Sullivan and Helman on the Holding Calls

[CalPolyTechnique]

Did anyone look at the breakdown link Helman provided? Maybe I am not reading it correctly but there several teams that have not received many holding calls. I was hoping to see a much larger gap between Dallas and the other teams.

Accepted Holding calls

NE: 9
GB: 9
Det: 9
Car: 9
NO: 8
Min: 8
Ten: 8
Phl: 7
Dal: 6

Rut roh, could that be context?

It’s much more impactful statement to say “the Cowboys have gotten less than half the average...”

Yeah, that’s how a standard bell curve average works.

Shame on Helman, he’s smarter than that.

 

[yimyammer]

For one, I don't have a reference to 666.

 

[DogFace]

Rut roh, could that be context?

It’s much more impactful statement to say “the Cowboys have gotten less than half the average...”

Yeah, that’s how a standard bell curve average works.

Shame on Helman, he’s smarter than that.

You’re so helpful.

 

[Longboysfan]

Conspiracy-be-damned, this isn't something that can be denied.

We are literally seeing our DL getting tackled with nothing being called. I've never seen anything like it

Goes back to last year against Green Bay in the playoff game.

 

[LandryFan]

What is interesting is that Tank made that statement and the League did not fine him. Which they usually do when someone specifically criticizes the officials.

I thought fines were usually announced on Thursday (today)...I could be wrong. Not fining him would be the right thing, but the league doesn't give one crap about what's right..

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

You’re so helpful.

And you’re so useless.

 

[diefree666]

I thought fines were usually announced on Thursday (today)...I could be wrong. Not fining him would be the right thing, but the league doesn't give one crap about what's right..

I thought it was tuesday but usually you hear rumblings prior to but you never know with this bunch of goombahs

 

[DogFace]

And you’re so useless.

 

[CyberB0b]

My wife, who barely knows what's going on, has said multiple times that she notices that our guys get tackled at the line of scrimmage. It's blatant.

 

[LandryFan]

I thought it was tuesday but usually you hear rumblings prior to but you never know with this bunch of goombahs

I recall Jimmy Johnson bashing the officiating after a game back in the 90's and he didn't get fined either. The reported reason that he didn't get fined was because he was right (the officiating in that game was atrocious and cost us a game). I'd be shocked if that were the case again here, but it would be good, if so.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Two comments on the Holding Calls on DC.com, both from guys that are pretty much company men but neither can avoid the Elephant in the kitchen. Jeff Sullivan posted this on DC.com today:

• I rarely talk about the officiating, just not worth it, and it’s always been my belief that they are doing the best they can. I officiated high school basketball for a few years and it was the most difficult job I’ve ever had. It just all moves so quickly, and again, that’s at the high school level. Still, go back and watch DeMarcus Lawrence every snap of that game. I watched the tape this morning and counted 11 holding penalties, six of them blatant. And zero were called. Somehow, he still finished with six hurries and two really impressive solo tackles against the run. “Tank” is still the front-runner for Defensive Player of the Year, but a few more sacks down the stretch certainly wouldn’t hurt his case.

David Helman posted this yesterday:


But you get the point. There has been a noticeable lack of holdings calls for this Dallas defense this season.

I actually took the time to look it up, thanks to the wonders of the Internet. Here is your breakdown.

So, yes. Lawrence isn’t imagining things. The Cowboys have only benefitted from eight holding calls all year – and four of those came in the first three weeks of the season. From Week 4 against Los Angeles, until Week 10 against Atlanta, they didn’t receive a single holding call from an opposing offensive lineman.

On strictly offensive and defensive plays, NFL refs have thrown a total of 514 offensive holding flags this year. That’s an average of 16 per team – so the Cowboys have received exactly half of the league average.

 

[Kevinicus]

Rut roh, could that be context?

It’s much more impactful statement to say “the Cowboys have gotten less than half the average...”

Yeah, that’s how a standard bell curve average works.

Shame on Helman, he’s smarter than that.

It's some context, but not the entire picture, and certainly not the most pertinent.

Better context is that Dallas had 4 in September and then was suddenly cut off for the bulk of the season. That is extremely unusual and suspect. More so when you factor in that Dallas has one of the more productive pass rushes in the league this season...even without calls.

It's one thing if they get just a few throughout the season if they are spread out, a game here or there. At least it would have some appearance of legitimacy.

Other teams having just a few penalties also doesn't necessarily show anything either. One of those teams could deserve twice as many holds as the other team. We've certainly witnessed many blatant holds that should have been called, sometimes several on one play.

Accepted penalties isn't the right number either. The total, including those that were declined and offset should be factored in as well.

The league should be asked by the media how it's possible that a team doesn't have a holding call for that period of time.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It's some context, but not the entire picture, and certainly not the most pertinent.

Better context is that Dallas had 4 in September and then was suddenly cut off for the bulk of the season. That is extremely unusual and suspect. More so when you factor in that Dallas has one of the more productive pass rushes in the league this season...even without calls.

It's one thing if they get just a few throughout the season if they are spread out, a game here or there. At least it would have some appearance of legitimacy.

Other teams having just a few penalties also doesn't necessarily show anything either. One of those teams could deserve twice as many holds as the other team. We've certainly witnessed many blatant holds that should have been called, sometimes several on one play.

Accepted penalties isn't the right number either. The total, including those that were declined and offset should be factored in as well.

The league should be asked by the media how it's possible that a team doesn't have a holding call for that period of time.

This is the mistake fans on our side are making. Their view of what is occurring in the rest of the league on a game-by-game basis is severely myopic, as to be expected. If you’re a Cowboys fan, chances are you aren’t watching Jaguars or Bills games in terms sheer number or more importantly interest. So anytime the notion of “there should have been more called” there’s no thought to all the missed calls other teams have experienced.

According to the numbers I’m seeing (nflpenalties.com) there are nine (9) other teams that have as many or less “benificiary” defensive holding calls that have been made. That includes penalties that have been declined by the defense. You say distribution matters? How do you think the Saints feel as they have only had a whopping 3 defensive holding calls in 13 games!

The point is, any substantial random data set has outliers and anamolies, but almost always takes the shape of a bell curve. Cowboy fans just don’t like it because we happen to be on the wrong end of the curve.

 

[TheHerd]

Conspiracy-be-damned, this isn't something that can be denied.

We are literally seeing our DL getting tackled with nothing being called. I've never seen anything like it

And often literally in front of a ref as the DL is about to close on the QB. DLaw had three last game. 3 times he was tackled as he was getting past the OL and clearly in the open (not shielded so there's a thought that the ref missed it).

It's astounding there are still people who think it's all legit. I have to believe something's going in because it's a lot more plausible than thinking paid professionals are really THAT bad at their job.

 

[Kevinicus]

This is the mistake fans on our side are making. Their view of what is occurring in the rest of the league on a game-by-game basis is severely myopic, as to be expected. If you’re a Cowboys fan, chances are you aren’t watching Jaguars or Bills games in terms sheer number or more importantly interest. So anytime the notion of “there should have been more called” there’s no thought to all the missed calls other teams have experienced.

According to the numbers I’m seeing (nflpenalties.com) there are nine (9) other teams that have as many or less “benificiary” defensive holding calls that have been made. That includes penalties that have been declined by the defense. You say distribution matters? How do you think the Saints feel as they have only had a whopping 3 defensive holding calls in 13 games!

The point is, any substantial random data set has outliers and anamolies, but almost always takes the shape of a bell curve. Cowboy fans just don’t like it because we happen to be on the wrong end of the curve.

I didn't say the Cowboys were or weren't more deserving of calls. I said that is a potential factor and that other teams being low did not mean things were being called fairly.

Of course other teams have missed calls. Every game has missed calls. However, every team does not go 8+ games without a call. THAT is an extreme anomaly that goes beyond being a mere outlier.

Maybe the Saints do have a beef they should bring up as well. I don't know.

It doesn't hurt to make the league respond to these questions. There is clear video of blatant violations with the refs staring right at it. Why are they choosing not to call these?

 

[KingintheNorth]

lol, just as your opinion is totally wrong. Someone with 666 as their username, ya otay.

Mickey is about as bad a homer as there is.

Zero integrity as a journalist.

 

[Kaiser]

Yeah, that’s how a standard bell curve average works.

But its not accurate to look at season averages. Its also not a standard bell curve to have the normal amount of calls for three games and then nothing after that.

If I have high blood pressure for three months and then die, my average heartrate over the course of the year will be a number that is below average. But it doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Helman is far from a company man. They're all allowed to speak their minds on DC.com...the only 'company man' is Micky.

The Break consistently talk about how poor the playcalling has been which includes their boss, Derek Eagleton.

They are not told what to say certainly but there are certain things they are not allowed to say. It is not journalistic freedom at the Star.

 

[Kaiser]

Of course other teams have missed calls. Every game has missed calls. However, every team does not go 8+ games without a call. THAT is an extreme anomaly that goes beyond being a mere outlier.

And the players know what they can get away with and will push the limits. When NFL DBs see PI is being called tight, they back off. When they see its being called loosely they get more aggressive. The Dallas OL can win on talent and don't have to hold more than the average team. When a backup OL is facing DLaw as the league sack leader, he needs to hold. Then when he sees he can tackle DLaw with no flag being thrown, he is going to hold on ever play.

That is DLaw's complaint.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

But its not accurate to look at season averages. Its also not a standard bell curve to have the normal amount of calls for three games and then nothing after that.

If I have high blood pressure for three months and then die, my average heartrate over the course of the year will be a number that is below average. But it doesn't tell the whole story.

So, please, give us the acceptable number of games it is to go without a benificial holding penalty on the defense?

And after you provide that number, please reference the authority on which you’re basing that arbitrary number on.