Stafford didn't get in

[Kevinicus]

The one clear view from the goal line that there is before he gets covered up, Stafford was turned sideways, and the ball was essentially where the line judge was marking it.

(Until he wasn't marking it there any more.)

The line judge never marked it anywhere. Running in from the sideline is not an indication of where the ball is marked.

 

[Kevinicus]

Exactly! Nobody signaled TD, and then all of the sudden they changed their minds. Last week Mike Pereira was talking about "undercover officiating". He said he suspected somebody who was watching replays was communicating with the officials on the field, and telling them when they had the spot of the ball wrong. I understand them wanting to get the calls on the field right, but if they're going to do that they need to change the rules, because right now that isn't how things are supposed to work. Detroit should have been forced to use a challenge on that play.

Nobody ever signaled him short either, so how would you know they changed their minds?

 

[AbeBeta]

What pissed me (and Garrett) off is that they originally called him down short. Right or wrong, that was their call.

The Lions surely would've challenged and there probably wasn't quite enough evidence to overturn the call.

Then an hour later, the refs changed their minds on the original call, thus flipping it so there would need to be undisputable evidence that he DIDN'T get in to overturn it.

That's garbage. You can't change your mind on the original call an hour after the fact, even if you wished you had a do-over.

You prefer they go with the call made by one ref instead of conferring?

A truly odd stance.

 

[Virginia-Dave]

You prefer they go with the call made by one ref instead of conferring?

A truly odd stance.

If one of the refs saw the ball cross the goal line, then why would he need to confer before signaling touchdown? If neither of them saw the ball cross the line, and neither of them signaled TD, then why did they decide to call it a TD after their conference? You either saw the ball break the plane, or you didn't. I'm not saying it wasn't a TD, because it was. I'm saying someone radioed down to them and told them it was a TD after neither of the refs that were on the goal line called it a TD. That is not allowed by NFL rule, but apparently it's been happening.

 

[_sturt_]

Nobody ever signaled him short either, so how would you know they changed their minds?

I think we've exhausted this issue, at least from where I sit, but VaDave is hard to argue with...

you either saw the ball break the plane, or you didn't.

The line judge comes running in, with his right foot parallel to the goal line at about 3 inches from paydirt... that, as opposed to running-in in a way to suggest maybe that he just wanted to separate the players, and hadn't thought to raise his arms and call it a TD just yet.

And guys, I've watched this now several times... the last we see the ball from the sideline camera, 58 is pulling on Stafford's arm, keeping the ball from crossing the plane. If Stafford had had the ball in his right arm, it would have been a TD, but because it was in his left, and Crawford was pulling as he was, we never see it get there. (If it did get there, it would have had to have been sometime after Ryan Davis and Maliek Collins were standing in the way of the view.)

Then the first whistle sounds. And in fact at the exact moment that the whistles blow, Crawford's been able to pull him back a half-step from where he was before. WE ONLY CLEARLY SEE HIM CROSS THE GOAL LINE after about THREE FULL SECONDS of the refs blowing their whistles. Crawford lets go, and the pile moves forward, with Crawford raising his hand and seeming to celebrate his achievement.

I'll even allow that he might have been in... but if he was, there was no way to know it. Moreover, back to VaDave... if you see it go in, then you call it, and if you don't, you don't.

The most appropriate call would have been no TD, and then on review, for it to be "the call on the field stands" (not confirmed).

 

[Kevinicus]

I think we've exhausted this issue, at least from where I sit, but VaDave is hard to argue with...


The line judge comes running in, with his right foot parallel to the goal line at about 3 inches from paydirt... that, as opposed to running-in in a way to suggest maybe that he just wanted to separate the players, and hadn't thought to raise his arms and call it a TD just yet.

And guys, I've watched this now several times... the last we see the ball from the sideline camera, 58 is pulling on Stafford's arm, keeping the ball from crossing the plane. If Stafford had had the ball in his right arm, it would have been a TD, but because it was in his left, and Crawford was pulling as he was, we never see it get there. (If it did get there, it would have had to have been sometime after Ryan Davis and Maliek Collins were standing in the way of the view.)

Then the first whistle sounds. And in fact at the exact moment that the whistles blow, Crawford's been able to pull him back a half-step from where he was before. WE ONLY CLEARLY SEE HIM CROSS THE GOAL LINE after about THREE FULL SECONDS of the refs blowing their whistles. Crawford lets go, and the pile moves forward, with Crawford raising his hand and seeming to celebrate his achievement.

I'll even allow that he might have been in... but if he was, there was no way to know it. Moreover, back to VaDave... if you see it go in, then you call it, and if you don't, you don't.

The most appropriate call would have been no TD, and then on review, for it to be "the call on the field stands" (not confirmed).

You ever consider they ran in to get a better look and discussed with the other officials to see what they saw and when they saw it? That's why no signal either way was made?

 

[_sturt_]

The left line judge appears to run to the pile later than the other three. It makes sense that he probably wanted to remain static for as long as he could so as to not jostle his perspective and keep his eye straight down the line. When he runs in and just barely enters the view of the TV screen, whistles start blowing. As he gets right up to the pile, he seems to be intentional and deliberate in how he sets down his right foot at that 3-inch-or-so mark, but he's quickly moved off that mark by the pile moving. It's at that moment Crawford raises his hand in celebration.

Conferring is all good and fine, but it still comes down to what any single referee saw... or in this case didn't see.

The only other ref with a view parallel to the goal line ran in from the right, and you know what he did? While it's difficult to imagine he wasn't completely screened off from seeing the ball, since he'd have to have x-ray vision seeing thru Stafford's body given how his was contorted counterclockwise with the ball in his left arm, not to mention there were two players he had to wedge through to get to the pile... what he did I hadn't even noticed until now.... this other ref took up a spot short of the goal line and stood in place with raised arms waving them back and forth as-if marking the ball right there.

The other two refs had no perspective, as they were looking from perpendicular angles from the 2-3 yard line and, at that, players in front of them.

 

[erod]

He clearly scored. Not even debatable.

 

[drawandstrike]

I don't even know why we're grousing about it, rehashing it in a game where we kicked their butt 42-21.

 

[_sturt_]

Some people will believe what they want to believe.

Others study the replay, and attempt objective assessment.

That's all I've got for ya.

 

[Nightman]

He clearly scored. Not even debatable.

He crossed the end line for sure but they gave him an awful long time to keep pushing

The judge from the top or the right couldn't possibly see the ball cross, so he didn't make a call initially

There was a delay because of the extra pushing but he did get it in

 

[_sturt_]

Grousing about it b/c our coach was grousing about it at the time... I'm sure he, like myself, is concerned that this kind of thing receives appropriate attention from the league office for future reference.

 

[_sturt_]

He crossed the end line for sure but they gave him an awful long time to keep pushing

The judge from the top or the right couldn't possibly see the ball cross, so he didn't make a call initially

There was a delay because of the extra pushing but he did get it in

Yes. He got in.

But I've taken no liberties in how I explained it above... it was 3 full seconds after the whistles began blowing that that happened. Don't take my word for it, tho... watch the replay yourself.

 

[Doomsday]

I thought he got in. I didn't see either line judge call it a TD, but in the end they got it right and that should be all that matters.

 

[_sturt_]

Some people will believe what they want to believe.

Others study the replay, and attempt objective assessment.

That's all I've got for ya.

 

[DenCWBY]

He was in.

What about this?...



Quit crying about the officials.

And here we go.

 

[ThrowuptheXDez88]

This makes up for the Brandon Pettigrew play where he grabbed Hitchens' facemask and all they talked about was Hitchens face guarding which isn't even illegal. Same team too.

Exactly lol, now they are crying for the facemask... We definitely didn't see them talking about Pettigrew grabbing Hitchens facemask 2 years ago.

 

[The Quest for Six]

No big deal as it turned out, but there's a reason the line judge on the left side ran in and did not signal touchdown. Stafford was stopped. The replay that ESPN showed was only what happened after forward motion was stopped. Red was right to be hot.

No, the ball crossed the goal line, the sideline replay clearly showed he did

 

[_sturt_]

The debate is NOT whether the ball crossed the goal line, but WHEN.

I'm not making this stuff up, folks. Go look at the replay and see if it's not PRECISELY as I've described it above... there is no homerism going on here... the ball and Stafford only crosses after Crawford lets go and begins celebrating, three seconds after whistles had begun blowing.

 

[Nav22]

You prefer they go with the call made by one ref instead of conferring?

A truly odd stance.

I don't believe that's what happened.

The 2 officials whose job it is to spot the ball both called him down short. So what made them magically change their minds 20 seconds later?