Tate's Catch v. Dez's Non-catch Catch

[KJJ]

And by rule it did not matter one bit.

Everything I pointed out mattered which is why the play was ruled the way it was and the league confirmed the ruling was correct.

 

[blindzebra]

Everything I pointed out mattered which is why the play was ruled the way it was and the league confirmed the ruling was correct.

Explain this which shows you are wrong.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

 

[slick325]

Seriously don't pay any attention to what he is saying about this rule, he is wrong!

In 2014 the catch rule was as follows:

A player catches the ball if that player A) Gets two feet down in bounds B) Has control of the ball C) Has time to or makes a move common to the game.

That is the catch process, period.

Now you have exceptions:

Item 1: Going to the ground - If a player goes to the ground in the process of making a catch, with or without contact with a defender, the player must maintain control through contact with the ground.

Now KJJ will have you believe this is all powerful, but I bolded the key part. What that means is if parts A-C are not met they must maintain control. Note that it in no way, shape, or form says met before going to the ground starts.

This leads to the following casebook play from the NFL casebook:

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

This is the part that KJJ will ignore because it shows he is wrong. Note how the process of the catch continued simultaneously with going to the ground and when all 3 parts were met, going to the ground became moot.

Before GB going to the ground had never been applied like it was that day. There was no rule basis to overturn the call on the field. It was ruled incorrectly either because of not knowing the rule (unlikely), misapplying the rule (possibly), or doing so deliberately (highly likely). I think deliberately is most likely for two reasons:

1. The party bus. TMZ broke the story during the summer and it resurfaced after the Detroit playoff game and Blandino was accused of favoring Dallas in the game because of the party bus. This point is strengthened by the Cobb catch before half time that bounced but was upheld on review.

2. The fact that we heard that the rule wasn't going to change, yet it was drastically changed, not coincidentally what was changed was what made the play in GB a catch.

Good breakdown of the letter of the rule itself. Although, I don't believe that Blandino intentionally or deliberately went against the Cowboys. I do think it was a catch and further there wasn't enough evidence to overturn the original ruling on the field. These officials have no clue how to apply the rule. There is no uniformity or continuity at all. They are all over the place with this rule. It needs to be changed or addressed this offseason once and for all.

Ironically enough, Dez had the same thing happen in Dallas against the Giants and that was ruled a catch and TD. Reaching out with the ball after taking three steps and switching hands to your dominant hand (Dez is left handed) in order to lunge for the goal line was clearly a move common to the game.

 

[LandryFan]

And by rule it did not matter one bit.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

This is apparently right out of the rule book. This sounds eerily similar to the Dez play. So on what basis was there indisputable evidence to overturn the call? I am well educated and fairly intelligent, but some of this stuff makes me feel dumber than dirt...

 

[KJJ]

Explain this which shows you are wrong.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

You're not only saying I'm wrong you're saying the league is wrong. I've already explained everything as has the league. You're just beating the same dead horse you've been beating the past several months.

 

[blindzebra]

You're not only saying I'm wrong you're saying the league is wrong. I've already explained everything as has the league. You're just beating the same dead horse you've been beating the past several months.

Way to deflect.

That is the official NFL casebook play that applies to the 2014 rules. It is how the going to the ground rule is supposed to be applied.

Seratore and Blandino did get it wrong and that case play proves it. Everything that has occurred since is BS and covering up that it was screwed up. There is no supporting that they got it correct because they didn't and the rules and case play says as much. You can have an opinion on if you think it was just a screw up or a premeditated act, but you have no leg to stand on saying they got it right.

 

[KJJ]

Way to deflect.

That is the official NFL casebook play that applies to the 2014 rules. It is how the going to the ground rule is supposed to be applied.

Seratore and Blandino did get it wrong and that case play proves it. Everything that has occurred since is BS and covering up that it was screwed up. There is no supporting that they got it correct because they didn't and the rules and case play says as much. You can have an opinion on if you think it was just a screw up or a premeditated act, but you have no leg to stand on saying they got it right.

Every single thing in that case play has to apply to Dez's play and it didn't. Only in your opinion did it apply.

 

[blindzebra]

Every single thing in that case play has to apply to Dez's play and it didn't. Only in your opinion did it apply.

What a load of crap.

Case play: Catch one foot down, contact going to ground, second foot down, brace and lunge. Catch Process B) A) C) going to the ground trumped by completing the catch process prior to hitting the ground.

Dez Play: Catch, two feet down, contact going to the ground,turn, step, brace and reach. Catch Process B) A) C) going to the ground trumped by catch process being completed prior to hitting the ground.

Your comment only proves conclusively you don't know a thing about rules, case plays and how they are applied. By your stupid explanation you'd need a case play for every single possible play that can ever occur on a football field.

The key to that case play is that going to the ground ends whenever the 3 part catch process is met.

Yes or no.

Did Dez get two feet down in bounds to complete part A?

Did Dez have control of the ball to complete part B?

Did Dez do anything during that sequence that wasn't part of the catch process to complete part C?

Even you can't lie about questions one and two, so let me preempt number 3.

Yes or no.

Is turning and stepping part of the catch process?

Is switching the ball from two hands to your dominant hand part of the catch process?

Is bracing and reaching the ball out part of the catch process?

To preempt the preempt dodge of all those things were falling.

Is there conclusive proof showing that the turn and step weren't an attempt to advance the ball to overturn?

Why if his body is falling toward his left side would Dez switch the ball to his left hand unless he was trying to advance the ball?

Is there conclusive proof that the brace and reach were not an attempt to advance the ball to overturn?

 

[KJJ]

What a load of crap.

Case play: Catch one foot down, contact going to ground, second foot down, brace and lunge. Catch Process B) A) C) going to the ground trumped by completing the catch process prior to hitting the ground.

Dez Play: Catch, two feet down, contact going to the ground,turn, step, brace and reach. Catch Process B) A) C) going to the ground trumped by catch process being completed prior to hitting the ground.

Your comment only proves conclusively you don't know a thing about rules, case plays and how they are applied. By your stupid explanation you'd need a case play for every single possible play that can ever occur on a football field.

The key to that case play is that going to the ground ends whenever the 3 part catch process is met.

Yes or no.

Did Dez get two feet down in bounds to complete part A?

Did Dez have control of the ball to complete part B?

Did Dez do anything during that sequence that wasn't part of the catch process to complete part C?

Even you can't lie about questions one and two, so let me preempt number 3.

Yes or no.

Is turning and stepping part of the catch process?

Is switching the ball from two hands to your dominant hand part of the catch process?

Is bracing and reaching the ball out part of the catch process?

To preempt the preempt dodge of all those things were falling.

Is there conclusive proof showing that the turn and step weren't an attempt to advance the ball to overturn?

Why if his body is falling toward his left side would Dez switch the ball to his left hand unless he was trying to advance the ball?

Is there conclusive proof that the brace and reach were not an attempt to advance the ball to overturn?

You're accusing me of not knowing anything about the rules but you continue to argue with the ruling that was confirmed by the league to be the correct call. LOL

 

[Kevinicus]

You're accusing me of not knowing anything about the rules but you continue to argue with the ruling that was confirmed by the league to be the correct call. LOL

The League said they weren't wrong, therefore they can't be wrong. Seems circular to me.

 

[KJJ]

The League said they weren't wrong, therefore they can't be wrong. Seems circular to me.

When the league confirms that a call is correct then it was the correct call by RULE. The league has admitted many times when the refs get a call wrong as has Blandino. On the fathom interference call on Benny Barnes in the SB the league admitted it was a bad call and a few months later adopted the incidental contact rule.

 

[Kevinicus]

When the league confirms that a call is correct then it was the correct call by RULE. The league has admitted many times when the refs get a call wrong as has Blandino. On the fathom interference call on Benny Barnes in the SB the league admitted it was a bad call and a few months later adopted the incidental contact rule.

The league admitted error before, therefore they will always admit error. Tsk tsk.

 

[KJJ]

The league admitted error before, therefore they will always admit error. Tsk tsk.

If there was an error made on the Dez play how could the league not admit the error when it happened during the playoffs and became one of the most scrutinized plays during the playoffs since the tuck rule? Everyone has seen the play over and over and it's been examined by every expert and all agree by RULE the final call was the correct call. No one likes the rule that's the biggest problem with it. They see Dez clearly catch the ball, take steps and lung and can't understand why it's not a catch despite the ball coming loose when it hit the ground.

It's a RULE and every fan, player and team has to live with it. We also have to live with the fact there's going to be judgement with all these calls and not everyone is going to see things the same exact way. There's not a single call that will satisfy everyone especially if the call goes against your team. FANS boo even the most obvious calls because they're bias. Had the same exact call went against the Packers do you think Cowboy FANS would be disputing the call pointing out how they got screwed? LOL Had it happened to the Packers it would have been a great call according to many here and we all know it.

 

[Zekeats]

You're one of those who doesn't understand what "going to the ground" infers. To be deemed "going to the ground" a receiver must be "going to the ground" during the process of making the catch and Tate was not. He didn't going to the ground until he was being tackled after he had already had the ball and took several steps.

And it is clear that your one of those who doesn't know what already having possession of the ball is. It is very clear he did not have possession as to why this is such an argued topic. It is also very clear that Dez did have possession which is why that too is always argued. Rules or not, clear cut rules or not there still is judgement involved in every call. Dez reaching for the end zone is a football move. Most saw it that way, simple minded didn't. You my friend are simple minded and no matter how you want to "interpret" a rule it still wan't a catch by Tate.

 

[KJJ]

And it is clear that your one of those who doesn't know what already having possession of the ball is. It is very clear he did not have possession as to why this is such an argued topic. It is also very clear that Dez did have possession which is why that too is always argued. Rules or not, clear cut rules or not there still is judgement involved in every call. Dez reaching for the end zone is a football move. Most saw it that way, simple minded didn't. You my friend are simple minded and no matter how you want to "interpret" a rule it still wan't a catch by Tate.

Tate didn't have possession in my opinion read my posts therefore the int should have stood and the call should have never been reversed. For Dez to have possession he had to hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground because he was "going to the ground." Some of you are like talking to a brick wall.

 

[blindzebra]

The League said they weren't wrong, therefore they can't be wrong. Seems circular to me.

I have posted this:

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

multiple times and that is from the NFL rules. It is cut and dry they got it wrong and everything they have said and done since has been a cover up because Blandino purposely screwed us to show he was not favoring us because of the party bus.

KJJ argument is like saying the Holocaust didn't happen because a **** leader said the Holocaust never happened. (I am not comparing us getting screwed as being equal to the Holocaust, just that someone that is guilty of something is not exactly going to tell the truth)

 

[blindzebra]

Tate didn't have possession in my opinion read my posts therefore the int should have stood and the call should have never been reversed. For Dez to have possession he had to hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground because he was "going to the ground." Some of you are like talking to a brick wall.

WRONG!
A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

 

[KJJ]

WRONG!
A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

Go tell the league they're wrong and you're right. LOL

 

[Nightman]

The original CJohnson ruling went against everything we ever knew as a catch and every controversial ruling that it has spawned is a direct result of Instant Replay and the lawyering up the rules of football.

They have been trying to put the crap back into the horse since that day.

 

[blindzebra]

Go tell the league they're wrong and you're right. LOL

Ah yes, the condescending reply when faced with the facts. Typical troll behavior.

Show me a rule change prior to 2015 that makes that NFL casebook play go away and makes what happened in GB correct by rule. FYI, saying that Blandino said so is not proof. He has given several contradictory answers to how the rule has been applied prior to this year so his word means squat. Show it in the rulebook where it says explicitly going to the ground trumps the catch process and give a casebook play describing such a play.

We all will eagerly await your response with said rule and case play support.