Talkin Cowboys or The Break?

Philmonroe

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Can't speak to how she was before this year... admittedly, I couldn't stomach listening nor to give my time to podcasts for a team whose season was in the dumpster last year. So, I grant the benefit of a doubt that she could have been pretty bad before.

Beyond that, I can agree with most of your post, ldgit.
No offense but if you can't speak about how she was her whole time how did you come in here guns a blazing the other day to defend her? This is exactly the defending of women that I was talking about the other day. On issues like this where women aren't in harms way or even here to care they don't need your help. Its even worse when you then say you haven't even listened to see if there was growth or not. I just want people to treat people similar on issue like this where its no way man/woman can't be judged, defended, the same.
 

_sturt_

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Please explain why it's necessary for me to assess her work based on what she did last year. How is what she did or didn't contribute last year relevant to an assessment of her job performance on the show this year. Pursuing the point... curious... is that how your own job works? Are the people you have to satisfy in order to have a good assessment making judgments about your performance based on how you did last year? (I wasn't aware that there are jobs like that out there, but maybe so.)

I'm happy to grant you that maybe she was pretty lousy before... and, to your point, that maybe she took cues from Broaddus. Fine by me. I don't let my ego disallow me from being transparent in my ignorance... and I think that's a good trait to have, so I embrace it. But I'm not ignorant about this season, and what I've heard. Again, for the role she's prescribed to fill, she's solid. I stand by that.

That you would consider my perspective "guns a-blazin" when I've empirically included sentences that attempt balance is its own commentary on your own perspective... and your own tendency to judge a person differently based on femaleness or maleness (aka, sexist). "Me thinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind.
 

Idgit

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Sir, I'm gonna need you to calm down.

I feel like I'm the only guy who's seen truly ugly women in this thread. There's a whole world of really unfortunate appearances out there just waiting to scare the **** out of you when you're not expecting it.

Some guys suck at doing averages, apparently. And no, it's not a personal taste thing.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Let's be careful with the direction of the thread here, guys. There's not reason for a thread like this to even skirt the edges of a political debate.

As for the sexism talk, it's obvious to me that they want at least one female in a prominent position in the team media department, and the reason for it is they're conscious of growing the audience for the sport and girls and women are a fairly dramatically underrepresented demo in the NFL. Hence the networks having more female sideline reporters, the breast cancer awareness campaigns, the strong (and appropriate) stand against domestic violence. The Cowboys media team has made a point of having a woman involved in their shows for years now, ostensibly for the same reasons.

Some of those women are absolutely on-point with their football knowledge. It's great. Taylor Stern was not in that boat. She was flat out awful at the start. And while there's no proving she was fed lines, it didn't take much horsepower to hear Broaddus ask an obviously scripted question with that hint condescension (that means 'talking down to stupid people'), her fumbling through papers and stuttering, and then reading a reply that had the sorts of grammar tells and pronoun reference errors that made it obvious she didn't really understand what she was saying. They clearly groomed her for the role in a way they've never had to groom a male contributor (in my memory, at least). To her credit, a year and a half later she was on top of her screws. She even references moderately-obscure NFL games from way before her time now, and can chip in re: some college players and college football history. It's pretty impressive. It's also pretty clear she's good at getting access to players and not shy about digging around for tidbits.

I believe she was a go-getter that was willing to take a low-paying but prominent position and grow into it. She's gone from really bad to 'not good, but tolerable' in a fairly short amount of time. And she's gotten more comfortable on camera. I got nothing against her other than I think her presence somehow makes Broaddus a little bit creepier, but that's not really fair to put on her.

And anybody who thinks she's of average attractiveness clearly hasn't seen a statistically relevant number of human females, by the way. She's not a stunner, but she's far from average, even accounting for the fact that there's no accounting for taste.

She is hardly the only one to get scripted questions. And you are indicting her because Broaddus is a condescending *** when asking?

That is kinda my entire point. All of the questions and topics on these shows are prepared. The fan questions are screened. If anything Broaddus is the one doing it wrong by making his teammate look bad talking to her like she's and idiot. Yet she is the only one that gets hammered for it.

As for how she looks? That is another frank example of gender bias. Broaddus, Mickey, Nate, Nick, and Rob are not remotely male model material. Very few people and nobody here cares one whit in relevance to their job. And then these same brains complain when a woman takes an hour to get made up and ready to go.

She isn't going to date any of us so I do not see the point.
 

BAZ

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I feel like I'm the only guy who's seen truly ugly women in this thread. There's a whole world of really unfortunate appearances out there just waiting to scare the **** out of you when you're not expecting it.

Some guys suck at doing averages, apparently. And no, it's not a personal taste thing.
The girl is no where near offensive on the eye but to call her far from average is pushing it. Shes fine, grand even.


Edit: I just realised fine has a slang use where you come from. Ignore that.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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The girl is no where near offensive on the eye but to call her far from average is pushing it. Shes fine, grand even.

Well she is too short to be a model. She has a nice chin and cheekbones. Large mouth small eyes.

I think the main things is she has a bit of junk in her trunk and that is a polarizing issue for men.

None of that has any bearing on her ability to talk about football beyond people who judge a woman in everything on the basis of how she looks first and foremost.
 

Zordon

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The guy who can't accept people's idea of beauty isn't yours, talk about attitude. You won't let this die. Her face, hair, eyes, nose, body isn't attractive to me. A V E R A G E.
I never knew you lived in SoCal. :yourock:
 

BAZ

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None of that has any bearing on her ability to talk about football beyond people who judge a woman in everything on the basis of how she looks first and foremost.

Right and your point on this is?
 

Idgit

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She is hardly the only one to get scripted questions. And you are indicting her because Broaddus is a condescending *** when asking?

That is kinda my entire point. All of the questions and topics on these shows are prepared. The fan questions are screened. If anything Broaddus is the one doing it wrong by making his teammate look bad talking to her like she's and idiot. Yet she is the only one that gets hammered for it.

As for how she looks? That is another frank example of gender bias. Broaddus, Mickey, Nate, Nick, and Rob are not remotely male model material. Very few people and nobody here cares one whit in relevance to their job. And then these same brains complain when a woman takes an hour to get made up and ready to go.

She isn't going to date any of us so I do not see the point.

I specifically didn't indict her for Broaddus' poor performance. I pointed out her early ignorance because it was relevant to her ability to do the job she was hired for. If they ever had a male on the show (other than in a producer role) who knew as little as Stern did, I don't remember it. Some of them have not been Cowboys fans, but that's as far as it's gone that I can remember. And while all shows like these are scripted to an extent, that's not the same thing as planting takes for her to parrot and then signaling her when to do it. I believe she was hired to talk football because of her gender and work ethic, then she learned about football. That's ok, if a bit unfortunate. She did come up to speed quickly. I personally liked several of her female predecessors much better than I like Taylor, but I've got nothing personal against Taylor.

Broaddus has his own issues. I didn't mean to suggest he doesn't.

As for her looks, you're right it's got zero to do with her ability to do her job. I went there only because some men have a really distorted view of female beauty and that was worth calling some attention to. I don't consider it gender bias for a predominantly male group in a sports chat to reference the appearance of an under qualified female as a factor in the job she does when that job is in front of the camera. Its not a gender debate. It's a what-substitute-qualification-do-you-have-for-being-in-front-of-a-camera debate. The male personalities you named all had domain experience qualifications. As do several of Taylor's female predecessors.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I specifically didn't indict her for Broaddus' poor performance. I pointed out her early ignorance because it was relevant to her ability to do the job she was hired for. If they ever had a male on the show (other than in a producer role) who knew as little as Stern did, I don't remember it. Some of them have not been Cowboys fans, but that's as far as it's gone that I can remember. And while all shows like these are scripted to an extent, that's not the same thing as planting takes for her to parrot and then signaling her when to do it. I believe she was hired to talk football because of her gender and work ethic, then she learned about football. That's ok, if a bit unfortunate. She did come up to speed quickly. I personally liked several of her female predecessors much better than I like Taylor, but I've got nothing personal against Taylor.

Broaddus has his own issues. I didn't mean to suggest he doesn't.

As for her looks, you're right it's got zero to do with her ability to do her job. I went there only because some men have a really distorted view of female beauty and that was worth calling some attention to. I don't consider it gender bias for a predominantly male group in a sports chat to reference the appearance of an under qualified female as a factor in the job she does when that job is in front of the camera. Its not a gender debate. It's a what-substitute-qualification-do-you-have-for-being-in-front-of-a-camera debate. The male personalities you named all had domain experience qualifications. As do several of Taylor's female predecessors.

You have gone from it being a scripted question to her being spoonfed the answer. That is not the same thing and a stretch. Do you have any proof of it? I think the notion that they don't all prepare for the scripted questions to be specious. In fact, you can hear all the men talk about how they have their notes and are ready to go at the beginning of quite a few shows.

But the accusation here is specific and not necessarily applicable to you. She is being accused of Broaddus feeding her answers. This speaks to what I am saying as well. Helman on the draft show admits that he watches film with Brugler and Broaddus in preparation. Where are the accusations of him being spoon fed his takes? Is it because he is Broaddus' ghost writer?

She was a reporter for the Big Ten before coming to DC.com. Maybe she needed to learn the NFL but she was hardly a neophyte to the game.
 

Idgit

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You have gone from it being a scripted question to her being spoonfed the answer. That is not the same thing and a stretch. Do you have any proof of it? I think the notion that they don't all prepare for the scripted questions to be specious. In fact, you can hear all the men talk about how they have their notes and are ready to go at the beginning of quite a few shows.

But the accusation here is specific and not necessarily applicable to you. She is being accused of Broaddus feeding her answers. This speaks to what I am saying as well. Helman on the draft show admits that he watches film with Brugler and Broaddus in preparation. Where are the accusations of him being spoon fed his takes? Is it because he is Broaddus' ghost writer?

She was a reporter for the Big Ten before coming to DC.com. Maybe she needed to learn the NFL but she was hardly a neophyte to the game.

Of course there's no proof. It's not reasonable to expect there to be proof of something like that. It's merely my conclusion I came to after listening to the show, but thats what I base my appraisal of her early work on, just like I do with all their on-air personalities.

The fact that all of them learn from the more experienced members of the team isn't relevant. If Broaddus were triggering Helman's takes and Helman awkwardly reading his thoughts from his prep notes with the same read-cadence Stern used to use, we'd draw the same conclusion, but he didn't, so we don't.

And note that this is all stuff I'm saying Stern did early on that she no longer relies on. I give her credit for coming up to speed on it. I didn't realize she reported on the Big 10 before joining the Cowboys. It would be interesting to hear some of that work, because I can't imagine her having a relevant prior gig as green as she was. I'll look for some examples.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Of course there's no proof. It's not reasonable to expect there to be proof of something like that. It's merely my conclusion I came to after listening to the show, but thats what I base my appraisal of her early work on, just like I do with all their on-air personalities.

The fact that all of them learn from the more experienced members of the team isn't relevant. If Broaddus were triggering Helman's takes and Helman awkwardly reading his thoughts from his prep notes with the same read-cadence Stern used to use, we'd draw the same conclusion, but he didn't, so we don't.

And note that this is all stuff I'm saying Stern did early on that she no longer relies on. I give her credit for coming up to speed on it. I didn't realize she reported on the Big 10 before joining the Cowboys. It would be interesting to hear some of that work, because I can't imagine her having a relevant prior gig as green as she was. I'll look for some examples.

So you don't have proof. And absent of any proof you think it's rational (and reasonable) to pull a conclusion out of thin air (i.e. her being "fed" questions).

#comedy

*Your whole world must be rocked right now because fuzzy is going in on you.
 
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Idgit

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So you don't have proof.

And absent of any proof, the logical conclusion in your mind is to assume she's being fed questions.

*Your whole world must be rocked right now because fuzzy is going in on you.

#comedy.

Like most of us, I believe some things to be likely anecdotally that I understand I can't prove, Pomona. Not exactly rocket surgery.

And Fuzzy and I can respectfully disagree on any topic. Don't think the fact that I can acknowledge he generally owns you outright when you engage with him means he and I agree on every topic. I probably don't agree with any poster on every topic. I do respect the thought he puts into his posts, though.
 

CT Dal Fan

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I really would feel sorry for Taylor herself if she were to somehow come across this thread. Poor girl.
 
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