Texas Executes Leal Despite Objections

[joseephuss]

We held a murder accountable for his actions is what we did. I don't see that we lowered a standard he was given a fair trial he was given an attorney to represent him and a jury who came to a unanimous decision. That is more than what most will get in any country.

But how were agreements of the treaty upheld? That has to play into the equation seeing as that we signed it. If not, then tear it up, but understand that has repercussions.

 

[DFWJC]

And yet Texas is in the Top 16 States in national murder rates.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

With all of the large cities that are in Texas and only 16th? Not bad!

 

[DIAF]

Nobody is defending this guy, but rather raising questions about how his case was handled. And they do have some legitimate points. It just didn't matter in this case because he was obviously guilty of a horrible crime - but what if this happens again in a case that is far flimsier? If it were an american that stood accused on thin evidence in a foreign land, I'd want him to be afforded the same opportunity that should have been afforded to this guy.

 

[CowboyDan]

Nobody is defending this guy, but rather raising questions about how his case was handled. And they do have some legitimate points. It just didn't matter in this case because he was obviously guilty of a horrible crime - but what if this happens again in a case that is far flimsier? If it were an american that stood accused on thin evidence in a foreign land, I'd want him to be afforded the same opportunity that should have been afforded to this guy.

Spot on.

 

[Doomsday101]

And yet Texas is in the Top 16 States in national murder rates.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

By that chart the rate is going down with it's lowest in 2009 at 5.4 from a high of 7.7

 

[CowboyDan]

By that chart the rate is going down with it's lowest in 2009 at 5.4 from a high of 7.7

So has the National Average over the same time period.

Did you notice that all the States without the death penalty are marked in yellow? And did you notice that all but 1 of them are ranked better than TX?

 

[zrinkill]

Did you notice that all the States without the death penalty are marked in yellow? And did you notice that all but 1 of them are ranked better than TX?

Do you wanna know why?

 

[CowboyDan]

Do you wanna know why?

I think it would be extremely hard for me to guess what you'll say, so go ahead an enlighten the room, oh wise one.

 

[DIAF]

oh come on, death penalty objections have nothing to do with the glaring legal questions brought up by this case. All it's doing is going to derail a thread in to CLOSED territory

 

[Doomsday101]

But how were agreements of the treaty upheld? That has to play into the equation seeing as that we signed it. If not, then tear it up, but understand that has repercussions.

US withdraws from Vienna Convention protocol on access to diplomats: report





AFP, via Tribune de Geneve en ligne, Mar. 10, 2005 - WASHINGTON, March 10 (AFP) - The United States has withdrawn from the Optional Protocol to the Vienna Convention on Consular Rights, which they proposed in 1963 to allow foreigners the right to see their consular authorities when jailed abroad, The Washington Post said Thursday.


http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/nwo_us_withdraws_from_vienna_convention_protocol.html

 

[zrinkill]

I think it would be extremely hard for me to guess what you'll say, so go ahead an enlighten the room, oh wise one.

That is what I thought.

 

[Doomsday101]

So has the National Average over the same time period.

Did you notice that all the States without the death penalty are marked in yellow? And did you notice that all but 1 of them are ranked better than TX?

And that is their rights as states. in 1982 the people of Texas choose to reinstitute the death penalty. I don't think it is a cure all and I don't think doing away with it will magically make capital murder decrease in the state

 

[CowboyDan]

oh come on, death penalty objections have nothing to do with the glaring legal questions brought up by this case. All it's doing is going to derail a thread in to CLOSED territory

I agree but I disagree. I mean all that can be said has been said on both sides, and the conversation evolved with a few statements that lead it down this path. I figured it would be closed by now anyway.

 

[Dodger]

US withdraws from Vienna Convention protocol on access to diplomats: report





AFP, via Tribune de Geneve en ligne, Mar. 10, 2005 - WASHINGTON, March 10 (AFP) - The United States has withdrawn from the Optional Protocol to the Vienna Convention on Consular Rights, which they proposed in 1963 to allow foreigners the right to see their consular authorities when jailed abroad, The Washington Post said Thursday.


http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/nwo_us_withdraws_from_vienna_convention_protocol.html

Interesting...

In that case, why is Obama and others complaining that his execution violated U.S. treaty obligations?

 

[Doomsday101]

Interesting...

In that case, why is Obama and others complaining that his execution violated U.S. treaty obligations?

why does he do anything?

This is not the 1st time this issue has come up and the only reason Mexico does this is they are opposed to the death penalty. It has not worked before it did not work this time.

 

[zrinkill]

US withdraws from Vienna Convention protocol on access to diplomats: report





AFP, via Tribune de Geneve en ligne, Mar. 10, 2005 - WASHINGTON, March 10 (AFP) - The United States has withdrawn from the Optional Protocol to the Vienna Convention on Consular Rights, which they proposed in 1963 to allow foreigners the right to see their consular authorities when jailed abroad, The Washington Post said Thursday.


http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/nwo_us_withdraws_from_vienna_convention_protocol.html

Great post ......

 

[Dodger]

Great post ......

Yeah, that pretty much ended the debate.

 

[Stautner]

I don't care that the guy is dead now..actually I do care and think it is a good thing so that is one less rapist out there.

What I do care about is the reason "some" were objecting or wanting it delayed.



Basically the state law enforcement did not follow law.

Some may say so what...he deserved to die.
And before some person starts acting like this is defending his actions (as often happens when someone has a different take on this board), I is not a good thing to first not adhere to this law and then deny it later.

The reason being is pretty obvious for those that want to dig into it and want to consider the treaty/law in effect for US citizens in other countries that get arrested. Hard to rail on those countries breaking that law, when we do it ourselves.

And being that it is a treaty that we signed...

US Constitution
Article VI
Clause 2

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

I would like to see the evidence of that.

Exactly. BrAinPaiNt's comments are based on the assumption that Leal's defense was accurate in claiming the state didn't follow the law, but the reality is that just because they claimed it doesn't mean it is so. In fact, if they had a clear argument that the state didn't follow law then why wouldn't that point have already been decided either in the trial or upon appeal? Leads you to believe the claim was merely a last ditch desperatiion effort before the execution.

 

[joseephuss]

why does he do anything?

This is not the 1st time this issue has come up and the only reason Mexico does this is they are opposed to the death penalty. It has not worked before it did not work this time.

You do know that President Bush was also requesting a stay of the execution as well. Again this goes beyond this particular scumbags case.

 

[Stautner]

You do know that President Bush was also requesting a stay of the execution as well. Again this goes beyond this particular scumbags case.

I doubt either Bush or Obama was really opposed to the execution (I would be shocked if Bush was), but they have to play the diplomat to get along with other countries.