Tate's Catch v. Dez's Non-catch Catch

KJJ

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Ah yes, the condescending reply when faced with the facts. Typical troll behavior.

Show me a rule change prior to 2015 that makes that NFL casebook play go away and makes what happened in GB correct by rule. FYI, saying that Blandino said so is not proof. He has given several contradictory answers to how the rule has been applied prior to this year so his word means squat. Show it in the rulebook where it says explicitly going to the ground trumps the catch process and give a casebook play describing such a play.

We all will eagerly await your response with said rule and case play support.

Back with the troll talk again? Tried giving you a chance never again. The facts are Dez's play was ruled correctly by RULE. He was going to the ground therefore by RULE he must hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground and he didn't.
 

percyhoward

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You're misunderstanding the rule. Dez did everything you said the problem was he was "going to the ground" and that trumps control of the ball, a football move, elbow/knee touching the ground and everything else.
Wrong. The catch wasn't overturned because "going to the ground" makes the football move irrelevant. It was overturned because they actually said Dez did not make a football move.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-gresham-dez-bryant-catch-20150112-story.html
NFL Network's Rich Eisen then asked Blandino if he and officials considered Bryant's lunge for the end zone to be a "football move." “Yeah, absolutely," Blandino said. "We looked at that aspect of it and in order for it to be a football move, it’s got to be more obvious than that, reaching the ball out with both hands, extending it for the goal line."

If the football move didn't matter, then you have to explain why Blandino would be looking for one.
 

blindzebra

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Back with the troll talk again? Tried giving you a chance never again. The facts are Dez's play was ruled correctly by RULE. He was going to the ground therefore by RULE he must hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground and he didn't.

Just what I thought.

You can't justify it by rule, because there was not a rule in place to overturn it, so you go right back to it is because they said it is crap.

So once again for everyone's benefit.

Item one: Going to the Ground - When a player is going to the ground, with or without contact, in the process of catching a pass the player must maintain possession through contact with the ground.

The process of catching a pass is the key phrase as it refers you back to A) two feet in bounds B) control of the ball in one or two hands C) time to or make a move common to the game.

The rule as written says that the only time the player must maintain control is if they have not completed the 3 part process. It does not say a word about when that process needs to be done, just that in terms of a falling player it needs to be done to end the process.

The following casebook play illustrates it, and almost mirrors the Dez play in GB:

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

KJJ would like to come off as knowing what he is talking about but he can't. You see how I have given the rule, pointed out the wording, and supplied a case play that supports my argument. KJJ will tell you he is right because Blandino says so.
 

DandyDon52

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That slow mo video was good, and to me he caught it and stepped across the goal line at which point it is a TD.
he didnt lose the ball till after he was in endzone, and it was already a td.

That being said the catch rules do need to be simplified and cleared up.
 

Kevinicus

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Back with the troll talk again? Tried giving you a chance never again. The facts are Dez's play was ruled correctly by RULE. He was going to the ground therefore by RULE he must hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground and he didn't.

You continue to avoid the evidence because you can't make it fit with your argument. Your deflections are embarassing and trollish indeed.
 

KJJ

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Wrong. The catch wasn't overturned because "going to the ground" makes the football move irrelevant. It was overturned because they actually said Dez did not make a football move.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-gresham-dez-bryant-catch-20150112-story.html
NFL Network's Rich Eisen then asked Blandino if he and officials considered Bryant's lunge for the end zone to be a "football move." “Yeah, absolutely," Blandino said. "We looked at that aspect of it and in order for it to be a football move, it’s got to be more obvious than that, reaching the ball out with both hands, extending it for the goal line."

If the football move didn't matter, then you have to explain why Blandino would be looking for one.

"Going to the ground" makes everything irrelevant such as an elbow and knee touching the ground. The play was overturned because Dez was "going to the ground" and didn't hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground. Blandino has made several comments about the play and has remained consistent that Dez was "going to the ground" and the ball came loose when he contacted the ground therefore the final ruling was an incomplete pass.

I told you back in January the NFL would do away with the term "football move" because not even the league could explain exactly what a "football move" is to anyone's satisfaction. Not going to argue this any further we're just covering the same things we did months ago it's a complete waste of time. No one is going to change their mind on this play what everyone believed in January they will always believe.
 

Zekeats

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Tate didn't have possession in my opinion read my posts therefore the int should have stood and the call should have never been reversed. For Dez to have possession he had to hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground because he was "going to the ground." Some of you are like talking to a brick wall.

Not if he made a football move for 1k time. Reaching for the end zone is a football move! He made 10 times more of a move than Tate. Bottom line for the "simple minded" like yourself is that no matter what, clear cut rules or not, they still made a judgement call on the Dez, Calvin and Tate calls.
 

slick325

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percyhowardpost: 6351906 said:
Wrong. The catch wasn't overturned because "going to the ground" makes the football move irrelevant. It was overturned because they actually said Dez did not make a football move.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-gresham-dez-bryant-catch-20150112-story.html
NFL Network's Rich Eisen then asked Blandino if he and officials considered Bryant's lunge for the end zone to be a "football move." “Yeah, absolutely," Blandino said. "We looked at that aspect of it and in order for it to be a football move, it’s got to be more obvious than that, reaching the ball out with both hands, extending it for the goal line."

If the football move didn't matter, then you have to explain why Blandino would be looking for one.

Thank you Percy...geez...
 

percyhoward

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"Going to the ground" makes everything irrelevant such as an elbow and knee touching the ground. The play was overturned because Dez was "going to the ground" and didn't hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground. Blandino has made several comments about the play and has remained consistent that Dez was "going to the ground" and the ball came loose when he contacted the ground therefore the final ruling was an incomplete pass.

I told you back in January the NFL would do away with the term "football move" because not even the league could explain exactly what a "football move" is to anyone's satisfaction. Not going to argue this any further we're just covering the same things we did months ago it's a complete waste of time. No one is going to change their mind on this play what they believed in January they will always believe.
Again, you still haven't explained why Blandino would have been looking for a football move that had no effect on the play. The assumption is that you can't explain it.
 

KJJ

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You continue to avoid the evidence because you can't make it fit with your argument. Your deflections are embarassing and trollish indeed.

The evidence is on video and some of you remain in denial over it. Hard to make anything fit ones argument when there's conclusive visual evidence.
 

KJJ

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Not if he made a football move for 1k time. Reaching for the end zone is a football move! He made 10 times more of a move than Tate. Bottom line for the "simple minded" like yourself is that no matter what, clear cut rules or not, they still made a judgement call on the Dez, Calvin and Tate calls.

Not even the league knows what a "football move" is which is why the term has been removed from the rulebook. When a receiver is "going to the ground" they must hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground and nothing can trump that even Stephen Jones was quoted as saying that.
 

KJJ

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Again, you still haven't explained why Blandino would have been looking for a football move that had no effect on the play. The assumption is that you can't explain it.

No one can explain a "football move" not even Blandino which is why the league removed the term from the rulebook. The biggest mistake the league made was coming up with the term "football move" and "move common to the game." It was silly to come up with terms that confuse people and that couldn't be explained to anyone's satisfaction.
 

percyhoward

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No one can explain a "football move" not even Blandino which is why the league removed the term from the rulebook. The biggest mistake the league made was coming up with the term "football move" and "move common to the game." It's ridiculous to come up with a term that confuses people and can't be explained to anyone's satisfaction.
You're claiming that the league's top official looked for a football move without realizing that he didn't have to.
 

KJJ

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You're claiming that the league's top official looked for a football move without realizing that he didn't have to.

I didn't claim he was looking for a "football move." I saw him try to explain what a "football move" was and he couldn't so he steered away from it and focused on Dez going to the ground and the ball coming loose when it contacted the ground.
 

percyhoward

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I didn't claim he was looking for a "football move." I saw him try to explain what a "football move" was and he couldn't so he steered away from it and focused on Dez going to the ground and the ball coming loose when it contacted the ground.
To explain further, Blandino was asked whether Dez's reach could have been considered a football move, and he responded that they "absolutely looked at that aspect of it."

You say that going to the ground trumps the football move. But we know that can't be true, otherwise there would have been no reason for Blandino to look for a football move.
 

blindzebra

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To explain further, Blandino was asked whether Dez's reach could have been considered a football move, and he responded that they "absolutely looked at that aspect of it."

You say that going to the ground trumps the football move. But we know that can't be true, otherwise there would have been no reason for Blandino to look for a football move.

Don't bother Percy he is never going to admit he is wrong about anything.

He has been completely schooled in this thread yet keeps going...of course we will see him drop out and blindfaith and that chicago fan, that only posts in Dez catch threads, will pick up the nonsense.
 

KJJ

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Yeah, me and the league are being schooled by a FAN who calls himself blindzebra. :laugh:
 

KJJ

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It's not me who keeps going it's the gluttons for punishment who think they know it all that keep going and refuse to accept the ruling that was confirmed by the league to be the correct call.
 

Derinyar

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Its very simple at this point. A catch is what ever the NFL home office says it is after review. Don't apply logic or rule sets to it, because they altered the rule set to make it more ambiguous during the off season.

The biggest problem I can see is that Dean Blandino doesn't seem to understand how to read an if/or statement and the definition of the word indisputable, so to fix that he suggested a change that actually has more wiggle room in it.
 
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