Thank You, Bill Parcells

[CF74]

Yeah, funny you point that out. The tough guy act didn't work for him. He thought he was Mr. Yankee bad-***. And yeah, he's responsible for a lot of what's on our roster. I'd be interested if someone could give me a breakdown of just who. I want to think it's more than 30%, but it's at least that much. However, I'd love a see a statistical, historical analysis of this.

New Jersey con man is a bit harsh, but I can see where you're coming from. He was a stubborn coach and thought that being stubborn meant being great.

That's not how the game works today. I don't like the way the younger generation changes about a lot of things, but you have to be savvy enough to know that if you want to be successful working with players that you have to adapt.

I don't think the tough guy thing was an act, I think he just got pissed off and reacted, old school.

Here's my guess as to who we have starting from the Parcells era:
Austin?
Barber
Carpenter
Colombo
Crayton
Gurode
Hamlin?
James
Kosier
Ladocieur
McBriar
Newman
Ratliff
Romo
Spears
Ware (50%)
Witten

Backups:
Bowen
Free
Hatcher
Hurd?
McQuistan
Procter?
Siiavii?
Watkins?

*? Denotes unsure if not from Wade Era*


The New Jersey Con Man thing is just another nickname for the tuna.

 

[DFWJC]

This mostly sums up the player origins....either pre-BP, BP (4 years) or WP (3 years)....

QB: Romo (BP) Kitna (WP), McGee (WP)
RB: F Jones (WP), Barber (BP) , Choice (WP)
OL: Davis (WP) Gurode, Kosier, Columbo, Adams all pre- BP, Free (WP), Brewster (WP), McQuistan (BP), Proctor (BP) Preston (WP), Holland (WP)Bright (WP)
TE: Witten (BP) Bennett (WP), Phillip (WP)
WR: Austin (BP?) Row W (WP), Crayton (BP) , Oglestree (WP). Johnson (WP) Hurd (BP)..is he still with us?
DL: Ratliff (BP), Spears (BP) Igor (WP) Hatcher (BP) Bowen (BP), Siavii (WP)
LB: Ware (BP), Spencer (WP), Brooking (WP), Carpenter (BP), James (BP) Butler (WP), Williams (WP) Williams (WP), Johnson (WP)
DB: Jenkins (WP, Newman (BP), Scandrick (WP), Sensabaugh (WP), K Hamlin (BP), M Hamlin (WP)
ST: McBriar (BP), Bueler (WP), Suisham,Wood, etc (WP), Ladouceur

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Actually, Payton was the guy that wanted Romo here. And when we were on the clock with the pick that we took Ware, Parcells wanted to draft Spears instead. Jerry went with the scouts and drafted Ware instead, because they believed Ware was a great talent, and we could get Spears with the other pick. Not that Parcells didn't tremendously help this team, but some players are here because of others.

you are missing the forest because of the trees. you sound as if you expect parcells to have known everything. but that's not the case for anyteam in the NFL. it takes leadership and know how to run a football team. that's what was lacking in the cowboys before he arrived. before parcells the coaches made recommendations on what players they wanted and scoutns didn't have as much a voice and jerry made the finals picks based on his assumptions. unless you have forgotten about the likes of goodrich, carter, carver and edwards.

parcells brought in a discipline. how to run a football team. how to evaluate talent. how to go through the draft process that Jerry had not had and maybe forgotten. lets not forget that at the time, ware was a small college player with a lot of question marks regarding his transition to the NFL. but we all now speak after the fact. there is also rumor that BP wanted Merriman instead of ware. we couldn't have missed with either one at the time (although Merriman has had injury issues over the past couple of years and that's not predictable).

also, coaches bring with them other coaches, to teach their way of doing things. so what payton knew romo....it was under parcells that romo got here and it was under his watch that romo developed. there was also a lot of rumor about jerry wanting bledsoe to start over romo and parcells wanted romo.

and I agree, most players are here because of others. parcells didn't do all the scouting. didn't watch all the films. didn't know everbody. it would be impossible. he put a TEAM in place to do all of those and trusted his team. he also made decisions in many aspects on a democratic basis.

obama, bush, clinton didn't do everything in the government. they put people in the cabinet and in charge of offices to run things and they trusted them to execute their vision. credit (or criticism) goes to the leader at the top who put them in place in the first place.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

+1.


Personally, I'm glas Parcells is gone. He is overrated as a coach, IMO. His record without Belichick on his staff speaks for itself. I also think his eye for talent is overrated.

Having said that, I think Parcells greatest quality is that he changes cultures. He demands respect from players. And he has this aura about him where players would run through walls for him.

I'm happy that he came when he did. The team desperately needed it. But I also took solace in that Seattle game as I knew it meant the end of the Parcells era.

come on now. it wasn't just parcells as a coach. but parcells as a football guy. yeah jerry is hte GM and until his death will remain the GM, but he was clueless on how to run a football team and put a sucessful football team together until parcells showed up (before that he had jimmy johnson). parcells changed the mentality of this team. rid them of bad characters. started a the process of truly evaluating and picking talent. pulling the team together and pulled in a lot of good coaches. as a head coach his philosophy left a lot to be desired, but you can't deny the positive impact he had on this team.

and the demand for respect and culture is only part of it.

also don't you think every organization has a scouting department to find talent? you think its coaches or GMs that make all the calls....give me a break.

plus take a look at every team in the NFL in the past 10 years. average of good teams hitting on talent is around 50%....wow about what we did. bad team are about 30%. good teams hit on their high draft picks more often than not and hit on a few in the lower rounds. that helps them make their teams into good ones. even the revered bilicheck isn't that great in draft picks.

and yes parcells never won anything without billicheck...and billicheck never won anything without brady. it takes good people on the team to make it and its very difficult to win in the NFL.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

brian broaddus was in the room and parcells wanted merriman. Stephen and jerry pulled bill aside and explain how he would never get to camp on time and would always be a problem on the business side because of his agents the poston brothers.

according to broaddus bill then wanted to go with ware like most did.

Why this keeps getting screwed up I dont know, but just to be clear, He wanted spears sure.to run the 3-4 in 05 we needed an end but parcells wanted to take merriman at 11.

and you cant blame bill for wanting spears at 20, he had great success with another end from lsu once upon a time named leonard marshall. When you have an end in a 2 gap 3-4 who is among the league leaders in sacks a couple of years like marshall was I am pretty sure you would want another one!!!

thank you. there is no denying that parcells liked spears. but he knew his bread and butter came from outside LBs rushing and causing havoc much like he had with GIants and Jets and in NE. but people use this is an excuse to bash parcells.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

and yes parcells never won anything without billicheck...and billicheck never won anything without brady.

Another argument that doesn't hold any water.

Brady hasn't won anything without Belichick. If Brady goes to another team and has success, or if Little Bill retires and Brady has success, then you can bring that up.

Also, Little Bill lost Brady the first game of the season, and still went 11-5.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The only negative I have against The Tuna is that he has such a strong and commanding precense that leadership among the players did not blossom because the players looked to him to provide it. The players were accountable to him. Wade has stepped back and made the players acountable to each other. And thanks to Brookings, Romo, James, and Ware seem to have stepped up as the leaders.

I disagree. if you are a leader, then you will rise to the top regardless. I think Parcells actually respects that. On his previous teams he had Phil Simms, Harry Carson, Bledsoe and a few others who were leaders. I think in the absence of leadership, he provided that and in the process showed some of them how to be one. in fact if wade woudl be a little more demanding on his players, we may have made greater strides. wade is laid back and it took the players a couple of years to learn to be leaders on the team and that evident from having TO on the team whose strong negative personality took over everything. Parcells never allowed that.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Once the word got out that Merriman was thinking of the Postons he was out of the discussion. I have heard from various sources that that word got out before the draft-but never really knew for sure. One must also remember that before ware tore it up at the combine he was a late first pick. Going to a small school and looking at a position change its not that surprising. Spears was from a big time program and was a natural 3-4 DE which we really needed if we wanted to switch to the 3-4. BP was worried some other team would go for spears before we could get to him.

thank you. everyone now is saying what a great pick ware. but at the time there was a lot of question marks. everyone said the potential is there, but there is also a big risk. everyone was questioning if he was a work out warrior or the real deal. at the time, merriman was a surer bet.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Parcells style is antiquated, and he never showed the ability to adjust. He wasn't able to evolve with the game.

There's a reason why his greatest successes came in the 1980's, and he had less and less success with each subsequent stop. He won two Super Bowls with the Giants. He lost a Super Bowl with the Patriots. He lost the AFC Championships with the Jets. And he wasn't even able to win a playoff game or division title in 4 years with Dallas.

If you watched the Cowboys games during his tenure, you saw him being loyal to a fault to his "guys". You saw the Cowboys get easily outcoached/outschemed week to week.

I'll never forget teams always spreading us out with multiple receivers, and us staying in the base 3-4.

Parcells is your typical 1980's NFL coach. Too old and too stubborn to adjust to todays pass crazy NFL.

well, we gave wade a few years to get his guys on the team and he had a nice base of talent to work with. parcells started with a heap of scraps. the reason he couldn't do much (like letting his LBs loose as he did with giants, patriots and jets) is because he didn't have the right personnel. didn't have the CBs, the safties and the OLB to pull it off. in 3 years parcells replaced 45+ players on the team and made them into winners. that's not easy

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah, funny you point that out. The tough guy act didn't work for him. He thought he was Mr. Yankee bad-***. And yeah, he's responsible for a lot of what's on our roster. I'd be interested if someone could give me a breakdown of just who. I want to think it's more than 30%, but it's at least that much. However, I'd love a see a statistical, historical analysis of this.

New Jersey con man is a bit harsh, but I can see where you're coming from. He was a stubborn coach and thought that being stubborn meant being great.

That's not how the game works today. I don't like the way the younger generation changes about a lot of things, but you have to be savvy enough to know that if you want to be successful working with players that you have to adapt.

I think in 3 years he replaced 45+ people on the roster. not an easy feat. players from his era that are critical to the success of this team

Austin
Ware
Romo
Witten
Rate
Spears
Newmann
James
(canty, now with NY)
Kosier (not drafted by him, but signed as a FA)
Groude to center (before he was a guard and sucked at it and he is prenial probwler at center now)
Barber


he made ellis into a probowler

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I love everything tha.tbill did....except for one thing, and thats running off A.Bryant.Now i know you dont disrespect the coach,fine him sit him for a few games but dont release they guy at the time Bryant was one of very few things going for the cowboys. When he got cut i knew it would come back on us. i know Bryant hasnt exactly done anything special, but look who hes playing with???GARBAGE!! No doubt in my mind Romo to Bryant woulda been one of the best QB to WR combos in the league. I still hate that decision to this day but all in all Bill Parcells made a world of difference here.

see I am just the opposite. no player is bigger than the team. (where did I hear that before). Bryant was trying to be bigger. he went to cleveland. then SF, was out a year and came to tampa and has had one good year and one average year. he was too much distraction at a time when we needed discipline and focus. I am glad he cut his arse. you never let inmates run the assylum. plus AB wasn't all that anyway.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I was glad Parcells was here I thought he was the right man at the right time for the Cowboys. Granted in the end we did not achive everything fans or Parcells wanted to accomplish but we are better off because Parcells was here. I have never had an issue giving Parcells credit for what he did to improve this team just as I have no issue giving Wade the credit for the things he has done to improve this team and hopefully he can get this team into a championship game

+10000

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Another argument that doesn't hold any water.

Brady hasn't won anything without Belichick. If Brady goes to another team and has success, or if Little Bill retires and Brady has success, then you can bring that up.

Also, Little Bill lost Brady the first game of the season, and still went 11-5.

and little bill didn't win it all did he? isn't that the original point that parcells never won anything without little bill? parcells went to the superbowl but lost, went to AFC championship, but lost...so he had some success, much like little bill without brady

 

[Maikeru-sama]

It's odd that people would bash Bill Parcells for "possibly" wanting Merriman over Ware.

During the run-up to that draft, many people thought Merriman was better and many thought Ware was better.

I cannot fault Bill Parcells if he indeed wanted Merriman over Ware.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

and little bill didn't win it all did he? isn't that the original point that parcells never won anything without little bill?

Yes, that is the original point. Bill Parcells is a .500 coach when Little Bill isn't on his staff.

parcells went to the superbowl but lost

With Little Bill on his staff.

, went to AFC championship, but lost...

With Little Bill on his staff.

so he had some success,

Parcells has never won a division title, or playoff game, without Bill Bellichick on his staff.


Meanwhile, Bill Bellichicks defensive game plan used to beat the Bills in the Super Bowl is in the Hall of Fame. Bill Bellichick has won many division titles, many playoff games, won three out of four Super Bowls, went 16-0 in the regular season.... without Bill Parcells.

And when he lost Tom Brady in 2007, he still coached his team to an 11-5 record.

 

[Doomsday101]

+10000

I have yet to figure out why 1 coach deserves credit and the other one does not? BP brought in some good players as had Wade. I think this team is much improved than the 2006 team and no doubt the 06 team was very improved from where they were when BP took over.

Around here it seems only 1 coach can get any credit.

 

[DFWJC]

I think in 3 years he replaced 45+ people on the roster. not an easy feat. players from his era that are critical to the success of this team

Austin
Ware
Romo
Witten
Rate
Spears
Newmann
James
(canty, now with NY)
Kosier (not drafted by him, but signed as a FA)
Groude to center (before he was a guard and sucked at it and he is prenial probwler at center now)
Barber


he made ellis into a probowler

That's a pretty good list. I do think if you get 4 seasons of drafts--especially early on with the high picks in every round in a loaded draft--you should have at least this many players contributing 5-6 years later. So Big Bill and staff did their part. It's probably a stretch to add Austin the WR in that mix--especially if a non_Parcells pickup Gurode is included. I'd pick one or the other but not both....kind of a have own cake and eat it it too thing. Austin developed under Phillip's group, imo.
Either way, your point is valid....the list is good.

 

[DFWJC]

I have yet to figure out why 1 coach deserves credit and the other one does not?

+1 seems obvious to me that they both have done their part

 

[Doomsday101]

+1 seems obvious to me that they both have done their part

They have as has Jerry and as has the scouting department. To bring a championship it takes an organization. Jerry took heat and rightfully so for many bad season and he has been a part of helping this team turn around and become competitive once again.

I really could careless of the agendas that so many seem to have those who like Jerry or dislike Jerry or Wade or BP to me it has always been about everyone doing their part to turn this around and now I think there is a real reason to be optimistic about the future and where this team is heading

Even from the get go with Landry it was not just him it was Tex and Gil Brandt together who helped build this team, it is never 1 person alone
.

 

[UVAwahoos]

BP is certainly the only reason this team is not a mediocre mess anymore. Jerry had plenty of years to get it done alone and he failed over and over and over again.

BP saved this franchise. One of the greatest coaches ever. Wish we had given me a director of operations job and kept his staff intact. We may have already won 1-2 Super Bowls if that had happened. Jerry took it back over and now we're all back to hoping that things work out.