Tanking Doesn't Work!

[Proof]

I doubt that any of these teams tanked. They most likely had the #1 pick because they were genuinely the worst team. That, in and of itself would be a good reason none of them went from worst to first in one year. I don't condone it, but "tanking" implies being better than your record, in which case, you'd have a much better chance of jumping up to first the following year.

right exactly. And the one example that somewhat resembles our situation (suck for Luck) he wants to throw out lmao

 

[Carson]

My issue is with fans that are rooting for us to lose.

I would never root to lose a game ... ever.

I think reality this year is it’s going to happen. So the frustration is no longer lasting until Wednesday or Thursday. It’s about improving and getting better

 

[garyo1954]

If talking tanking intentionally for one specific year I recall the Suck for Luck campaign.

The alignment sucks. It was neat until posted. I understand that, and there is nothing I can do to make the proper columns. So let me help......

Year Draft Pos Team School Prior Next Change Finished
2000 Courtney Brown DE Cleveland Browns Penn St 2-14 3-13 1 6

The year is 2000, the #1 pick is Courtney Brown, He's a DE, drafted by the Cleveland Browns, from Penn St, the year prior the Browns finished 2-14, the year they drafted him they finished 3-13, they improved by 1 game, and finished 6th in their division.

So all it is is the first pick, position, who picked him, school, record before he was drafted, record after he was drafted, how much improvement, and where they finished in their division.

If the argument is that we're not as bad as some of those teams, I'd agree. But even in the case of Luck (much like Dak) he was drafted with players in place (much like Dak). Even then, his first year he lost in the Wild Card, second year he lost in the Division Game, and third year he lost in the Conference game.

Getting the consensus best player in the draft does not ensure you are going to the play-offs, that you're going to improve, or even that you are getting out of the basement. Overall these numbers say, "high draft choices do not on the whole provide enough on field performance to be worthy of tanking."

 

[Ranching]

I would never root to lose a game ... ever.

I think reality this year is it’s going to happen. So the frustration is no longer lasting until Wednesday or Thursday. It’s about improving and getting better

Too be clear, we're tou hoping we would hold on and beat Pittsburgh? Because some guys here were openly hoping we would lose.

 

[75boyz]

Huh?
Is this your response of all the examples I used from losing and consequentially drafting high that benefitted teams?

You left it at the one Luck scenario because it was similar?

I mean...

Okay then, my bad I guess. Lol

 

[Crazed Liotta Eyes]

The idea of going "worst to first" has ingrained itself. A team might go "worst to first" in their division but that doesn't equate to having the #1 pick.

Have a look at the last 21 years of Teams with the number 1 pick and where they ended up the following year. Most teams showed some improvement (there were no Texans in 2001 so there is nothing to improve on). Two teams the Rams and the Browns took a step back. All in all the average improvement for a team with the #1 pick is just 3.9 games. And 12 of the teams that picked #1 finished 4th in their Division the following year, two others finished 3rd. Only 4 teams in the past 21 years made the play-offs, and were out after the Wild Card game.

Year Draft Pos Team School Prior Next Change Finished
2000 Courtney Brown DE Cleveland Browns Penn St 2-14 3-13 1 6
2001 Michael Vick QB Atlanta Falcons Va.Tech 4-12 7-9 3 4
2002 David Carr QB Houston Texans Fresno St 0-0 4-12 0 4
2003 Carson Palmer QB Cincinnati Bengals USC 2-14 8-8 6 2
2004 Phillip Rivers QB San Diego Chargers NC St. 4-12 12-4 8 lost WC*
2005 Alex Smith QB San Francisco 49ers Utah 2-14 4-12 2 4
2006 Mario Williams DE Houston Texans NC St. 2-14 6-10 4 4
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB Oakland Raiders LSU 2-14 4-12 2 4
2008 Jake Long T Miami Dolphins Michigan 1-15 11-5 10 lost WC
2009 Matthew Stafford QB Detroit Lions Georgia 0-16 2-14 2 4
2010 Sam Bradford QB St. Lois Rams Oklahoma 1-15 7-9 6 2
2011 Cam Newton QB Carolina Panthers Auburn 2 -14 6-10 4 3
2012 Andrew Luck QB Indianapolis Colts Stanford 2-14 11-5 9 lost WC
2013 Eric Fisher T KC Chiefs Central Michigan 2-14 11-5 9 lost WC
2014 Jadevon Clowney DE Houston Texans South Carolina 2-14 9-7 7 2
2015 Jameis Winston QB Tampa Bay Bucs Florida St. 2-14 6-10 4 4
2016 Jared Goff QB Los Angeles Rams California 7-9 4-12 -3 3
2017 Myles Garrett DE Cleveland Browns Texas A&M 0-16 7-8-1 7 4
2018 Baker Mayfield QB Cleveland Browns Oklahoma 7-8-1 6-10 -1 4
2019 Kyler Murray QB Arizona Cardinals. Oklahoma 3-13 5-10-1 2 4
2020 Joe Burrow QB Cincinnati Bengals LSU 2-14 2-5-1 0 4

Of the 15 QBs taken #1 overall only 2, Luck and Rivers) made it to the play-offs their first year.
The Other two play-off teams took T (Fisher and Long).

Still think Tanking is for you?

* A note about Rivers. The Chargers drafted Eli Manning but swapped picks with the Giants.
​

Pretty cool to see it listed out this way. It's kind of shocking to see all the failures on there, especially the QBs. It kind of shows that one draft pick doesn't make the team.

 

[garyo1954]

Huh?
Is this your response of all the examples I used from losing and consequentially drafting high that benefitted teams?

You left it at the one Luck scenario because it was similar?

I mean...

Okay then, my bad I guess. Lol

Yep. Guess that's my answer. Vermeil left the Rams before 2000 so none of that applies.
And the Lions only have one #1 pick (Stafford). The Browns records are there every year they picked #1.

So I don't know what you're getting at. This only deals with #1 draft choices since 2000, how the team finished before that draft, how it finished after that draft, the improvement, and where they finished. I welcomed anyone who wanted to to do the same for any draft round they chose.

I don't know how to help you here.

 

[kskboys]

I doubt that any of these teams tanked. They most likely had the #1 pick because they were genuinely the worst team. That, in and of itself would be a good reason none of them went from worst to first in one year. I don't condone it, but "tanking" implies being better than your record, in which case, you'd have a much better chance of jumping up to first the following year.

Mia just tanked by trading away good players. Working like a charm so far.

 

[Proof]

Yep. Guess that's my answer. Vermeil left the Rams before 2000 so none of that applies.
And the Lions only have one #1 pick (Stafford). The Browns records are there every year they picked #1.

So I don't know what you're getting at. This only deals with #1 draft choices since 2000, how the team finished before that draft, how it finished after that draft, the improvement, and where they finished. I welcomed anyone who wanted to to do the same for any draft round they chose.

I don't know how to help you here.

it’s just not really helpful or relevant in general. The entire premise is a straw man. Good thought I suppose and solid and thoughtful research...but as proof against something no one has said or is saying, and in circumstances not really comparable to ours

 

[kskboys]

MIA did NOT tank either.,.ugh they kept Fitz in the entire year and finished 3-3 won the last 2 games... if they were intending on tanking they would have started rosen all year once it looked like a lost season..

the browns were like what 3-45 over 3 seasons thats not tanking that just being historically bad and in full rebuild mode..

you had it right by saying its not thing and teams that finish in the top five are bad and many can find reasons where it went wrong, ours was Injuries, a few FAs didnt live up to expectations, and new coaching staff didnt have the right pieces and time to get the new schemes implemented..

we arent this bad if our starting 22 was actually played most games..

Dude, MIA completely gutted their roster for draft picks. Classic tanking. Your denial is very strange, this one is obvious.

 

[reddyuta]

Get better every week with the players you have.

we are not losing on purpose, we just suck.

 

[kskboys]

I doubt that any of these teams tanked. They most likely had the #1 pick because they were genuinely the worst team. That, in and of itself would be a good reason none of them went from worst to first in one year. I don't condone it, but "tanking" implies being better than your record, in which case, you'd have a much better chance of jumping up to first the following year.

Runny, how is gutting your roster not tanking?

 

[Carson]

Too be clear, we're tou hoping we would hold on and beat Pittsburgh? Because some guys here were openly hoping we would lose.

I wanted to win that and every game possible!

 

[Jfconrow]

You should probably look at what happens in 2-4 years not right away, unless it’s like a EKH going to the Chiefs or Dak to the Boys with a stacked Oline. Then if you get another solid draft the year after your heading in the right direction.

 

[Runwildboys]

Runny, how is gutting your roster not tanking?

If they're getting rid of their best players, how does that help them the following season? And if they're not getting rid of their best players, how is that tanking? I assume by your previous posts you're talking about Miami, and I honestly don't know anything about their situation, but it seems to me that in order to be tanking for the purpose of getting better, they'd need to either have their players intentionally lose, or bench their best players (Or fake injuries, or whatever) but retain those players for the next season.

 

[HungryLion]

We aren’t picking 1st. We’re picking 3-4.

Remember 2015? Banged up squad, lost starting QB. Ended up 4-12. Solid draft picking 4th and ended up 13-3 the next year and one play from the NFC Championship.

Good point.

thanks Dak

 

[5Stars]

The idea of going "worst to first" has ingrained itself. A team might go "worst to first" in their division but that doesn't equate to having the #1 pick.

Have a look at the last 21 years of Teams with the number 1 pick and where they ended up the following year. Most teams showed some improvement (there were no Texans in 2001 so there is nothing to improve on). Two teams the Rams and the Browns took a step back. All in all the average improvement for a team with the #1 pick is just 3.9 games. And 12 of the teams that picked #1 finished 4th in their Division the following year, two others finished 3rd. Only 4 teams in the past 21 years made the play-offs, and were out after the Wild Card game.

Year Draft Pos Team School Prior Next Change Finished
2000 Courtney Brown DE Cleveland Browns Penn St 2-14 3-13 1 6
2001 Michael Vick QB Atlanta Falcons Va.Tech 4-12 7-9 3 4
2002 David Carr QB Houston Texans Fresno St 0-0 4-12 0 4
2003 Carson Palmer QB Cincinnati Bengals USC 2-14 8-8 6 2
2004 Phillip Rivers QB San Diego Chargers NC St. 4-12 12-4 8 lost WC*
2005 Alex Smith QB San Francisco 49ers Utah 2-14 4-12 2 4
2006 Mario Williams DE Houston Texans NC St. 2-14 6-10 4 4
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB Oakland Raiders LSU 2-14 4-12 2 4
2008 Jake Long T Miami Dolphins Michigan 1-15 11-5 10 lost WC
2009 Matthew Stafford QB Detroit Lions Georgia 0-16 2-14 2 4
2010 Sam Bradford QB St. Lois Rams Oklahoma 1-15 7-9 6 2
2011 Cam Newton QB Carolina Panthers Auburn 2 -14 6-10 4 3
2012 Andrew Luck QB Indianapolis Colts Stanford 2-14 11-5 9 lost WC
2013 Eric Fisher T KC Chiefs Central Michigan 2-14 11-5 9 lost WC
2014 Jadevon Clowney DE Houston Texans South Carolina 2-14 9-7 7 2
2015 Jameis Winston QB Tampa Bay Bucs Florida St. 2-14 6-10 4 4
2016 Jared Goff QB Los Angeles Rams California 7-9 4-12 -3 3
2017 Myles Garrett DE Cleveland Browns Texas A&M 0-16 7-8-1 7 4
2018 Baker Mayfield QB Cleveland Browns Oklahoma 7-8-1 6-10 -1 4
2019 Kyler Murray QB Arizona Cardinals. Oklahoma 3-13 5-10-1 2 4
2020 Joe Burrow QB Cincinnati Bengals LSU 2-14 2-5-1 0 4

Of the 15 QBs taken #1 overall only 2, Luck and Rivers) made it to the play-offs their first year.
The Other two play-off teams took T (Fisher and Long).

Still think Tanking is for you?

* A note about Rivers. The Chargers drafted Eli Manning but swapped picks with the Giants.
​

Would you put all that into an algebra equation?

I thought Dak was the Cowboys QB? He could be good trade bait.

 

[kskboys]

If they're getting rid of their best players, how does that help them the following season? And if they're not getting rid of their best players, how is that tanking? I assume by your previous posts you're talking about Miami, and I honestly don't know anything about their situation, but it seems to me that in order to be tanking for the purpose of getting better, they'd need to either have their players intentionally lose, or bench their best players. (Or fake injuries, or whatever)

They traded away their best players, Runny. Got a host of draft picks for them. Tunsil, Stills, and Minkah. Got at least an extra 1 and 2 in the next draft.

Trading away your best players is tanking.

 

[Crazed Liotta Eyes]

we are not losing on purpose, we just suck.

Totally sums up the 2020 Cowboys. I'm not even sure it would be that different without the injuries. Maybe a little different..,

 

[JoeKing]

I'm not okay with losing on purpose but I'm fine with not trying to be the best team in the worst division. Who are you trying to fool? The winner of this division is going nowhere come playoff time. Playing for the best possible draft position in 2021 is what's best for the team at this point.