Taco, HOF game, Waldo’s 3-4 and more

[FuzzyLumpkins]

again it is about uncertainty of what the offense will get, as well as the timing of the shifting.
part of the shift pattern is back to the 4-3 where the RDE is in fact lined up wide 9 against a weak side run.
another thing is you dont always start in the 4-3, but also start in the 3-4
and part of the shift is back to the 4-3 which is played some of the time.

the main weakness is the weakside like u said, and you may bait a run in 3 and very long - that would be a scheme win.
and the S/LB that spy/delay blitz is someone who may be fast/agile enough to get around the LT like S or Jaylon.
also the DE will be in the LT-LG gap to help keep the LT busy.

but yes it is a race but that is the nature of an aggressive D.
will the a-gap guy and other guys get there before QB gets the ball away.
that is why i think we can play this D because our O is so dominant.
all we need to play this D is a OLB and a NT - 1st and 2nd round picks.

lets say offense responds.
question is what they can do.
they can go in shotgun, they can add protection, they can call for a screen

lets say QB is under center and he goes into shot gun.
then that makes a run less effective and it may be worth our while to shift jaylon from pass rush to drop back.

while screen is always a counter to a blitz, the 3 DLs are expected to occupy the OL to facilitate things for the blitzers, so they are not expected to have penetrated far beyond the LOS.
again we would play zone behind so there is a safety net.
and we may well have a 2 man advantage in defender vs receiver - i did the math before.

Lots of words and little substance. As soon as the OLB crosses the formation the check goes in and you're screwed. The LT is going to crush the LB mucking up pursuit to the second level and a pulling guard or H/F-back will have more than enough time to get around to the S. If the WR makes his block the sideline is wide open for a huge play.

If you don't have a balanced formation you are going to get destroyed in the running and short passing game. Leaving the LT free to roam is not as good an idea as you put on.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

again my proposal is IF the D sucked this year.
we all have hope for collins.
lets not forget he has been dinged both camps.
if our D progresses, then we could add some SLB scheme like you and X said.
also it is good to finally see the RDE standing up in some cases and i presume he is lining up wider also (though not sure).

The defense has steadily improved for the past 4 years and there have been repeated worries. I find it boring now that it is on repeat.

Collins played 16 games last season. And you ignore the point about him not having a place in a 3-4. You throw him, Mayowa, Paea, Crawford, and Tapper away.

 

[waldoputty]

The defense has steadily improved for the past 4 years and there have been repeated worries. I find it boring now that it is on repeat.

Collins played 16 games last season. And you ignore the point about him not having a place in a 3-4. You throw him, Mayowa, Paea, Crawford, and Tapper away.

if collins plays great, then the bad scenario would probably not happen.

paea is on a 1 year contract.
mayowa has 1 year left after 1 season, and he is not great. he could probably be the backup OLB.
i am guessing tapper would be one LB that will be purely used in blitzing.
i dont think he is that great but this takes him away from the LT.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

if collins plays great, then the bad scenario would probably not happen.

paea is on a 1 year contract.
mayowa has 1 year left after 1 season, and he is not great. he could probably be the backup OLB.
i am guessing tapper would be one LB that will be purely used in blitzing.
i dont think he is that great but this takes him away from the LT.

Collins can play great and the defense underperform. Either way he is a good player.

Mayowa started to come on in the second half of last season and is a quality rush end.

You can guess all you like but Tapper has never stood up in his career as a LB and weighs 270 lbs.

And your unbalanced formation notion is crap. There is a reason why no team ever does it.

 

[waldoputty]

Lots of words and little substance. As soon as the OLB crosses the formation the check goes in and you're screwed. The LT is going to crush the LB mucking up pursuit to the second level and a pulling guard or H/F-back will have more than enough time to get around to the S. If the WR makes his block the sideline is wide open for a huge play.

If you don't have a balanced formation you are going to get destroyed in the running and short passing game. Leaving the LT free to roam is not as good an idea as you put on.

what i am suggesting is definitely trading off rush defense for pass defense as you are basically daring the offense to rush particularly to the weakside.
i know that.
but in many situations, that is a nice and desirable tradeoff.

you are saying that the offense will trigger based on the OLB, but again that is where timing is critical.

in 1st and 10, the blitzing would be more conservative. such as only 5 person blitzing.

the S/LB would be playing off the LT by a few yards so the LT will not have an easy time taking him out. the S/LB i picked were jaylon and heath - both run sub-4.5

 

[waldoputty]

Collins can play great and the defense underperform. Either way he is a good player.

Mayowa started to come on in the second half of last season and is a quality rush end.

You can guess all you like but Tapper has never stood up in his career as a LB and weighs 270 lbs.

And your unbalanced formation notion is crap. There is a reason why no team ever does it.

we will see how good collins is this year.

mayowa may have got a few sacks last year, but he looked like he fell on the QB most of the time.

tapper was 260 and supposedly lost weight? he may well be 250. he may not be the ideal guy trying to shoot the a-gap as i am not sure how quick he is despite his 40 time. however he may fit quite well lined up outside of the TE.

i dont think this unbalanced scheme is so unprecedented. there has been lots of exotic blitzing schemes, and i think have seen some leaving OL uncovered. it is not as if i created anything new here. i just think it is a good fit given the dominance of the offense.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

what i am suggesting is definitely trading off rush defense for pass defense as you are basically daring the offense to rush particularly to the weakside.
i know that.
but in many situations, that is a nice and desirable tradeoff.

you are saying that the offense will trigger based on the OLB, but again that is where timing is critical.

in 1st and 10, the blitzing would be more conservative. such as only 5 person blitzing.

the S/LB would be playing off the LT by a few yards so the LT will not have an easy time taking him out. the S/LB i picked were jaylon and heath - both run sub-4.5

except it opens up the short passing game too. and leaving a sideline wide open to a runner is not a good thing and will lead to big plays.

LT are always the better more agile tackles. This notion that that they would not be able to reach the LB consistently is fantasy.

Offenses try to motion and do all sorts of things to get overloads to one side and you are giving it to them without them having to try. You really just don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Sidenote, it does need to be pointed out that we didn't draft a single LB this year.

If we were remotely actually thinking about a change to the 3-4, that wouldn't have happened and Rod would've been fired by now.

 

[waldoputty]

except it opens up the short passing game too. and leaving a sideline wide open to a runner is not a good thing and will lead to big plays.

LT are always the better more agile tackles. This notion that that they would not be able to reach the LB consistently is fantasy.

Offenses try to motion and do all sorts of things to get overloads to one side and you are giving it to them without them having to try. You really just don't know what you are talking about.

well the short passing game is always the counter to the blitz.
so it is a race.
will the qb get the ball off faster or the guys shooting up the a-gap
michael downs and another db got a great result the first couple times but they were beaten when they did it too much.
it was not disguised well and they committed there and never shifted around.

obviously if the RB releases and gets the ball, he could see daylight on the weakside.

i would not be so quick to say the LT can nail the LB/S.
LTs sometime have trouble stopping a RDE.
jaylon and heath should both be faster and more agile than a RDE.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sidenote, it does need to be pointed out that we didn't draft a single LB this year.

If we were remotely actually thinking about a change to the 3-4, that wouldn't have happened and Rod would've been fired by now.

Oh there is zero chance of it happening. I think he is just doing it as a thought experiment and for attention.

 

[waldoputty]

Sidenote, it does need to be pointed out that we didn't draft a single LB this year.

If we were remotely actually thinking about a change to the 3-4, that wouldn't have happened and Rod would've been fired by now.

definitely agree with that.
if the defense bombs again, lets hope they see the light.
again, this is IF the 2017 bombs again.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

well the short passing game is always the counter to the blitz.
so it is a race.
will the qb get the ball off faster or the guys shooting up the a-gap
michael downs and another db got a great result the first couple times but they were beaten when they did it too much.
it was not disguised well and they committed there and never shifted around.

obviously if the RB releases and gets the ball, he could see daylight on the weakside.

i would not be so quick to say the LT can nail the LB/S.
LTs sometime have trouble stopping a RDE.
jaylon and heath should both be faster and more agile than a RDE.

You are setting yourself to fail against the short passing game. QBs routinely beat free rushers on screens and hot routes. You will get toasted. Never mind the QB is going to be able to scramble weakside with ease.

 

[waldoputty]

You are setting yourself to fail against the short passing game. QBs routinely beat free rushers on screens and hot routes. You will get toasted. Never mind the QB is going to be able to scramble weakside with ease.

first, the QB would almost have to be in shotgun to beat 1-2 a-gap passrushers
second, if it is 3 and long, a short pass is a scheme win.

i think our passrushers are faster than the qbs.
making brady scramble is a good thing.
probably also with the atlanta qb.

rodgers would be an issue
but i think the cowboys have surpassed the packers.

in fact, play the 3-4 like i suggested gets us 1 more pass defender in the zone against the short passing game - by finessing the LT/RG

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Oh there is zero chance of it happening. I think he is just doing it as a thought experiment and for attention.

Ok thats cool, I actually like the 3-4 but this year was the first time since 2008 that we haven't taken a LB. Pretty obvious sign to me we ain't doing it.

Always loved Emmitt's thought about it, he just loved to play against a 3-4. Its an interesting thought experiment, just takes too long when your actually good to make the change. Course we could just draft Bobby Carpenter again...him, Bobby's dad, and Bill are probably still smoking cigars to that one.

Good teams just don't make this change unless you have the Emperor.....and we don't, we got JG.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. You can have done that without calling someone out.

You're fat. It's not personal, it's business.

 

[YosemiteSam]

is being decent a good thing? Just wondering.

Absolutely! I like to think I'm a decent guy. Charitable (except to beggers), helping of those in need, supportive, everywhere except here. Here, I just like to bust balls and have fun. CBZ is my outlet for my immaturity.