Tell me about Mike Solari

[thunderpimp91]

yeah this is pretty much where i am, and why i hoped maybe someone had nuts and bolts details and eval. but probably not. i just don't think i'd ever heard a ringing endorsement of solari, or his units rankings. why it's easier to pin on him. but i also am not able to evaluate ol whatsoever, other than, superficially good or bad. and maybe i'm overrating the talent which is also definitely possible. and maybe it's as simple as a 'natural' position shuffle to cure some of what ails them. needs to get figured out though, and i just have a hard time believing a unit boasting a two first rd picks and a third rd (steal) in the past two drafts can naturally be THIS terrible. but yes, having a quality rb would probably help matters tremendously as well. it's such a chicken and egg things that i really hope gets sorted out. because man, it really sucks to have such a strength become the biggest liability while also pouring such resources in.

I think most are overrating the talent on this OL, especially the rookies. Both high potential guys, but potential gets mistaken for talent often and gets coaches fired often. I really think most underrated how tough it is for a guy like Beebe to transition to Center. I also think Guyton simply needs another year to get his body to an NFL level. To me he looks like he still needs to get stronger. Steele is probably better than we've seen this year, but hes not a fit at all for an offense that cant stick with a run game. To me that is more on the play caller than it is the OL coach. Tyler Smith is really the only plus talent have you have right now.

It really just isnt a simple answer as to why these guys struggle so much. At least in theory Solari should be the perfect guy for this unit. Hes a guy who has coached a variety of styles and schemes over the years. He coached under Harbaugh during the Keapernick years in SF. Pete Carrol and helped Seattle turn their run game around in 2018. Herm Edwards in KC when they ran the tires off of Larry Johnson in 2006. Hes familair with both McCarthy and Schottenheimer. Solari seems to be a bit of a chameleon that has adapted to the situation everywhere hes gone, although to varying levels of success. Power run teams, zone run teams, mobile QBs, etc. the guy has experience in it all. Maybe the game has just passed him by at this point, but the fundamentals of OL play dont change all that much.

 

[Doomsday]

The idea that the oline are issues are because we have 2 rookies starting doesn't hold water when you throw in the fact that both are playing better than Steele and Martin this season.

Obviously Martin is playing with a bunch of injuries, but that doesn't change the fact that he has been terrible.

I posted a thread with every Guyton snap, go watch that video and tell me the run blocking scheme isn't garbage. Some of the blocks Solari is having WRs and TEs try to execute are borderline impossible.

 

[fivetwos]

Someone, somewhere advised the two clowns to give Steele 5/82 when he was never all that great.

Zack Martin was bound to decline at some point.

Probably start there.

 

[RS12]

I have always thought Solari was much better with a very veteran line. Therefore a poor fit with the current group. You make the jump that this group is very talented, are they really?

Last year three all pros. One of them moved on and was replaced by Guyton. Best case the jury is still way out on Guyton at LT. Tyler Smith I still think is a rock and key piece going forward. Beebe I believe has a long term future here at C or G and will be high level. Zack has been injured two years in row and appears to be near the end. Steele is a turn style.

If Belichik is the next HC snd he gets Scarnecchia out of retirement to join him, there could be dramatic improvement. He was one of the best in the business.

 

[noshame]

He was a good coach way back in the day when defenses played mostly straight up 34 or 43, and did very little blitzing
He is too old and his system is outdated. He is a pet cat, part of the offensive group. They'd have been hired together and fired together for many years now. Usually with just 2 or 3 year stints.

 

[Blast From The Past]

I think most are overrating the talent on this OL, especially the rookies. Both high potential guys, but potential gets mistaken for talent often and gets coaches fired often. I really think most underrated how tough it is for a guy like Beebe to transition to Center. I also think Guyton simply needs another year to get his body to an NFL level. To me he looks like he still needs to get stronger. Steele is probably better than we've seen this year, but hes not a fit at all for an offense that cant stick with a run game. To me that is more on the play caller than it is the OL coach. Tyler Smith is really the only plus talent have you have right now.

It really just isnt a simple answer as to why these guys struggle so much. At least in theory Solari should be the perfect guy for this unit. Hes a guy who has coached a variety of styles and schemes over the years. He coached under Harbaugh during the Keapernick years in SF. Pete Carrol and helped Seattle turn their run game around in 2018. Herm Edwards in KC when they ran the tires off of Larry Johnson in 2006. Hes familair with both McCarthy and Schottenheimer. Solari seems to be a bit of a chameleon that has adapted to the situation everywhere hes gone, although to varying levels of success. Power run teams, zone run teams, mobile QBs, etc. the guy has experience in it all. Maybe the game has just passed him by at this point, but the fundamentals of OL play dont change all that much.

But did he ever change his scheme to fit what our guys collectively were a good fit for? I'm not sure he has. Remember when the last coach was let go on a by week and they brought in Marc Columbo? The blocking scheme was the one they were good at and familiar with and the blocking improved afterwards. Solari has pedigree but like Jerry Jones he is living off of his legacy I'm afraid. We all have a shelf life and maybe Solari should just retire. We need a new good oline coach to come to Dallas and get them boys right. Our run game either sucks because of our rb's or because the oline is playing in the wrong scheme for their talent. And two things can both be right.

 

[blueblood70]

But did he ever change his scheme to fit what our guys collectively were a good fit for? I'm not sure he has. Remember when the last coach was let go on a by week and they brought in Marc Columbo? The blocking scheme was the one they were good at and familiar with and the blocking improved afterwards. Solari has pedigree but like Jerry Jones he is living off of his legacy I'm afraid. We all have a shelf life and maybe Solari should just retire. We need a new good oline coach to come to Dallas and get them boys right. Our run game either sucks because of our rb's or because the oline is playing in the wrong scheme for their talent. And two things can both be right.

Come on guys we don't need to start post like this they're all going so it's just a matter of time we just gotta get through the rest of this year there hasn't been many bright spots anywhere on the coaching staff they're all to blame there's been some terrible play designs and scheming from top to bottom especially on offense and that starts with Mike McCarthy because he holds two jobs and I think he's one of the worst offensive coordinators in the league but you gotta go to the wide receiver groups who are the coaches them I mean they're running routes all close together they seem to be going off script too much this is supposed to be a timing offense and somehow it doesn't look like a timing offense they're just running all over the place running into each other running around each other it's just a lot of garbage kinda hard to pinpoint which garbage stinks more because it all stinks in my eyes there isn't really anything working on offense what bright spot from any group do you really see none 0 so I'm just gonna have to go back to Mike McCarthy being the head coach he's to blame for not demoting or firing or elevating a different coach including himself so he says he has all control this is on McCarthy he's gonna be gone very soon hopefully I mean if that doesn't happen I don't know how this place isn't burned down it might McCarthy stays the head coach here...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

OL is one area where I admittedly don't know much about. Even to someone like me though, it's evident that they are playing very poorly, despite having quite a bit of talent and pedigree.

Why is Solari here? What is his 'style'? Why does he suck? Why have we stuck with him etc.

Thanks

more than any position group, OL functions as one. where a RB, WR or DL or LB can make individual plays and have their play count, one failure along OL causes the whole thing to fail. 4 succeeding and one failing, is a failure of OL. of course where is the weak spot.

Right now, the OL IMHO is not very talented. Steele is done. his goose is cooked. he has zero lateral mobility and every DE is beating him with a quick move to the outside. he is slow to respond as he can't move his legs
Guyton is rookie, playing LT for the first time and is very very inexperienced. Martin is old and hurt. beebe is a rookie center, hanging in there, but making mistakes. and tyler is out there by himself.

this is not a very talented line right now. perhaps only to cowboys fans

 

[thunderpimp91]

The idea that the oline are issues are because we have 2 rookies starting doesn't hold water when you throw in the fact that both are playing better than Steele and Martin this season.

Obviously Martin is playing with a bunch of injuries, but that doesn't change the fact that he has been terrible.

I posted a thread with every Guyton snap, go watch that video and tell me the run blocking scheme isn't garbage. Some of the blocks Solari is having WRs and TEs try to execute are borderline impossible.

I'm just not sure that Guyton/Beebe are actually playing at a higher level than Steele Martin this year....at least when you look at the entirety of the season so far. Over the last couple games i would probably agree, although Guyton I continue to see just making rookie mistakes that are not getting cleaned up.

From the tape you provided yesterday

1:55 - really bad miss on the blitz for Guyton. To be fair that might be on Tyler Smith, but from my experience that should be the Tackle blocking inside out.
4:50 - Bad play overall including the design, but Guyton gets beat hard inside. He seems to get beat pretty consistently on these types of runs.
7-9:00 - Some good plays mixed in, he had a really nice pickup on a stunt in there, but seems to get beat multiple times outside. Not major issues if your QB gets the ball out on time, but not great reps either
11:25 - Lazy play by Guyton. Rolling pocket and he does a horrible job of moving his feet creating a massive gap backside A. Thats one that technically will go against Tyler Smith, but Guyton should have been there to help him out.
14:42 - Easy example of a guy that needs to get stronger still. This is the stuff that leaves me optimistic about the future he has a full NFL offseason could really help, but he just let a backup DL that is 50lbs lighter than him get underneath and launch Guyton out of his way.
15:30 - Fumbled snap, but Guyton gets beat bad on an inside swim move. He does this pretty regularly where he gets caught dipping his head when a DL starts outside and moves in. To his credit the next play he comes right back and wins against the same move.
15:30 - Not a horrible rep, but another example where he just needs to play stronger, gets pushed back with ease and its a good thing the QB got the ball out quick

Still early in his career and I'm optimistic on the jump from year 1 to year 2, but I'm still seeing a lot of red flags to monitor for Guyton.

 

[Hawkeye19]

The results speak for themselves. The OL is not playing well. Steele has regressed. Martin has regressed.

Beebe and Guyton get passes because they are rookies.

Smith has been our most consistent OL. He has been very solid.

IMO— this entire offense suffers from schematic issues and an overall inability to let your guys do what they do best and feature their strengths.

Why can’t any of our guys run decent routes? Why can’t we get any push in the running game? Why do we leave our worst pass protectors on islands to get exposed?

The whole offense sucks. Outside of maybe our TE coach— we need an entire offensive overhaul. One that is centered around a decent running attack.

 

[thunderpimp91]

But did he ever change his scheme to fit what our guys collectively were a good fit for? I'm not sure he has. Remember when the last coach was let go on a by week and they brought in Marc Columbo? The blocking scheme was the one they were good at and familiar with and the blocking improved afterwards. Solari has pedigree but like Jerry Jones he is living off of his legacy I'm afraid. We all have a shelf life and maybe Solari should just retire. We need a new good oline coach to come to Dallas and get them boys right. Our run game either sucks because of our rb's or because the oline is playing in the wrong scheme for their talent. And two things can both be right.

Maybe, maybe not, but what I would ask you is how much of it is really on the OL coach? Not that it matters too much because I think the writing is on the wall for the entire coaching staff, but I look at the run/pass splits and I see an OC/playcaller who isnt giving the OL much of a chance as there is no balance to the offense. The balance we are seeing trying to be created is with the short passing game and misdirection plays to Lamb/Turpin behind the LOS. To me this is an indication that the coaching staff doesnt have a ton of confidence in the talent level of its players so they resort to a lot of gadget plays.

I also think if we are going to say the OL is in the wrong scheme we need to identify what the right scheme would look like. Really this unit seems to be better set up to run power and gap play outside of Steele who has always been a very good zone run guy. Zach Martin used to be an elite zone guy, but he simply doesnt move as well in 2024. Unfortunately about 75% of our run plays are zone runs. Is that on the OL coach or is that on the OC for not installing more power run concepts, or the playcaller for not dialing up more power runs? Its anyones guess and why I think its simply too difficult to really point the finger at position coaches a lot of the time.

In the end I think you have an OL with two guys who we all want to see replaced in 2025, two guys that need to improve their game for 2025, and one consistent in Tyler Smith. That could partially be a coaching issue, but we need more talent regardless.

 

[Blast From The Past]

Maybe, maybe not, but what I would ask you is how much of it is really on the OL coach? Not that it matters too much because I think the writing is on the wall for the entire coaching staff, but I look at the run/pass splits and I see an OC/playcaller who isnt giving the OL much of a chance as there is no balance to the offense. The balance we are seeing trying to be created is with the short passing game and misdirection plays to Lamb/Turpin behind the LOS. To me this is an indication that the coaching staff doesnt have a ton of confidence in the talent level of its players so they resort to a lot of gadget plays.

I also think if we are going to say the OL is in the wrong scheme we need to identify what the right scheme would look like. Really this unit seems to be better set up to run power and gap play outside of Steele who has always been a very good zone run guy. Zach Martin used to be an elite zone guy, but he simply doesnt move as well in 2024. Unfortunately about 75% of our run plays are zone runs. Is that on the OL coach or is that on the OC for not installing more power run concepts, or the playcaller for not dialing up more power runs? Its anyones guess and why I think its simply too difficult to really point the finger at position coaches a lot of the time.

In the end I think you have an OL with two guys who we all want to see replaced in 2025, two guys that need to improve their game for 2025, and one consistent in Tyler Smith. That could partially be a coaching issue, but we need more talent regardless.

Agree with your counterpoint. In with the new and out with the old and let us see how we do under there tutelage. Need better linemen for sure. Solari may not be the problem but as fans we really don't know.

 

[Blast From The Past]

Come on guys we don't need to start post like this they're all going so it's just a matter of time we just gotta get through the rest of this year there hasn't been many bright spots anywhere on the coaching staff they're all to blame there's been some terrible play designs and scheming from top to bottom especially on offense and that starts with Mike McCarthy because he holds two jobs and I think he's one of the worst offensive coordinators in the league but you gotta go to the wide receiver groups who are the coaches them I mean they're running routes all close together they seem to be going off script too much this is supposed to be a timing offense and somehow it doesn't look like a timing offense they're just running all over the place running into each other running around each other it's just a lot of garbage kinda hard to pinpoint which garbage stinks more because it all stinks in my eyes there isn't really anything working on offense what bright spot from any group do you really see none 0 so I'm just gonna have to go back to Mike McCarthy being the head coach he's to blame for not demoting or firing or elevating a different coach including himself so he says he has all control this is on McCarthy he's gonna be gone very soon hopefully I mean if that doesn't happen I don't know how this place isn't burned down it might McCarthy stays the head coach here...

I won't single out Solari anymore because you make a lot of sense to me noggin. The whole mess goes to Jerry and Stephen with MM along for the ride. It's been bandied about and discussed to infinity on here. Hope things are gonna get better for all of us in the near future.

 

[Proof]

Maybe, maybe not, but what I would ask you is how much of it is really on the OL coach? Not that it matters too much because I think the writing is on the wall for the entire coaching staff, but I look at the run/pass splits and I see an OC/playcaller who isnt giving the OL much of a chance as there is no balance to the offense. The balance we are seeing trying to be created is with the short passing game and misdirection plays to Lamb/Turpin behind the LOS. To me this is an indication that the coaching staff doesnt have a ton of confidence in the talent level of its players so they resort to a lot of gadget plays.

I also think if we are going to say the OL is in the wrong scheme we need to identify what the right scheme would look like. Really this unit seems to be better set up to run power and gap play outside of Steele who has always been a very good zone run guy. Zach Martin used to be an elite zone guy, but he simply doesnt move as well in 2024. Unfortunately about 75% of our run plays are zone runs. Is that on the OL coach or is that on the OC for not installing more power run concepts, or the playcaller for not dialing up more power runs? Its anyones guess and why I think its simply too difficult to really point the finger at position coaches a lot of the time.

In the end I think you have an OL with two guys who we all want to see replaced in 2025, two guys that need to improve their game for 2025, and one consistent in Tyler Smith.

I think most are overrating the talent on this OL, especially the rookies. Both high potential guys, but potential gets mistaken for talent often and gets coaches fired often. I really think most underrated how tough it is for a guy like Beebe to transition to Center. I also think Guyton simply needs another year to get his body to an NFL level. To me he looks like he still needs to get stronger. Steele is probably better than we've seen this year, but hes not a fit at all for an offense that cant stick with a run game. To me that is more on the play caller than it is the OL coach. Tyler Smith is really the only plus talent have you have right now.

It really just isnt a simple answer as to why these guys struggle so much. At least in theory Solari should be the perfect guy for this unit. Hes a guy who has coached a variety of styles and schemes over the years. He coached under Harbaugh during the Keapernick years in SF. Pete Carrol and helped Seattle turn their run game around in 2018. Herm Edwards in KC when they ran the tires off of Larry Johnson in 2006. Hes familair with both McCarthy and Schottenheimer. Solari seems to be a bit of a chameleon that has adapted to the situation everywhere hes gone, although to varying levels of success. Power run teams, zone run teams, mobile QBs, etc. the guy has experience in it all. Maybe the game has just passed him by at this point, but the fundamentals of OL play dont change all that much.

That could partially be a coaching issue, but we need more talent regardless.

thanks. i think i was actually confusing solari's history with schottenheimers.

 

[beware_d-ware]

To me its the same endless argument we have year after year about the coaching staff. Fans are drawn to the idea of overhauling the coaches because its easier and quicker to do than to rebuild your roster, but ultimately the majority of NFL coaches are going to succeed when given talent and fail when that talent simply isnt up to par.

Bingo.

 

[RonWashington]

Our Oline Coach and WRs Coach both need to go.

The entire coaching staff