Twitter: Stephen Jones on the Fan Tweetcap - 10/24/14

[Galian Beast]

Nobody cares about the Bills in Canada, just because they are close doesn't mean anybody really cares about them. Having your own Toronto team would make people care a lot more.

So yes...big difference.

...reading comprehension is officially gone...

 

[Fredd]

IMO, an overseas team would fail at a ridiculous level...the players that get drafted by that team would jump ship as soon as possible to come back to the states....why would they want to get on those long flights to play a game and then have to fly back....a London team would never be able to build a winner...and then the "states" teams would never get the franchise players in the draft like an Andrew Luck, because he would have to spend 4 or 5 years plodding along with an inferior product....

just can't see London as an option....worry about US targets like LA (huge market) before trying to stuff your pockets with british pounds (the owner of that team would have to pay ridiculously to get a franchise)....

 

[cowboys2233]

I don't think he's referring to expansion right now, but rather teams moving. At least I hope so. I think adding teams could really mess with the balance right now.

But to answer your question there doesn't need to be even numbers of teams. You flex it with bye weeks. That being said Goodell has said in the past that they wouldn't go to 33 but with 34 instead. Two divisions will have 1 extra team each.

Oh, adding teams will mess with the balance alright. The balance sheet. You can trust that the current owners have very little desire to slice the revenue pie any more than they have to. The ONLY reason they would even discuss expansion is if they were convinced that adding teams would create a disproportionate growth in the overall fan base and by extension, an even better revenue figure. This is why they're so interested in places like London, completely untapped market. By adding a single team there, they believe they can capture a significant percentage of the 63 million people that currently live in the UK. That's a far greater return on their investment than expansion into any U.S. city, including Los Angeles, would offer.

 

[burmafrd]

international expansion to Europe will fail. Having lived there and still talk to people who are there, american football is a curiosity and nothing else.

Those games in london mean NOTHING. They are events and only idiots would take comfort from the attendance at EVENTS to try an put together a team that would have to compete with soccer on yearly basis.

NFL europe showed that american football is at best a club level kind of thing. The excuse that the quality was low is BS. It was at Division 2 level at least and often low level BCS.
An guess what stupid NFL owners. Lots of those that went to those games had no idea they were not watching top quality. You really think that is going to make a difference?

So that arguement is full of crap.

When you add residency problems; taxes (ignored by the NFL but you are talking massive taxes in Europe on income); travel and everything else NFL in europe is about as dumb an idea as you can get.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I think the LA and London talks are more or less ploys. And they're adding San Antonio to the mix.

Have an owner that isn't happy with their stadium and wants the public to pay for it?

Threaten to move to one of those cities.

I can see one team moving to LA, but it will likely be a team that has a significant NFL market. Then they can use that city as another city for another team to threaten to move to.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

When you add residency problems; taxes (ignored by the NFL but you are talking massive taxes in Europe on income); travel and everything else NFL in europe is about as dumb an idea as you can get.

To get an idea, when Phil Mickelson won the British Open a couple of years ago, he was taxed at 61%.

Some will say 'well, he lives in California and the US taxes the wealthy to death.'

Well, not exactly. The breakdown of taxes looked like this:

Federal Income Tax: 3%
California Income Tax: 13%
Scotland's Income Tax: 45%




YR

 

[Nirvana]

With taxes like that free agency is gonna be an issue with a London team.

 

[conner01]

i could see a team being moved to LA in the near future, maybe one moved to london in the coming decade. but i don't see expansion because that is so hard to get done. the nflpa would have to also agree to expansion since the more teams you have the lower the cap will go.the cap is set off total revenues and the majority of the money is tv revenue which won't change with more teams so the cap would go lower if they expanded.

 

[sacase]

The attendance was just as good as an NFL game in the United States. By growing the sport internationally, not only do you get more fans, but you can get better players, which can in turn grow the sport as well.

Oakland has a storied past, but I wouldn't be surprised if they moved to LA.

St. Louis Rams are another team that might be primed to move overseas or to Vegas.

Buffalo Bills might be primed to move.

I think the first time that moves will start a trend if successful in London.

I don't think Vegas is an option. Once you get off the strip there really isn't any money in town. Its a pretty crappy place.

 

[dogunwo]

The best way to handle re-alignment in the scenario of adding two team is to eliminate divisions altogether. AFC and NFC. Every team plays every other team in their conference and the top six teams got to the playoffs.

No way. This isn't baseball. Inter-league play was huge for MLB.

 

[NorthTexan95]

A few thoughts:

* Next season or the season after the Rams will be in LA and maybe Oakland as well. San Diego could replace Oakland if they get their act together but Oakland is definitely more desperate to move. The only hitch is the NFL making sure everything is lined up for building a new stadium which maybe two teams would share. We should know by the end of February if someone is moving for 2015.

* Joe Bailey (longtime former Cowboy executive and a very impressive man) said on Talkin' Cowboys yesterday that he doesn't see an NFL team in London. Instead, the goal for the yearly games is to enhance TV deals in Europe. Personally, I don't see a European team coming for a long, long time if ever.

* San Antonio won't get an NFL team. The Alamodome is no longer NFL quality so any team relocating there would have to immediately start building a new stadium. Plus, after two teams move to LA you'll have two of St. Louis, Oakland, and San Diego available for teams to move to or at least threaten to move to.

These are just my personal thoughts based on some research.

 

[Galian Beast]

I don't think Vegas is an option. Once you get off the strip there really isn't any money in town. Its a pretty crappy place.

You have a ton of people there every day, you could fill a stadium with 100k people weekly.

 

[Galian Beast]

Oh, adding teams will mess with the balance alright. The balance sheet. You can trust that the current owners have very little desire to slice the revenue pie any more than they have to. The ONLY reason they would even discuss expansion is if they were convinced that adding teams would create a disproportionate growth in the overall fan base and by extension, an even better revenue figure. This is why they're so interested in places like London, completely untapped market. By adding a single team there, they believe they can capture a significant percentage of the 63 million people that currently live in the UK. That's a far greater return on their investment than expansion into any U.S. city, including Los Angeles, would offer.

I think you're confusing some things.

I'm not suggesting a LA expansion team, rather the Raiders moving to LA and I could see the Jaguars moving to London. I could also see the Bills eventually moving to Toronto.

As for creating new teams domestically... I would say that Vegas is a prime market that could fill a stadium week in and week out.

There would be potential for a San Antonio team, but I think it would be a mistake.

I do think any expansion would come from Europe, and it would extend from a team having success in London. I don't see the Jaguars being any less successful there.

I think what you'll see is that NFL will try to slowly but surely expand the number of games in London a year, which will test the annual viability of having 8 home games in London. Having a steady team there will obviously help with consistency though.

They had 1 a year dating back to 2007. They had 2 last year, and this year they're going to have 3.

The Jaguars are the obvious candidate, but the fact that they're so bad doesn't really help in terms of making the game exciting there. So far the blowouts don't seem to be impacting attendance.

You have 10x the number of people in London than you do in Jacksonville... It's a huge market and a huge opportunity. I'm surprised they haven't moved already.

 

[Galian Beast]

With taxes like that free agency is gonna be an issue with a London team.

People aren't looking at the big picture, with the tv and merchandising revenue from london, im sure the NFL can make exceptions regarding the salary cap for a british team.

Also to a poster who compared NFL Europe to London having a team, that's as ridiculous as saying the failure of the XFL means football can't work in America...

 

[popp1234]

I just have fun counting the number of, "you know" in his responses to the questions.. Lol

 

[cowboys2233]

I think you're confusing some things.

I'm not suggesting a LA expansion team, rather the Raiders moving to LA and I could see the Jaguars moving to London. I could also see the Bills eventually moving to Toronto.

As for creating new teams domestically... I would say that Vegas is a prime market that could fill a stadium week in and week out.

There would be potential for a San Antonio team, but I think it would be a mistake.

I do think any expansion would come from Europe, and it would extend from a team having success in London. I don't see the Jaguars being any less successful there.

I think what you'll see is that NFL will try to slowly but surely expand the number of games in London a year, which will test the annual viability of having 8 home games in London. Having a steady team there will obviously help with consistency though.

They had 1 a year dating back to 2007. They had 2 last year, and this year they're going to have 3.

The Jaguars are the obvious candidate, but the fact that they're so bad doesn't really help in terms of making the game exciting there. So far the blowouts don't seem to be impacting attendance.

You have 10x the number of people in London than you do in Jacksonville... It's a huge market and a huge opportunity. I'm surprised they haven't moved already.

I'm not confusing anything. I'm not responding to whether you suggested expansion or relocation, I'm just making the point as to why the league is not as gung-ho on expansion as some might think. The reason they haven't already moved to London, despite the big population there, is because they're trying to gauge interest. If they're not interested, the number of people doesn't matter. But if they DO get interested in American football, the potential extends far beyond filling a stadium week in and week out, as you suggest with Vegas. No, the real value is in the advertising, merchandising, etc. -- just a big, blue ocean of potential revenue for the league. The American market is pretty saturated already.

 

[MapleLeaf]

London would be a disaster.

Having done that trip many times in a calendar year for a job the athletes would not be able to carry the rigours of an NFL season along with the other parts of a London/N.A. lifestyle.

If they want to grow the brand in the world export your athletes in the offseason on marketing missions and then export merchandise to make money.

If jerseys and trinkets fail they get quietly sent back to the warehouse. If a team consistently fails it is damn near impossible to pull yourself out of that wreckage.

Don't expose the league to something that won't work on a basic level - logistics. We are decades if not millennia off from a world American football league. Far better to focus on things we can control and improve like safety of players, contract loopholes, referee education, player conduct and TV coverage.

 

[cowboys2233]

London would be a disaster.

Having done that trip many times in a calendar year for a job the athletes would not be able to carry the rigours of an NFL season along with the other parts of a London/N.A. lifestyle.

If they want to grow the brand in the world export your athletes in the offseason on marketing missions and then export merchandise to make money.

If jerseys and trinkets fail they get quietly sent back to the warehouse. If a team consistently fails it is damn near impossible to pull yourself out of that wreckage.

Don't expose the league to something that won't work on a basic level - logistics. We are decades if not millennia off from a world American football league. Far better to focus on things we can control and improve like safety of players, contract loopholes, referee education, player conduct and TV coverage.

Yes, logistics is a major issue and one that the owners are trying to convince themselves doesn't exist. The total travel for a London-based team, having to travel to the States to play eight "away" games, would dwarf any of the other teams, giving them a decided disadvantage (which would also hurt in terms of attracting free agents). But never say never. New modes of transportation are being developed that could turn this trip into nothing more than an hour-long flight.

 

[big dog cowboy]

A few thoughts:

* Next season or the season after the Rams will be in LA and maybe Oakland as well. San Diego could replace Oakland if they get their act together but Oakland is definitely more desperate to move. The only hitch is the NFL making sure everything is lined up for building a new stadium which maybe two teams would share. We should know by the end of February if someone is moving for 2015.

* Joe Bailey (longtime former Cowboy executive and a very impressive man) said on Talkin' Cowboys yesterday that he doesn't see an NFL team in London. Instead, the goal for the yearly games is to enhance TV deals in Europe. Personally, I don't see a European team coming for a long, long time if ever.

* San Antonio won't get an NFL team. The Alamodome is no longer NFL quality so any team relocating there would have to immediately start building a new stadium. Plus, after two teams move to LA you'll have two of St. Louis, Oakland, and San Diego available for teams to move to or at least threaten to move to.

These are just my personal thoughts based on some research.

Very good post.

 

[cowboys2233]

You have a ton of people there every day, you could fill a stadium with 100k people weekly.

Um, only if you allowed smoking and Elvis impersonators in the stadium.