T.O has a point here regardless of JG success

Idgit

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Thread full of folks attacking TO's character because they know they cant refute his points. Color me surprised

People attack TO’s character because he has low character, period. He’s earned that at every NFL stop in his career.

People who are agreeing with him just happen to share his opinion. Which is what you’d expect. If we were talking about some of the things TO had to say about Tony or Witten on his way out where the majority happens to disagree, TO’s motives would rightly come into play again and everybody would understand his take doesn’t matter much because he’s a narcissist who makes things up to create controversy.
 

SoupcanSam

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Imagine if Garrett were fired tomorrow and replaced by Marvin Lewis. I bet there are actually people here that would claim that the team somehow got worse.

If that happens our whole fanbase would be on suicide watch while committing
 

DejectedFan1996

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I think it’s funny people think TO left buffalo and Cincy on bad terms not realizing he got the opportunity in Cincy because Fitz and Palmer are buddies and Fitz voucher for him. Same reason he got a shot on Seattle.
 

Idgit

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I think it’s funny people think TO left buffalo and Cincy on bad terms not realizing he got the opportunity in Cincy because Fitz and Palmer are buddies and Fitz voucher for him. Same reason he got a shot on Seattle.

Perhaps. But then there's stuff like this, from his time in CIN:

“You start with the head coach, and then you start with the staff on both sides of the ball,” Owens said on NFL Network’s Total Access. “Offensively, we didn't really have the coaching we needed to muster what we had on the offensive side of the ball.”

But Owens wasn’t done with head coach Marvin Lewis and his staff. Responding to NFL Network analyst Warren Sapp naming Bengals owner Mike Brown, Owens said Brown also deserves a heaping help of blame.

“I’ve made a comment about if you’re trying to win some championships, it starts from the top down,” Owens said. “[Sapp] mentioned Mike Brown; I think even before I got there, they said the owner was a little different. Obviously, I saw that.”

According to Owens, the players were good enough that the Bengals should have been a good team. But the players couldn’t do it alone.

“I think if you look at the talent we had in that locker room this year and we mustered four wins, that should let you know something is not right,” Owens said. “Throughout the year, I saw some things that really wasn’t right.”

Of course, there were reports during the season that one of the things that wasn’t right was Owens himself not being a good teammate. And there have been indications that the reason Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer wants out is that he’s sick of having bad teammates, including Owens.

But Owens says the blame for Palmer wanting out starts at the top, too.

“Obviously if you have your franchise quarterback who is supposed to be that guy for your team trying to get out of there, that’s kind of telling the organization something, and that’s telling a lot of people out there something as well,” Owens said.
Or this, below. I know it's just the Allen Wranglers in this case, and not an actual NFL team:

Terrell Owens is one of the most talented receivers the NFL has seen in the past few decades, but his ego and age will prevent him from joining up with a new team now that the Allen Wranglers of the Indoor Football League are done with him.

T.O. was cut from the team that he had part ownership of after refusing to travel for away games and missing a scheduled appearance at a local children's hospital...Owens failed to show up for a scheduled appearance at a local children’s hospital with players and coaches and the team says he planned to skip two upcoming road games.

Or this. I know this isn't a team at all, but just a selection of women he'd reportedly slept with and then potentially fathered children on:

Earlier this month Owens went on the “Dr. Phil” show to confront three mothers of children he fathered over their claims that he failed to pay child support.

Apart from those things, though...and apart from the issues he had in SF. And the issues he had in PHI. Oh, and the issues he had in Dallas. Apart from that stuff, he seems like a good guy, pretty reasonable about what it takes to build a team and get along with others, and very responsible and likely to be a man of his word.

I don't know what it is you guys are willfully missing about TO. Fantastic football player. Objectively terrible human being. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
 

Diehardblues

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I don't know how else to explain how those six sat and discussed during that round table how Johnson as late as the day before the draft still wanted Mandarich and how Johnson first wanted James Francis and then Tony Bennett and wasn't even thinking of Emmitt. This is what happened but those who think Johnson had all this power and authority and ran things in Dallas disbelieve this. So either those six lied about what happened on live world wide TV or the doubters are wrong. Can't have it both ways.
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Again ,I’m not disputing the situation with Emmitt.
 

Verdict

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If TO said it, then that lowers the validity of whatever point he is making. If TO really wanted to hurt Garrett, he should say Garret is the best coach in the history of the NFL.
 

Verdict

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I think I'd give up next year's 2nd rounder too. And no, not to save Garrett, but if I thought this team has a real shot at a title with a Hall of Fame safety.

But, if it's true that Thomas is looking for a huge raise over the $10 million a year he's making?

Count me out. Not paying it. Let Seattle deal with that. I'll "get by" with Xavier Woods and possibly sign Tre Boston for a year or two. He's one option on the street that would improve the team from where they are now, whether he's a "perfect fit" or not.

Safety is getting like nose tackle for me, apparently they'd rather play with subpar than sign someone who might not be their ideal picture. Sometimes, you settle for getting the job done.

Probably pretty accurate.
 

Sheffielder74UK

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Without listening or reading what TO had to say, JG is not a game manager. He gets lost in key moments and that won't change.
 

RustyBourneHorse

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Yes, I'm pumped about the LOB coach working with our guys. That does give me a lot of optimism about maximizing the talent and strengths of each player. Maybe we don't need an upgrade at safety with new coaching

Well, we'll see what happens this season. I'm interested to see what he can do with the young guys.
 

DejectedFan1996

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Perhaps. But then there's stuff like this, from his time in CIN:

“You start with the head coach, and then you start with the staff on both sides of the ball,” Owens said on NFL Network’s Total Access. “Offensively, we didn't really have the coaching we needed to muster what we had on the offensive side of the ball.”

But Owens wasn’t done with head coach Marvin Lewis and his staff. Responding to NFL Network analyst Warren Sapp naming Bengals owner Mike Brown, Owens said Brown also deserves a heaping help of blame.

“I’ve made a comment about if you’re trying to win some championships, it starts from the top down,” Owens said. “[Sapp] mentioned Mike Brown; I think even before I got there, they said the owner was a little different. Obviously, I saw that.”

According to Owens, the players were good enough that the Bengals should have been a good team. But the players couldn’t do it alone.

“I think if you look at the talent we had in that locker room this year and we mustered four wins, that should let you know something is not right,” Owens said. “Throughout the year, I saw some things that really wasn’t right.”

Of course, there were reports during the season that one of the things that wasn’t right was Owens himself not being a good teammate. And there have been indications that the reason Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer wants out is that he’s sick of having bad teammates, including Owens.

But Owens says the blame for Palmer wanting out starts at the top, too.

“Obviously if you have your franchise quarterback who is supposed to be that guy for your team trying to get out of there, that’s kind of telling the organization something, and that’s telling a lot of people out there something as well,” Owens said.
Or this, below. I know it's just the Allen Wranglers in this case, and not an actual NFL team:

Terrell Owens is one of the most talented receivers the NFL has seen in the past few decades, but his ego and age will prevent him from joining up with a new team now that the Allen Wranglers of the Indoor Football League are done with him.

T.O. was cut from the team that he had part ownership of after refusing to travel for away games and missing a scheduled appearance at a local children's hospital...Owens failed to show up for a scheduled appearance at a local children’s hospital with players and coaches and the team says he planned to skip two upcoming road games.

Or this. I know this isn't a team at all, but just a selection of women he'd reportedly slept with and then potentially fathered children on:

Earlier this month Owens went on the “Dr. Phil” show to confront three mothers of children he fathered over their claims that he failed to pay child support.

Apart from those things, though...and apart from the issues he had in SF. And the issues he had in PHI. Oh, and the issues he had in Dallas. Apart from that stuff, he seems like a good guy, pretty reasonable about what it takes to build a team and get along with others, and very responsible and likely to be a man of his word.

I don't know what it is you guys are willfully missing about TO. Fantastic football player. Objectively terrible human being. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Many of those articles including the one about traveling for the Allen Wranglers game were refuted and justified. Carson also leaving the Bengals had nothing to do with TO and again continued to vouch for him saying he could still play at 37.

But I forgot he called out your boy Garrett so I get it.

“Terrible human being.” Look at how you’ve characterized a man based on him being outspoken about COACHES.

So if I present a scenario to someone outside CZ or one who doesn’t have an agenda, I’m really curious how you’d think this would play out.

Person A: stabbed a teammate
Person B: outspoken and vocal about coaches and player personnel as it relates to having success on the football field. (I’ll even throw in ‘made reference to his Quarterbacks sexuality)

Which one is a “terrible human being”?

I can tell you outside the bubble of CZ you live in that everyone would pick the person who stabbed someone as a “terrible human being” over the guy that was a “NFL locker room cancer.”

But carry on. Owens is SUCH a TERRIBLE HUMAN. How dare he criticize coaches/General Managers!

It’s the off-season and the cowboys are starting to dry out from an entertainment perspective. All that needs to happen is to finally impact Jerry’s pockets like it did in 2001-2003 and maybe we then see some light at the end of the tunnel
 
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Corso

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Many of those articles including the one about traveling for the Allen Wranglers game were refuted and justified. Carson also leaving the Bengals had nothing to do with TO and again continued to vouch for him saying he could still play at 37.

But I forgot he called out your boy Garrett so I get it.

“Terrible human being.” Look at how you’ve characterized a man based on him being outspoken about COACHES.

So if I present a scenario to someone outside CZ or one who doesn’t have an agenda, I’m really curious how you’d think this would play out.

Person A: stabbed a teammate
Person B: outspoken and vocal about coaches and player personnel as it relates to having success on the football field. (I’ll even throw in ‘made reference to his Quarterbacks sexuality)

Which one is a “terrible human being”?

I can tell you outside the bubble of CZ you live in that everyone would pick the person who stabbed someone as a “terrible human being” over the guy that was a “NFL locker room cancer.”

But carry on. Owens is SUCH a TERRIBLE HUMAN. How dare he criticize coaches/General Managers!

It’s the off-season and the cowboys are starting to dry out from an entertainment perspective. All that needs to happen is to finally impact Jerry’s pockets like it did in 2001-2003 and maybe we then see some light at the end of the tunnel
I find it amusing that this rattles so many cages.
 

Idgit

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“Terrible human being.” Look at how you’ve characterized a man based on him being outspoken about COACHES.

So if I present a scenario to someone outside CZ or one who doesn’t have an agenda, I’m really curious how you’d think this would place out.

Person A: stabbed a teammate
Person B: outspoken and vocal about coaches and player personnel as it relates to having success on the football field. (I’ll even throw in ‘made reference to his Quarterbacks sexuality)

Which one is a “terrible human being”?

I can tell you outside the bubble of CZ you live in that everyone would pick the person who stabbed someone as a “terrible human being” over the guy that was a “NFL locker room cancer.”

But carry on. Owens is SUCH a TERRIBLE HUMAN. How dare he criticize coaches/General Managers!

It’s the off-season and the cowboys are starting to dry out from an entertainment perspective. All that needs to happen is to finally impact Jerry’s pockets like it did in 2001-2003 and maybe we then see some light at the end of the tunnel

You're making the mistake of assuming I think he's a terrible person because of what he had to say about coaches.

You're also making the mistake of thinking both Person A and Person B in your example couldn't both be terrible. The two as you've described them aren't mutually exclusive.

And most of what TO has done that's most objectionable actually happened outside his time in Dallas and outside the bubble of CZ.com. I actually happen to think he was a reasonable signing here, overall. He's also a deeply troubled dude.
 

DejectedFan1996

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You're making the mistake of assuming I think he's a terrible person because of what he had to say about coaches.

You're also making the mistake of thinking both Person A and Person B in your example couldn't both be terrible. The two as you've described them aren't mutually exclusive.

And most of what TO has done that's most objectionable actually happened outside his time in Dallas and outside the bubble of CZ.com. I actually happen to think he was a reasonable signing here, overall. He's also a deeply troubled dude.

The point I’m making is that others (besides yourself) believe Owens is this terrible human walking this earth but in the same breath have nothing but praise for Michael Irvin. Why? Because he helped your football team win titles. They could care less about anything off the field as it relates to being a “terrible human being” as you put it. “He helped us win so let me justify his action.”

If you step away from your keyboard and walk outside and ask someone if they think a person who is a “locker room cancer in the nfl” a terrible human being they are probably going to say no.

In that same breath, If you pose that same question regarding a person who’s stabbed someone (a teammate at that) they’d probably say “yes he’s a terrible human being.”

I just find it amazing that people can use that type of language towards someone so loosely. So if TO is a terrible human being what’s a rapist? Child molester? It has to be something far worse than terrible human being.

But maybe not on CZ as if that same rapist or child molester helped the team they root for win rings, if wouldn’t matter
 

Dbeastmode21

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Nothing wrong with TO hé Just said all the same things like Everybody else on here.but now Owens say it,the perfect people are complaining
 

Idgit

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The point I’m making is that others (besides yourself) believe Owens is this terrible human walking this earth but in the same breath have nothing but praise for Michael Irvin. Why? Because he helped your football team win titles. They could care less about anything off the field as it relates to being a “terrible human being” as you put it. “He helped us win so let me justify his action.”

If you step away from your keyboard and walk outside and ask someone if they think a person who is a “locker room cancer in the nfl” a terrible human being they are probably going to say no.

In that same breath, If you pose that same question regarding a person who’s stabbed someone (a teammate at that) they’d probably say “yes he’s a terrible human being.”

I just find it amazing that people can use that type of language towards someone so loosely. So if TO is a terrible human being what’s a rapist? Child molester? It has to be something far worse than terrible human being.

But maybe not on CZ as if that same rapist or child molester helped the team they root for win rings, if wouldn’t matter

Again. There is more than one reason to consider somebody a terrible person. And again, TO has done more than just be a locker room cancer and complain about his coaches.

You’re also assuming I’ve said Michael Irvin is a good person, which isn’t an argument I’ve made.
 
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