Steve Patterson will be new AD for Texas

[ABQCOWBOY]

No offense meant, but your argument is the one lacking logic.
Graham was at Rice for one season.
He recruited all of one 3-star player. It was not a top 50 class.

At Tulsa he took over for a very successful coach and kept that program going at a high level in a turd conference.
In 2007 he recruited four 3-star kids. But only 1 of those kids was from the state of Texas.
In 2008 he hauled in his first ever 4-star player. And added 4 more 3-stars. But again ftom Texas he only has two 3-star guys and only 5 of the 26 kids he signed were from Texas. .
In 2009 he had a top 50 class and his first ever 4-star Texas recruit. Unfortunately, he ONLY signed 2 other Texas kids period.
In 2010 he had 7 of 25 kids from Texas, no four-stars at all but over half the class was 3-stars.

At Pitt in 2011, only 3 kids from the state of Texas

At ASU in 2012 only 3 of 24.
ASU in 2013 only 4 of 25.

He has recruited TWO Texas kids that are ranked 4 star or higher in his entire head coaching career.
If you can not understand how this equates to him not being proven in recruiting Texas it is pointless to discuss anything with you.

Graham has won games because he knows how to coach. No one has questioned that.
But this isn't conference USA or the WAC or Big East.

He isn't gonna be the UT coach so it doesn't matter but I hope anyone who wanted him gets to be part of the search committee because they'll be bringing in the wrong guy for sure.

Maybe you can point out where I said that he would be the next Head Coach at Texas? What is it with you? You can't have a civil conversation if it meant your life. I said that I didn't believe it was a problem recruiting Texas with Graham and I still do not.

He may not be the next coach but it's not because he can't recruit in Texas. Heck, truth be known, any Head Coach of the University of Texas will recruit well in Texas. That's just the truth of it.

 

[jterrell]

Maybe you can point out where I said that he would be the next Head Coach at Texas? What is it with you? You can't have a civil conversation if it meant your life. I said that I didn't believe it was a problem recruiting Texas with Graham and I still do not.

He may not be the next coach but it's not because he can't recruit in Texas. Heck, truth be known, any Head Coach of the University of Texas will recruit well in Texas. That's just the truth of it.

sigh....
I never said you said he would be.... I said the entire discussion was moot since it has been dispersed that he is off-limits.
The discussion was about his fit as HC. Now no need to bother as he won't be the HC anytime soon if ever.

Nothing worse than having a discussion and once presented with facts someone cries as if they were bullied.

Again to recap the pertinent data:
Graham has NOT proven he can recruit Texas.
No debate needed. That is just fact.

If you don't feel that is an important requirement that becomes opinion and we just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[jterrell]

Maybe you can point out where I said that he would be the next Head Coach at Texas? What is it with you? You can't have a civil conversation if it meant your life. I said that I didn't believe it was a problem recruiting Texas with Graham and I still do not.

He may not be the next coach but it's not because he can't recruit in Texas. Heck, truth be known, any Head Coach of the University of Texas will recruit well in Texas. That's just the truth of it.

No team is guaranteed good recruiting classes. None.
Texas proved that in the 80's and ND and USC and Bama have proved it in large stretches as well.
There are places with built in recruiting advantages and those can be massive but they can also be whittled down to nothing by poor Coaching staffs and Administrations.

Thus why recruiting would be my main concern in the next UT coach were I making the hire.
Someone to take advantage and push that advantage. Before TAMU and Baylor out-recruit you for a few seasons until it becomes the status quo.

A modern rich football program like Texas should have two or three full time elite recruiters.
And then have 2 proven coordinators with younger, energetic guys under them to execute the plans.

Saban has set up all that and more at Bama which is why he is dominating.
He recruits with the very best and coaches with the very best and develops NFL caliber players with the very best.

Art Briles or Nick Saban would almost certainly produce a top 3 class for Texas in their first year of recruiting. (The year after they were hired.)

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No team is guaranteed good recruiting classes. None.
Texas proved that in the 80's and ND and USC and Bama have proved it in large stretches as well.
There are places with built in recruiting advantages and those can be massive but they can also be whittled down to nothing by poor Coaching staffs and Administrations.

I don't agree with you. Even in poor years at Texas, there was still talent. The problem is not the talent for any HC that comes to Texas. It doesn't really matter where he comes from, if he can coach, he will get talent and you know this. You want to argue about some silly "Can't recruit Texas" idea, well, Mack Brown was from the ACC and he recruited Texas well enough.

Bob Stoops had no ties to Texas recruiting before he came to OU and he's recruited well enough.

Continue on with this opinion if you must but before you go on, please explain how the two most succesful coaches in the Big 12, over the past 10 years, have managed to be so successful recruiting in Texas with no real background for it, prior to becoming HCs at UT and OU.

You go on to say that Saban would produce a top 3 recruiting class in Texas next year if he were hired. How do you explain this? You've just said that you can't recruit Texas if you have no ties to it. Saban has never coached in Texas. Even if you say that he has ties from his days at LSU, that was 10 years ago and while we are at it, how do you explain his success at LSU? Prior to being the HC at LSU, he never once coached in the South East, at any level. How could he have accomplished what he did if he never had any ties to SEC recruiting?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

sigh....

I assume the sigh is from re-reading your own posts.

I never said you said he would be.... I said the entire discussion was moot since it has been dispersed that he is off-limits.
The discussion was about his fit as HC. Now no need to bother as he won't be the HC anytime soon if ever.

Since I said that he would not be my choice and I would not like him as a HC, I assume you understand that the whole good fit at Texas thing is something you brought up and not something I ever supported correct?

Nothing worse than having a discussion and once presented with facts someone cries as if they were bullied.

LOL, bullied huh. I'll remember that for future reference.

Again to recap the pertinent data:
Graham has NOT proven he can recruit Texas.
No debate needed. That is just fact.

He does not have to prove he can recruit Texas but for the record, I don't agree that he can not recruit in Texas, which is what I said in the 1st place.

If you don't feel that is an important requirement that becomes opinion and we just agree to disagree and move on.

I feel that it is a benefit but I don't believe that it's the most important factor by a long shot. As I posted earlier, there are many examples of Coaches with no ties to recruiting bases that have come in and had success at, not only Texas, but other high profile schools in the NCAA.

 

[jterrell]

It's pretty clear you are just arguing to argue at this point.

Graham has NEVER proven he can recruit ANYWHERE much less Texas.
When he was at Tulsa they de-emphasized Texas recruiting in fact.

But more than that, Graham is just unproven in all areas. He's never won a major conference title.
He hasn't been a DC of a powerhouse program.
He's just not a proven guy period. He has little to sale to recruits and ADs other than a stretch at Tulsa.
He isn't a candidate for a big time job.
The idea was silly so just let that go.

Being able to recruit here in state is a big deal.

There's an article out now talking about Baylor's resurgence and Briles in state ties is given as much credit as his offensive mind for the resurgence.
The Baylor class rankings keep rising and so does the success they have.
TAMU is recruiting VERY WELL.
Tech has young, energetic Coaches that almost to a man played high school and college ball here in Texas.

As to the non-recruiters you are wrong, of course.
Mack did recruit on a big-time level at UNC. He had top 15 classes.
He won the ACC and had a top 10 overall program.
He didn't walk in with hat in hand to UT.
And he hired well respected Texas guys like the Dallas Carter Cowboys old Coach.
He gained a foothold quickly and the wins followed.
Then as those guys started retiring or leaving he was outrecruited in Texas by Oregon of all friggin teams.
They were cherry picking NFL talent yearly.
UT needs that to end and get back to pulling the largest piece of NFL talent out of the state.
With nearly 25% of NFL teams starting Texas kids at QB there should be 3 or 4 UT guys and yet there is zero.

Bob Stoops is at OU. not Texas.
His specialty in recruiting grew out of his Snyder lineage.
He recruited California and JUCO California well including even while at Florida.
He still to this day does well in California. See RW31.
He doesn't dominate Texas. He doesn't need to.
He gets Oklahoma, California and is competitive in Texas to build quality rosters.

A Texas coach in Austin HAS to dominate Texas recruiting.

You seem awfully unaware of UT football history.
Maybe you are young or a newer fan but they recruited poorly and had crap for talent under McWilliams and Mackovic.
It fell off under the end of Akers and was bad for quite a while.
For the 10 year stretch before Mack's hire they were .500 or below exactly half those seasons.
They were an also-ran, below average program.

The easiest way to win games is recruit quality players.
You won't out-coach these Big 12 coaches with scrubs.
This isn't the AAC conference or some WAC nonsense.
Just ask Patterson how easy it is to out-coach people in the Big 12.

And Baylor and TAMU are very real threats to put UT on its back and keep it there.
That's why I'd be money-whipping in order:
Saban, Briles, Sumlin

At the end of the day it is about the players on the field.
People look at UT's talent and overrate it but truth is they have been recruiting zero finds and almost to a man picking up primadonna overrated guys.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's pretty clear you are just arguing to argue at this point.

Graham has NEVER proven he can recruit ANYWHERE much less Texas.
When he was at Tulsa they de-emphasized Texas recruiting in fact.

But more than that, Graham is just unproven in all areas. He's never won a major conference title.
He hasn't been a DC of a powerhouse program.
He's just not a proven guy period. He has little to sale to recruits and ADs other than a stretch at Tulsa.
He isn't a candidate for a big time job.
The idea was silly so just let that go.

Being able to recruit here in state is a big deal.

There's an article out now talking about Baylor's resurgence and Briles in state ties is given as much credit as his offensive mind for the resurgence.
The Baylor class rankings keep rising and so does the success they have.
TAMU is recruiting VERY WELL.
Tech has young, energetic Coaches that almost to a man played high school and college ball here in Texas.

As to the non-recruiters you are wrong, of course.
Mack did recruit on a big-time level at UNC. He had top 15 classes.
He won the ACC and had a top 10 overall program.
He didn't walk in with hat in hand to UT.
And he hired well respected Texas guys like the Dallas Carter Cowboys old Coach.
He gained a foothold quickly and the wins followed.
Then as those guys started retiring or leaving he was outrecruited in Texas by Oregon of all friggin teams.
They were cherry picking NFL talent yearly.
UT needs that to end and get back to pulling the largest piece of NFL talent out of the state.
With nearly 25% of NFL teams starting Texas kids at QB there should be 3 or 4 UT guys and yet there is zero.

Bob Stoops is at OU. not Texas.
His specialty in recruiting grew out of his Snyder lineage.
He recruited California and JUCO California well including even while at Florida.
He still to this day does well in California. See RW31.
He doesn't dominate Texas. He doesn't need to.
He gets Oklahoma, California and is competitive in Texas to build quality rosters.

A Texas coach in Austin HAS to dominate Texas recruiting.

You seem awfully unaware of UT football history.
Maybe you are young or a newer fan but they recruited poorly and had crap for talent under McWilliams and Mackovic.
It fell off under the end of Akers and was bad for quite a while.
For the 10 year stretch before Mack's hire they were .500 or below exactly half those seasons.
They were an also-ran, below average program.

The easiest way to win games is recruit quality players.
You won't out-coach these Big 12 coaches with scrubs.
This isn't the AAC conference or some WAC nonsense.
Just ask Patterson how easy it is to out-coach people in the Big 12.

And Baylor and TAMU are very real threats to put UT on its back and keep it there.
That's why I'd be money-whipping in order:
Saban, Briles, Sumlin

At the end of the day it is about the players on the field.
People look at UT's talent and overrate it but truth is they have been recruiting zero finds and almost to a man picking up primadonna overrated guys.

And it's pretty clear that you are dodging the question. All of those coaches I named earlier had zero experience in their respective conferences prior to taking big time jobs yet they were all successful, which kinda shoots holes in your theory of must have connections to HS recruiting. I noticed you completely sides stepped that.

But hey, anytime somebody tells me I'm young, I'll take it but JT, your talking out of your you know what here. You know I'm not a kid and I remember McWilliams and Mackovic and Akers and those Texas teams were not devoid of talent and what's more, you know it.

I said the talent at Texas is always there and it is. You avoid that statement by saying that Akers, McWilliams and Mackovic didn't win. Well, no kidding but what does that have to do with the statement? Texas had talent but those coaches did not have success two very different things.

Under Mackovic:

Ricky Williams
Wayne McGarrity
Bryant Westbrook
Dan Neil
Taje Allen
Pat Fitzgerald
Tony Brackens
Blake Brockermeyer
Winfred Tubbs
Lance Gunn
Shane Dronett

All played in the NFL.

Under McWilliams:

Stanley Richards
Kerry Cash
Keith Cash
Johnny Walker
Eric Metcalf
Britt Hagger
Evert Gay
Stephen Braggs

All played in the NFL

Aikers:

Gene Chilton
Ty Albert
John Teltschik
Jerry Gray
Tony Degrate
Terry Orr
Mossy Cade
Doug Dawson

And this is just the last few years of Akers since you specified "The End" of his career at Texas.

Talent is not ever been the problem at Texas, even when the coaching has not been great.

Stoops is at OU but are you trying to say that only at UT do you need to have ties to Texas recruiting? Are you trying to say that you don't need that at other schools? Stoops had no recruiting ties and your statement about him recruiting from other areas is inaccurate. Fact is, it's only been very recently since OU has tried to recruit in other areas. For the first 10 years or so at OU, Stoops recruited Texas very heavily. All you have to do is look up the OU program to confirm it. Even today, right now, of Stoops 95 players, half of them are from Texas. Tell me again how he doesn't have to rely on recruiting Texas.


As far as your statements on Mack, I am not wrong. Show me where he had ties to Texas recruiting before he came to Texas. Your statement was that any Texas Hire would have to have ties to Texas Recruiting. Show me where Mack had those ties before he came to Texas. Doesn't matter what he recruited at UNC. That's the ACC. Doesn't matter what those classes were ranked because your statement was specifically about recruiting Texas. Mack had no ties and yet, he managed to recruit Texas as well as anybody I've ever seen in my lifetime. The whole, ACC top 15 argument is you, once again trying to avoid your own statement. You said a Texas Hire would have to have ties to Texas. Well, there are two examples of very successful coaches who didn't have ties to Texas recruiting but yet, they recruited Texas very well and had a whole bunch of success.

Right now, Texas is pretty much neck and neck with TAM for the better recruiting class. TAM is ranked 5th and UT is 9th and this is in a down year for Texas. If Texas brings in a HC who can coach, it's not going to matter if they have ties to Texas or not. If they can coach, Texas is going to win the recruiting battles for talent in Texas. That's just a simple fact of life and no amount of smoke screen is going to change it.

 

[trickblue]

Patterson will likely replace Mac...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Patterson will likely replace Mac...

Yep.

ABQ called it earlier and I really did not think it was accurate but what I have read since then it seems he was correct.

Word was that Luck wanted them to handle the Mac (cut him) prior to Luck being announced as the New AD. They wanted someone who would do it and be the bad guy.

Personally happy Luck is staying, for now, and I think Texas Lost out on the best AD candidate.

 

[Aikbach]

I live in Austin, and I really dislike how ignorant sports radio is here, it gossips more than informs. So who knows what will happen with Mack, frankly he may be staying.

 

[jterrell]

Texas talent base fell wayyy off under the end of Akers and through McWilliams years.
Mackovic improved it but not consistently.
That is undeniably, beyond a shadow of a doubt fact.
You don't go .500 for a decade with top talent.

Those lists are hilarious. The fact you claim half those guys were actual NFL players shows the comedy you are trying to throw down.

The State of Texas produces an insane amount of NFL talent. Being able to cobble together 8 guys from a 4 years stretch that has cups of coffee is pointless.
EVERY Big 12 school in the State of Texas can do that. I was a high school football player in the State of Texas.
Knew 3 or 4 kids that went to UT to play football.
And watched the best player from my high school team dance at midfield while playing for Miami as they beat Texas by 50.
I have owned every copy of Texas Football for 20 years or so.
And I was accepted into Texas' school of engineering coming out of high school.
I have a very keen sense of the history of the game in this state.

If you can't understand how Oklahoma and Texas differ not sure there is any point in trying to have a logical discussion.
Recruiting the state of Texas is important for every school.
No school has won a title without a Texas kid on the roster in forever.
But those schools do not need to win Texas just cherry pick it.
They win their home states easily and outside Florida or Cali don't have 10 other top 10 schools poaching.

As to the Coaches recruiting again you are wrong. Top 5 recruiting classes don't guarantee national titles but there hasn't been a national title won in over a decade from a team that didn't have a top 5 class on campus.

As we move to NCAA playoffs depth and overall recruiting will become just that much more important.
And if UT doesn't hire a good recruiter they will be very, very sorry.

 

[jterrell]

I live in Austin, and I really dislike how ignorant sports radio is here, it gossips more than informs. So who knows what will happen with Mack, frankly he may be staying.

sports radio is like that everywhere.
the longer they can kick around nonsense the more ears they have to listen and the more segments they get to fill.
it's like the political trick of making everyone else feel smarter than them while drawing them in.

the truth is generally fairly boring and once admitted and discussed it's no good to sports talk radio.

the cowboys are a wonderful example.

listen all week to how they need to get Dez the ball... ignore that he was hurting badly all week and didn't really practice and yet was still double teamed so heavily you had an advantage everywhere else on the field.