Stop trying to convince realists the defense is fine

Did not know that my original post would cause this much dialogue...but that is not a bad thing. Here is what I want to ask the crowd that thinks some of us are unhappy, or negative. What were you thinking every time it was 3rd and long? Did you get the feeling we would stop them, or did you get the feeling they would convert? What were you thinking against Washington as they were driving to take the lead? What were you thinking against Green Bay as we were facing 3rd and 19 from our own 10 with less than a TD lead?

Again, I am glad we won them all...BUT in the playoffs, with only good teams left to play....who have as much film as they will ever have on a team in one season....this is what prompts me to think out loud about the defense. Not 12-1. Not facing Philly this week. This CAN be a special year......in many ways it already is...but we are facing 10 years of futility...and I think we have enough offense to beat anyone IF...IF....IF...this defense plays up to it's price tag/ability!
 
bbailey423;1826485 said:
Did not know that my original post would cause this much dialogue...but that is not a bad thing. Here is what I want to ask the crowd that thinks some of us are unhappy, or negative. What were you thinking every time it was 3rd and long? Did you get the feeling we would stop them, or did you get the feeling they would convert? What were you thinking against Washington as they were driving to take the lead? What were you thinking against Green Bay as we were facing 3rd and 19 from our own 10 with less than a TD lead?
I certainly wasn't thinking that our players suck and we should rebuild.

At times I feel the other team will convert. At times I think we'll stop them. I can't say I think I am 100% either way all the time. It sort of depends on what is happening. Sometimes I just feel we'll get a 3 and out. When I feel that way, sometimes I am right. Sometimes I am wrong.

There's no such thing as right all the time.

Again, I am glad we won them all...BUT in the playoffs, with only good teams left to play....who have as much film as they will ever have on a team in one season....this is what prompts me to think out loud about the defense. Not 12-1. Not facing Philly this week. This CAN be a special year......in many ways it already is...but we are facing 10 years of futility...and I think we have enough offense to beat anyone IF...IF....IF...this defense plays up to it's price tag/ability!
I object to the idea that some of us are pure homers 100% of the time, just as I always objected to some of us are pure haters 100% of the time. I'm lucky in that I have been labeled both. I especially object to the notion that this forum demands no one be negative. That is complete and utter bull.

Come here after any game this season and there are far more negative threads than there are positive ones. After every game there is bound to be these topics posted, sometimes in multiple threads.

Roy sucks and cannot cover. Julius Jones has no business being the starter. Marcus Spears was a wasted pick. Did Bobby Carpenter even see the field. Flozell Adams is a false start waiting to happen. We're even already seeing that we should not have selected Spencer. Completely ignoring the fact that we should be happy that Ellis is playing so well.

The problem arises when some posters dare to see the good despite all the impending doom. As soon as someone does (especially if it is a member of the staff) it's censorship. Bull. The only time posts get edited or deleted here is if they break the Guidelines. The idea that anything is regulated here about opinions is nonsense.

I've seen where one poster brings up the Troy Aikman criticism as an example. Can that poster show me where any thread criticizing Troy Aikman has been deleted or closed? Hell no. So then the only problem is that some posters have the audacity to disagree with those opinions of Troy Aikman. How dare they have their own thoughts. The shame of it all.

ScipioCowboy said it best. No matter what you post there is going to be some backlash from those who don't agree. Anyone who thinks everyone should think exactly as they do all the time is deluded.

So, let me ask you an honest question in return for answering your honest question above. If you understand that others think differently than you do and the team has just won a game they could have lost, what makes you think everyone is going to slap you on the back for noticing not everything was sunshine and roses? Be honest with me here. Do you really expect that an entire forum of over 12,000 members is going to simply nod their heads in agreement with your thoughts? Seriously?
 
Hostile;1826562 said:
I certainly wasn't thinking that our players suck and we should rebuild.

At times I feel the other team will convert. At times I think we'll stop them. I can't say I think I am 100% either way all the time. It sort of depends on what is happening. Sometimes I just feel we'll get a 3 and out. When I feel that way, sometimes I am right. Sometimes I am wrong.

There's no such thing as right all the time.

I object to the idea that some of us are pure homers 100% of the time, just as I always objected to some of us are pure haters 100% of the time. I'm lucky in that I have been labeled both. I especially object to the notion that this forum demands no one be negative. That is complete and utter bull.

Come here after any game this season and there are far more negative threads than there are positive ones. After every game there is bound to be these topics posted, sometimes in multiple threads.

Roy sucks and cannot cover. Julius Jones has no business being the starter. Marcus Spears was a wasted pick. Did Bobby Carpenter even see the field. Flozell Adams is a false start waiting to happen. We're even already seeing that we should not have selected Spencer. Completely ignoring the fact that we should be happy that Ellis is playing so well.

The problem arises when some posters dare to see the good despite all the impending doom. As soon as someone does (especially if it is a member of the staff) it's censorship. Bull. The only time posts get edited or deleted here is if they break the Guidelines. The idea that anything is regulated here about opinions is nonsense.

I've seen where one poster brings up the Troy Aikman criticism as an example. Can that poster show me where any thread criticizing Troy Aikman has been deleted or closed? Hell no. So then the only problem is that some posters have the audacity to disagree with those opinions of Troy Aikman. How dare they have their own thoughts. The shame of it all.

ScipioCowboy said it best. No matter what you post there is going to be some backlash from those who don't agree. Anyone who thinks everyone should think exactly as they do all the time is deluded.

So, let me ask you an honest question in return for answering your honest question above. If you understand that others think differently than you do and the team has just won a game they could have lost, what makes you think everyone is going to slap you on the back for noticing not everything was sunshine and roses? Be honest with me here. Do you really expect that an entire forum of over 12,000 members is going to simply nod their heads in agreement with your thoughts? Seriously?
Nice Post...I don't expect everyone to agree with me...I started the thread because there were so many threads were people questioning the defense were called whiners or haters....I guess we have beaten this to death enough...but in closing I can PROMISE you this...over at Valley Ranch, no one is acting as if that defensive performance will get it done...I can PROMISE you this...many outside of Dallas think this defense will be the reason we do not reach the mountain top this year. And that is the reason I started the thread, because there were too many people chastising those who see this defense for what it was on Sunday.....mediocre!
 
bbailey423;1826672 said:
Nice Post...I don't expect everyone to agree with me...I started the thread because there were so many threads were people questioning the defense were called whiners or haters....I guess we have beaten this to death enough...but in closing I can PROMISE you this...over at Valley Ranch, no one is acting as if that defensive performance will get it done...I can PROMISE you this...many outside of Dallas think this defense will be the reason we do not reach the mountain top this year. And that is the reason I started the thread, because there were too many people chastising those who see this defense for what it was on Sunday.....mediocre!
It's a great thread. Kudos.

The people who are positive are called Pollyannas, apologists, homers, Koolaid drinkers, and according to your thread title non-realists. That's acceptable right? Label the other side, but don't accept labels back?

How does that work?

Look, both sides get in their shots. Denying that is simply going through life with blinders on. What pisses me off is when the "whiners or haters" act like they are persecuted and their opinions are not welcome. That's nonsense. Just don't expect agreement with anything that you post, because as I said the idea of 12,000+ people all nodding and saying amen is highly unlikely.

People disagree with the opinions of others. Welcome to the real world.

Now, let me post one thing with regards to the promise you made above. This is the commentary of Jerry Jones, so don't think this is something coming from me.

"It helps to win close games. Breaks happen to teams that are hustling, work hard and are motivated. That describes the team that we have."

I guess Jerry must be a non-realist. Cheers.
 
Hostile;1826767 said:
I
"It helps to win close games. Breaks happen to teams that are hustling, work hard and are motivated. That describes the team that we have."

I guess Jerry must be a non-realist. Cheers.


Yeah.... when you are good... you get the breaks... you get a little lucky... and maybe even some calls....

As Bruce Horsby sings "thats just the way it is"
 
Hostile;1826767 said:
..."It helps to win close games. Breaks happen to teams that are hustling, work hard and are motivated. That describes the team that we have."

I guess Jerry must be a non-realist. Cheers.

Good post, Hos. I bet, though, you can get all 12,000 members of the board to agree that Jerry is the classic non-realist. It's brought us three Lombardi's though, so I'm not complaining.
 
YoMick;1826788 said:
Yeah.... when you are good... you get the breaks... you get a little lucky... and maybe even some calls....

As Bruce Horsby sings "thats just the way it is"

:lmao2: Wow! I never thought I would see a Bruce Horsby quote on a Dallas Cowboys message board (Or Bruce Hornsby for that Matter)!
 
and the fact it's had about 250 posts doesn't shock me. I agree with the original premise that our defense just isn't champioship caliber. Could it be eventually? Absolutely, but I dont' see it happening this season. What most of you seem to be missing is that there are two kinds of football fans IMO. There are old school fans like myself that love smash mouth, defensive football. And there are of course the majority of fans that love high scoring offense. (It's like preferring white meat over dark; neither is right or wrong: just different.) Of course the NFL wants more offense, so that's why the rule changes have all benefitted the offensive side of the ball. The bottom line is, we're all Cowboys fans on this forum, all love the team and most of us really know what the heck we're talking about. You can never win a debate by questioning the intelligence or demeaning someone you disagree with. It might make you feel superior, but it doesn't change the facts. Those facts are that this defense is leaking some oil. Of course it hurts that Newman and Henry are dinged, but the front seven is healthy and as I posted the other day, I put these troubles on their shoulders more than the secondary. I re-watched the game last night and Kitna had ALL DAY in that pocket guys. If we get pressure, and a push or two throughout that game, it's a different story altogether. That being said, I'm THRILLED we're 12-1 and look forward to the rest of the season.:star:
 
KAY
MICHAEL you say the defense is fine and then you tell me not to worry.

MICHAEL
There are things -- That have been going on for --
-- years between defenses and defensive coordinators -- -- that will not change an that's it.

KAY
You've become blind, MICHAEL.

MICHAEL
Blind to what?

KAY
Look -- look what's happened to our defense, Mike -- my God, look what's happened to our defense, MICHAEL.

MICHAEL
Nothing's happened to it.

KAY
Don't tell me nothing's --

MICHAEL
The defense is fine

KAY
The defense is not fine!

MICHAEL
I don't wanna hear about it.

KAY
You will hear about it!

MICHAEL
I don't wanna hear about it!
I don't wanna hear about it!
I don't wanna hear about it!

Over!
 
newlander;1828583 said:
and the fact it's had about 250 posts doesn't shock me. I agree with the original premise that our defense just isn't champioship caliber. Could it be eventually? Absolutely, but I dont' see it happening this season. What most of you seem to be missing is that there are two kinds of football fans IMO. There are old school fans like myself that love smash mouth, defensive football. And there are of course the majority of fans that love high scoring offense. (It's like preferring white meat over dark; neither is right or wrong: just different.) Of course the NFL wants more offense, so that's why the rule changes have all benefitted the offensive side of the ball. The bottom line is, we're all Cowboys fans on this forum, all love the team and most of us really know what the heck we're talking about. You can never win a debate by questioning the intelligence or demeaning someone you disagree with. It might make you feel superior, but it doesn't change the facts. Those facts are that this defense is leaking some oil. Of course it hurts that Newman and Henry are dinged, but the front seven is healthy and as I posted the other day, I put these troubles on their shoulders more than the secondary. I re-watched the game last night and Kitna had ALL DAY in that pocket guys. If we get pressure, and a push or two throughout that game, it's a different story altogether. That being said, I'm THRILLED we're 12-1 and look forward to the rest of the season.:star:
nice post..I am no coach....but Bobby Carpenter and Anthony Spencer need to play a couple of plays to keep the guys fresh. Is that too much to ask for? I mean they are 1st roudn picks. Spencer can have a simple task when in the game...GO GET THE QB. Carpenter can have a simple task when in the game...pick up the RB/TE...if they stay into block...rush and hit somebody. If nothing else it would give James and Ware and Ellis some well placed breathers. We have to be smart...we need to get Crayton, Newman and Henry some breathers as well. We have to have all hands on deck to achieve our goals this year. These guys riding the pine are getting paid...take some snaps to keep our frontline guys fresh
 
mickgreen58;1828735 said:
And an even better question, does it have to be?

When it comes to beating the Pats, ayup. It's good enough to take them to the Super Bowl in my opinion but for them to beat the Patriots, the defense HAS to be better...
 
This thread has turned into a great discussion with both sides weighing the opinions of the other.

:cool:
 
bbailey423;1828988 said:
nice post..I am no coach....but Bobby Carpenter and Anthony Spencer need to play a couple of plays to keep the guys fresh. Is that too much to ask for? I mean they are 1st roudn picks. Spencer can have a simple task when in the game...GO GET THE QB. Carpenter can have a simple task when in the game...pick up the RB/TE...if they stay into block...rush and hit somebody. If nothing else it would give James and Ware and Ellis some well placed breathers. We have to be smart...we need to get Crayton, Newman and Henry some breathers as well. We have to have all hands on deck to achieve our goals this year. These guys riding the pine are getting paid...take some snaps to keep our frontline guys fresh
Curious why you chose not to respond to me?
 
I completely acknowledge your points. I'm hoping like anything that we've got enough on defense....we'll just have to see. Believe me, I'd love to be wrong on this. As many have said, maybe last Sun. was just a post G.Bay letdown: 10 days off could have had some effect too. Onward and upward.:starspin
 
the defense obviously is NOT fine but really its not as bad as some people make it out to be. for those that think is horrible well I guess we can hope they go on a run similar to what the Colts D did last year by magically getting better in the playoffs. but we will be fine IMO because we can for the most part stop the run and create turnovers...
 
Hostile;1826767 said:
It's a great thread. Kudos.

The people who are positive are called Pollyannas, apologists, homers, Koolaid drinkers, and according to your thread title non-realists. That's acceptable right? Label the other side, but don't accept labels back?

How does that work?

Look, both sides get in their shots. Denying that is simply going through life with blinders on. What pisses me off is when the "whiners or haters" act like they are persecuted and their opinions are not welcome. That's nonsense. Just don't expect agreement with anything that you post, because as I said the idea of 12,000+ people all nodding and saying amen is highly unlikely.

People disagree with the opinions of others. Welcome to the real world.

Now, let me post one thing with regards to the promise you made above. This is the commentary of Jerry Jones, so don't think this is something coming from me.

"It helps to win close games. Breaks happen to teams that are hustling, work hard and are motivated. That describes the team that we have."

I guess Jerry must be a non-realist. Cheers.
ok...since you said I ignored this post.....I'll respond....I love Jerry, but he is an admitted optimist....so some of things he says you have to take with a grain of salt...I don't know what more I can say Hos....we just disagree on this topic...I see a defense that can be spread out and thrown on when you get a superior QB...which is what Favre, Manning and Brady are. Remeber, for me...this is not about how we will look against Philly or Carolina or Washington. I think the defense will play well...I am forecasting that I don't like what I think is coming. That is the blueprint to putting up points on this defense....and there are teams in our way of the Lombardi trophy that are very capable of pulling this strategy off
 
bbgun;1826147 said:
Well, New England held our offense to 20 points (17, if you consider we got three points from a 73-yd kickoff return). Your strategy is to win a wild shootout with NE or Indy? Good luck with that.

yep, because no D is capable of stopping those 2 offenses

this isn't a defensive league anymore, you have to outscore the opponent
 
Bob Sacamano;1829795 said:
yep, because no D is capable of stopping those 2 offenses

this isn't a defensive league anymore, you have to outscore the opponent

word.

quarterbacks are babied
wide recievers are babied

Michael Wilbon said it best (this might've been posted in the thread already) "The NFL has legislated defense out of the game." I hate Wilbon as much as the next cowboy fan, but he's got a point.
 

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