Starting LB's this year

[Alexander]

Now size isn't an issue?

BIG only applies to linebackers.

Use your decoder ring next time.

 

[silver]

why don't we convert ellis to OLB in the willie macgginest mode. they appear very similar physically.


# 55 Willie McGinest
Position: OLB
Height: 6-5
Weight: 270
Born: 12/11/1971
College: Southern California
NFL Experience: 12

# 98 Greg Ellis
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 280
Born: 08/14/1975
College: North Carolina
NFL Experience: 8

 

[Nors]

BIG only applies to linebackers.

Use your decoder ring next time.

Big applies to 3-4 DE's - see Spears/Canty
Big applies to NT - See Fergi and draft
Big is our new LB crew.


Gone are snap crackle and pop. Dat, Als, Dex

We will continue to upgrade front 7 in 3-4 mannor. And the old 4-3 pieces are displaced.

 

[Nors]

why don't we convert ellis to OLB in the willie macgginest mode. they appear very similar physically.


# 55 Willie McGinest
Position: OLB
Height: 6-5
Weight: 270
Born: 12/11/1971
College: Southern California
NFL Experience: 12

# 98 Greg Ellis
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 280
Born: 08/14/1975
College: North Carolina
NFL Experience: 8


Ellis has asked out - I don't think he can do it either. We have Ware in that role now. BP had thoughts of moving EK there - Can't see Ellis accepting it.

 

[Clove]

I also would like a guy that is stout against the run and good in pass coverage as well as adding some pass rush. There's more to covering someone than pure speed. Ask B.J. Tucker.

Agreed, however, that an OLB upgrade is needed.

The guy has mad agility and instincts, and with that being said, not even Prototype LB'r are guaranteed to be great coverage guys.

Plus, these guys will play mostly zone, and that requires back up 5 yards and nothing more but closing in on a guy.

And for the poster that said he would be one of the first taken, I don't think so. He's too skinny for 4-3 teams, he would not hold up, and that's why he's the perfect 3-4 character. He will be like the 6th taken if not 10th or so. Their is only 8 3-4 teams, and he's too small to play DE in a 4-3 or 3-4. Doesn't make for a good OLB in the 4-3, plus his talents would be wasted.

I say, even if he runs a 4.43 in the combine, because of his usefulness, he will slip to the 3rd. Low risk, high value. I didn't even mention Elvis Dumervill, who could go to ILB and is a sack machine ( 20 sacks last year ).

 

[Rush 2112]

Shudder at the thought of Ellis at SOLB trying to cover Shockey, LJ Smith, etc, etc.

He isn't even quick by DE standards.

Let's not talk about 3-4 OLB.

 

[Clove]

why don't we convert ellis to OLB in the willie macgginest mode. they appear very similar physically.


# 55 Willie McGinest
Position: OLB
Height: 6-5
Weight: 270
Born: 12/11/1971
College: Southern California
NFL Experience: 12

# 98 Greg Ellis
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 280
Born: 08/14/1975
College: North Carolina
NFL Experience: 8


Ellis has asked out - I don't think he can do it either. We have Ware in that role now. BP had thoughts of moving EK there - Can't see Ellis accepting it.

Ellis has absolutely no change of direction skills and little agility. He's also a little too big for this defense and possibly too slow.

The hybrids I was relating too has the agility to stop on a dime and make cuts to stop fast runners/receivers/tight ends. That's why the McGinest types and Wares/Merrimans are special people.

But if you look at the draft now, once these guys were considered no bodies, and were pushed aside because of their size, and now that the 3-4 is becoming more popular, they are the talk of the town. (and BTW, their are tons of D Wares in this draft and few know it)

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Howard could be a Derrick Thomas OLB type - JMO

no he can't, he's not that good on the blitz

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I do like Carpenter, I would put him on the inside.

now why on Earth would you do that? his skills are perfectly suited for the outside in a 3-4, not inside

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think it's important to have people like Lawson who can seriously get after the QB like Ware.

Can you imagine having Ware and Lawson opposite lining up in a standup rushing position in a 3-4 not knowing which guy (if not both) is coming. They could do just like the Steelers, and have Ware or Lawson come to the middle of the line, to add a threat of a blitz thru the middle.

These 2 with addition of a huge DT and RW close to the line of scrimmage would be an absolute mad-house defense. Also, Lawson is faster than Ware and more agile, so you can't stand him up if you're a tight end, he can cover anyone (except receivers deep, but receivers within 10 yards). No running back or TE or FB or QB will outrun this cat.

The best news is, you can get him in the 3rd, since he's only built to play in a 3-4 as an OLB. He's way too small at 6'5 248 to play an every down DE in a 4-3, and would absolutely be wasted as an OLB in a 4-3. Only 8 teams are playing the 3-4 including us, and most are looking at other needs and the others are already set in that position.

one of the few times I can truly say...

I like your thinking!

keep it up

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Size is obviously not an issue. You are not alone listening to all the PC's. We need playmakers.

He took an ILB in Banks and moved him outside. Go figure.

Howard can play in this scheme just fine. Lawson also a thought.

so size all of a sudden isnt' an issue, and Parcells has found a way to make due with smaller LBs? wow, such the turnaround Nors

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Problem is that the Oline is a huge glaring weakness. RT and C are our biggest needs. If the Boys are are able to land both Bentley and Barry in FA, then I wouldn't mind taken Lawson at 18. He is worth the pick, but we have other glaring needsright now.

this draft is DEEP in OT talent, but not so in the Manny Lawson, pass-rushing talent

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't know how fast Thornton is.

he looks plenty fast on the field, but I know what you're saying, I saw his combine numbers too

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No way did I say pick up Lawson in the 1st round. I said in the 3rd round - He should be there.

I doubt it, his pass-rushing skills, and you already noted his 40 time, watch, after offseason workouts, he's going to shoot up the charts, and remember, this time last year, alot of people had Ware in the 3rd/4th round, including me

 

[Bob Sacamano]

James sucks in coverage too, so what's the point?

Oh, that's right, you never have one.

Shanle was awful the second half of the year, his playing time went down after the PHI #2 debacle, and Fowler started over him at the end of the season. Which was interesting since we were short at LB as it was.

Shanle will be lucky to make the 53 man roster next season.

I was scratching my head too, wondering why he pulled an article from early in the season before Shanle got stuck on the bench by Fowler

 

[Bob Sacamano]

why don't we convert ellis to OLB in the willie macgginest mode. they appear very similar physically.


# 55 Willie McGinest
Position: OLB
Height: 6-5
Weight: 270
Born: 12/11/1971
College: Southern California
NFL Experience: 12

# 98 Greg Ellis
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 280
Born: 08/14/1975
College: North Carolina
NFL Experience: 8

if that was a possibility, then Ellis woulda already moved to OLB

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The guy has mad agility and instincts, and with that being said, not even Prototype LB'r are guaranteed to be great coverage guys.

Plus, these guys will play mostly zone, and that requires back up 5 yards and nothing more but closing in on a guy.

And for the poster that said he would be one of the first taken, I don't think so. He's too skinny for 4-3 teams, he would not hold up, and that's why he's the perfect 3-4 character. He will be like the 6th taken if not 10th or so. Their is only 8 3-4 teams, and he's too small to play DE in a 4-3 or 3-4. Doesn't make for a good OLB in the 4-3, plus his talents would be wasted.

I say, even if he runs a 4.43 in the combine, because of his usefulness, he will slip to the 3rd. Low risk, high value. I didn't even mention Elvis Dumervill, who could go to ILB and is a sack machine ( 20 sacks last year ).

why do you want to put pass-rushers at MLB? watch, teams will be drooling over Manny Fresh once they see him workout, and he already has the ability to drop into coverage, hell, he already has a step on Ware, this time last year

 

[Clove]

why do you want to put pass-rushers at MLB? watch, teams will be drooling over Manny Fresh once they see him workout, and he already has the ability to drop into coverage, hell, he already has a step on Ware, this time last year

Yeah, I guess Dumervill would be better suited rushing the passer exclusively, but the others I mentioned, would make great OLB.

Wit regard to Carpenter going to the inside, the reason I mentioned it was because of his natural instincts. ILB'rs are sort of like fat SS and FS. lol Instincts come into play as much as speed and power does.

 

[Rush 2112]

why do you want to put pass-rushers at MLB? watch, teams will be drooling over Manny Fresh once they see him workout, and he already has the ability to drop into coverage, hell, he already has a step on Ware, this time last year

Teddy Bruschi was a pass rush DE at ASU.

Don't want stubby LB's going toe to toe with 6-7 OT.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Teddy Bruschi was a pass rush DE at ASU.

Don't want stubby LB's going toe to toe with 6-7 OT.

the Pats didnt' run a 3-4 when he was moved to MLB