belicheat and patsies word for it and said it's good enough.

Goodell knew the patsies were cheating since 2000, that's 112 regular season games and many playoff games and he actually believed that there were only 6 friggin tapes, even if they were reused? Come on now, that is ridiculous.

Also, I really can't see wealthy corporations like NFL franchise like patsies reusing tapes to save few bucks.

umm, ok.
Oh well why didn't say that? Now it all makes sense. Mr Goodell whose sole interest is to make money for the NFL owners is going to be honest to the game and fans. Yeah, he is going to expose everything even if that means the NFL will end up looking like baseball.:rolleyes:

Screw that and all of them, I am not going to watch any football anymore.
 

Dodger12

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03EBZ06;1955619 said:
I'm not into government intervention of private sector issues but this is great and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Mad props to Sen. Specter for being a bulldog over this cheating issue and making Goodell squirm over his inadequacy of the investigation and being high and mighty of his self-importance.

Sen. Specter is no hero. He's a Pittsburgh fan who's using his official position and authority to bully the Patriots and the NFL. Hardly what I want my Senator doing.

I don't think anyone can question Bellichick's defensive genius. As a HC, he lucked into the greatest QB's of his generation in Brady. Stealing signals has been going on in every sport and it just sounds like sour grapes to me. If peopel want to preserve the integrity of the game(s), then steroids is a far larger issue.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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03EBZ06;1955619 said:
I'm not into government intervention of private sector issues but this is great and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Mad props to Sen. Specter for being a bulldog over this cheating issue and making Goodell squirm over his inadequacy of the investigation and being high and mighty of his self-importance.



Baseball wouldnt clean itself up. So it got the ball rolling.

Goodell was giving the Pats a pass and it wasnt right. Again got the ball rolling


For the greater good - I am all for it.
For the individual agenda stuff - I am not.
 

DCfaninDC

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Dodger12;1955693 said:
Sen. Specter is no hero. He's a Pittsburgh fan who's using his official position and authority to bully the Patriots and the NFL. Hardly what I want my Senator doing.

I don't think anyone can question Bellichick's defensive genius. As a HC, he lucked into the greatest QB's of his generation in Brady. Stealing signals has been going on in every sport and it just sounds like sour grapes to me. If peopel want to preserve the integrity of the game(s), then steroids is a far larger issue.
First of all that is just your own opinion and not many people care about steroids as you might think. Alot of people are still going to the games.

I don't think steroids is as bad as stealing the signals. Here is why. You can take steroids all you want and get big all that, but if you are not good to begin with and do not have the coordination and quick reaction, then you won't hit the ball anyways. Does it give you an advantage, sure.

Also, baseball and steroids is different than stealing signals in the NFL. Baseball is very different in that you only have one player batting at a time. If the bases are empty, the steroid guy can only have one RBI and will have to wait for his turn again in the line-up. Signal stealing has an effect on the whole team.
 

TheCount

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Belichick has been taping since 2000, Goodell tells Specter
By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
February 13, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.

"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.

Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.

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"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."

Goodell said Belichick told him he believed the taping was legal; Goodell said he did not concur.

"He said that's always been his interpretation since he's been the head coach," the commissioner said. "We are going to agree to disagree on the facts."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, wants to talk to other league officials about what exactly was taped and which games may have been compromised.

"We have a right to have honest football games," he said.

Goodell noted that "we were the ones that disclosed" the Patriots' illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in Week 1 of last season. Further, Goodell said, they had an admission by Belichick.

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Goodell also told Specter that that he doesn't regret destroying the Spygate tapes or the notes.

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.

"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.

He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

"What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence," Specter said. As for keeping the tapes out of the hands of others: "All you have to do is lock up the tapes."

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 because of the Spygate incident. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.

Specter has questioned the quality of the NFL's investigation into the matter and raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers. Specter also raised the threat of Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Goodell also said he has not heard from Matt Walsh, the former Patriots employee who performed some videotaping duties for the team.

Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.

Goodell said he has offered Walsh a deal whereby "he has to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly" in return for indemnity. Specter said he, too, wanted to talk to Walsh and perhaps offer a different deal.

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

------------------

No wonder they burned all the tape, imagine the fallout!


Article
 

03EBZ06

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Dodger12;1955693 said:
Sen. Specter is no hero. He's a Pittsburgh fan who's using his official position and authority to bully the Patriots and the NFL. Hardly what I want my Senator doing.

I don't think anyone can question Bellichick's defensive genius. As a HC, he lucked into the greatest QB's of his generation in Brady. Stealing signals has been going on in every sport and it just sounds like sour grapes to me. If peopel want to preserve the integrity of the game(s), then steroids is a far larger issue.
No one said Sen. Specter was a hero. I'm giving him a props for pushing commish to do what he should have done rather than going through the motion and getting rid of evidence which created more questions and then not answering the questions.

Here is an enlightenment for you, the elected official isn't only serving you, they don't only do things that you feel important.

Sour grapes? Ummm, ok, I guess to you, cheating is acceptable action, nice.
 

Iago33

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superpunk;1955791 said:
Wait guyz...I've just been dowloaded some new breaking informations.

Observe these findings.

The man is a genius.

My Mom's been putting peanut butter on both slices of bread for years, and that old Cheater is trying to say he came up with it! He must have been using video.
 

Dodger12

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DCfaninDC;1955722 said:
First of all that is just your own opinion and not many people care about steroids as you might think. Alot of people are still going to the games.

By your logic, then not many people care about the Patriots issue as well since allot of people are still going to the game and didn't the SB break all viewing ratings?

DCfaninDC;1955722 said:
I don't think steroids is as bad as stealing the signals. Here is why. You can take steroids all you want and get big all that, but if you are not good to begin with and do not have the coordination and quick reaction, then you won't hit the ball anyways. Does it give you an advantage, sure.

Steroids enhances your performance which has a direct impact on the game. You can't have a guy hit 10 HR's one season and hit 40 the next on juice and not affect the outcome of games. People heal faster which gets them out on the field after an injury. That impacts the game's outcome, especially if it's your ace pitcher (Clemens) or your clean up hitter (Bonds).

DCfaninDC;1955722 said:
Also, baseball and steroids is different than stealing signals in the NFL. Baseball is very different in that you only have one player batting at a time. If the bases are empty, the steroid guy can only have one RBI and will have to wait for his turn again in the line-up. Signal stealing has an effect on the whole team.

Even if you steal signals and you know what's coming, if a player doesn't have the "coordination and quick reaction" to make the play, that won't happen in football either. That works both ways. If you've got a guy on first and you steal the 3rd base coaches signals, then you know what's coming (bunt, steal, hit and run, suicide, etc.). That's been going on since the dawn of time.

And if you feel the impact is lessened because people only bat one at a time, then what if your pitcher, who touches the ball on each and every play, is on the juice? Coaches in all sports get paid good money to look at film and scout a teams strenghts and weaknesses. On many occassions, these guys already know what's coming by the formation of the offense. But if an athlete is faster and stronger than his opponent because of a drug, then that's an uneven playing field any way you slice it.

Also, in the NFL, you almost have constant player movement. Guys get cut, traded or released and are picked up by a rival team for information on that opponent. I don't think asking that (released) player about his former team's tendencies and signals is off limits.
 

Dodger12

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03EBZ06;1955783 said:
No one said Sen. Specter was a hero. I'm giving him a props for pushing commish to do what he should have done rather than going through the motion and getting rid of evidence which created more questions and then not answering the questions.

Here is an enlightenment for you, the elected official isn't only serving you, they don't only do things that you feel important.

Sour grapes? Ummm, ok, I guess to you, cheating is acceptable action, nice.

My only point is that Sen. Specter is pushing the issue as a Pittsburgh fan, not to defend the integrity of the game. Maybe sour grapes on his end, not mine, as I couldn't give two hoots about the Pats.

And, of course, cheating of any kind is not acceptable. But in a time of war, a sinking economy and threats of terrorism, there's got to be something better for a Senator to do then address this issue as a Steeler's fan. Just my opinion and no slight against yours.
 

Rampage

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Dodger12;1955848 said:
My only point is that Sen. Specter is pushing the issue as a Pittsburgh fan, not to defend the integrity of the game. Maybe sour grapes on his end, not mine, as I couldn't give two hoots about the Pats.

And, of course, cheating of any kind is not acceptable. But in a time of war, a sinking economy and threats of terrorism, there's got to be something better for a Senator to do then address this issue as a Steeler's fan. Just my opinion and no slight against yours.

#1 he's an eagle fan
#2 how do you know why he's doing this?
 

khiladi

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Everybody has their own motivations... If it so happens that Spectre's motivations lead to the truth, too bad for the Patriots...
 

DCfaninDC

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Dodger12;1955825 said:
By your logic, then not many people care about the Patriots issue as well since allot of people are still going to the game and didn't the SB break all viewing ratings?
I would like to beleive that most of those people were waiting and wanting the Pats to lose. I am not sure if was as obvoius to you as it was to me, but most people at the SB wre rooting for the Giants. I worked with a lot of Commanders fans and some Cowboys fans, and all wanted the Pats to lose, they didn't care about the Giants winning.

Steroids enhances your performance which has a direct impact on the game. You can't have a guy hit 10 HR's one season and hit 40 the next on juice and not affect the outcome of games. People heal faster which gets them out on the field after an injury. That impacts the game's outcome, especially if it's your ace pitcher (Clemens) or your clean up hitter (Bonds).
I am all up for it when it is used for healing. Let's have the best players palying. What is wrong with that? Maybe you are right, HR numbers went down after MLB got serious about 'roids. Maybe steroids many of the HR became doubles, triples, or even fly outs. But I am not exactly sure that one play can change a whole series of games. In the NFL you get one game, one shot.

Even if you steal signals and you know what's coming, if a player doesn't have the "coordination and quick reaction" to make the play, that won't happen in football either. That works both ways. If you've got a guy on first and you steal the 3rd base coaches signals, then you know what's coming (bunt, steal, hit and run, suicide, etc.). That's been going on since the dawn of time.
Again, football is much different than baseball. If coaches know that a blitz is coming, the can adjust quickly and call an audible. And if they know it is going to be a run, the can stuff the box and have a much better chance of stopping the player. I remember the game when the Pats got their a$$es whipped the Fins stole their signal. All of a sudden, the god-like Brady became mere mortal and was sacked hard many times. Signal stealing in the NFL is like signal stealing in baseball, if you know what is coming it becomes alot eassier to lay off balls and go after the one right down the middle.


And if you feel the impact is lessened because people only bat one at a time, then what if your pitcher, who touches the ball on each and every play, is on the juice? Coaches in all sports get paid good money to look at film and scout a teams strenghts and weaknesses. On many occassions, these guys already know what's coming by the formation of the offense. But if an athlete is faster and stronger than his opponent because of a drug, then that's an uneven playing field any way you slice it.
I agree with you on this one. Pitchers on the juice is much worse than a hitter.
Also, in the NFL, you almost have constant player movement. Guys get cut, traded or released and are picked up by a rival team for information on that opponent. I don't think asking that (released) player about his former team's tendencies and signals is off limits.
I don't think the realeased palyers are a big deal, they don't know much of palybook. A lot of players don't know much about the play being called other than their role.
 

Jay

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Dodger12;1955693 said:
Sen. Specter is no hero. He's a Pittsburgh fan who's using his official position and authority to bully the Patriots and the NFL. Hardly what I want my Senator doing.

I don't think anyone can question Bellichick's defensive genius. As a HC, he lucked into the greatest QB's of his generation in Brady. Stealing signals has been going on in every sport and it just sounds like sour grapes to me. If peopel want to preserve the integrity of the game(s), then steroids is a far larger issue.

If all this is, is sour grapes, then why destroy the tapes? Really think about it, ask yourself that and think about it. If you can't seem to grasp it, maybe try to go back and reread this thread.

I agree with what another poster said about this whole situation.. it stinks.
 
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