The Battle for Center

[AbeBeta]

"Best I've seen him so far" re: Gurode

"The added weight has helped Johnson" re: Al

I wouldn't place any weight on 1st, 2nd, 3rd team right now -- Petitti is playing 3rd team and there is no way that Fabini has outplayed him.

It is even now -- but where Al has always had an edge is against actual defenses. We still haven't seen what Gurode can do when a team develops a defensive scheme to exploit his weaknesses in recognition.

 

[Doomsday101]

How's he "rotating centers" if Gurode stays with the first team? He's going to put Al on third string?

Gurode is working 1st team for now but that is subject to change. I would think both guys will get a good amount of snaps with the 1st unit this training camp. 1 thing I really hope we don't see is going back and forth in the reg season. I think it leads to too many bad center QB exchanges and we had enough of that last season.

 

[Doomsday101]

"Best I've seen him so far" re: Gurode

"The added weight has helped Johnson" re: Al

I wouldn't place any weight on 1st, 2nd, 3rd team right now -- Petitti is playing 3rd team and there is no way that Fabini has outplayed him.

It is even now -- but where Al has always had an edge is against actual defenses. We still haven't seen what Gurode can do when a team develops a defensive scheme to exploit his weaknesses in recognition.

True it is up to Gurode to show he finally gets it. I can honestly say this year I'm not pulling for any 1 particular guy on the OL, I want the guys who are doing the job I'm sick of excuses just do the job.

 

[The Realist]

True it is up to Gurode to show he finally gets it. I can honestly say this year I'm not pulling for any 1 particular guy on the OL, I want the guys who are doing the job I'm sick of excuses just do the job.

Dude you just said 3 different things about Gurode in 3 post.

1) 1st team now and staying there
2) 1st team for now but subject to change
3) C will rotate.

 

[Doomsday101]

Dude you just said 3 different things about Gurode in 3 post.

1) 1st team now and staying there
2) 1st team for now but subject to change
3) C will rotate.

Sorry I did not say he was staying there, I posted what BP said. As for my opinion I think both Gurode and Al will get oppertunities to play with the 1st unit this pre-season. As for rotation only thing I mentioned was I hope they don't rotate during the season because I think he leads to fumbled exchanges when you rotate centers in and out of the game. Unlike some around here I don't care who gets the job I want the best players out there who ever it is.

 

[The Realist]

Straight from today's press conference:

Read between the lines. Doesn't even know if he's a OC yet. Same mental issues as Tucker (at least we didn't use a 2 on Tucker). Where is TT now. BP said it best......Birds of a feather.

Besides his physical limitations and mental issues, Gurode can't figure out who to block in a 4-3. As long as it's a 320+ stationary target he's fine.

Please someone name one 3-4 team we play this year.

Pseudo OC battle to create competion and depth.

Unless you assume McQuistan is starting at LT and Boiman is really the number 2 SOLB.

 

[burmafrd]

being realistic one should admit that BP said they were neck and neck. Denying reality is never profitable.

 

[Doomsday101]

being realistic one should admit that BP said they were neck and neck. Denying reality is never profitable.

I guess we need to learn how to read between the lines.

 

[burmafrd]

BP usually does not signal that someone has a real shot at winning the job unless he means it.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Read between the lines. Doesn't even know if he's a OC yet. Same mental issues as Tucker (at least we didn't use a 2 on Tucker). Where is TT now. BP said it best......Birds of a feather.

Besides his physical limitations and mental issues, Gurode can't figure out who to block in a 4-3. As long as it's a 320+ stationary target he's fine.

Please someone name one 3-4 team we play this year.

Pseudo OC battle to create competion and depth.

Unless you assume McQuistan is starting at LT and Boiman is really the number 2 SOLB.

He says Gurode is better for 3-4 teams because Johnson isn't big and strong enough to handles the noses. Gurode is just as quick as Johnson, you don't think he can't handle 4 down linemen? The only reason why Johnson is playing the 4-3 teams is because he keeps his head in the game and can handle the smaller, quicker tackles in a 4-3 alignment. If Gurode gets his act together, he is the bigger, strong, better lineman. This isn't breaking news. This has been a topic of discussion many times. A lot of folks don't want to see Gurode leave because they're afraid someone is finally going to maximize that potential.

 

[MONT17]

Gurode is the better player... if he is having problems with making calls u teach him its called coaching and its still only football... and if he cant "learn" have your QB who has been in the system longer than anyone on the team call the blocking scheme!!! If Manning can do it why cay DREW?


But I think the mental game that Parcells refers to does not limit or may not even include making line calls... Mental mistakes cover a wide spectrum of mishaps from holding penalties to missed assignments... I would even put ALJ tipping the snap count as a MENTAL ERROR!!!


saying G cant make line calls comes from the 70s, an era filled with stereotypes!!!


as for ALJ... before he was hurt what did he do? ALJ only played like a week before he got hurt a cpl years ago... maybe this is the ALJ we would have saw week 2 of TC if he didnt get hurt... who knows?

 

[AbeBeta]

BP usually does not signal that someone has a real shot at winning the job unless he means it.

Yeah. Like when he said Daleroy Stewart was really showing something.

And then he got cut a few weeks later.

 

[AbeBeta]

True it is up to Gurode to show he finally gets it. I can honestly say this year I'm not pulling for any 1 particular guy on the OL, I want the guys who are doing the job I'm sick of excuses just do the job.

I don't care who wins it -- I do care that one guy wins it cleanly while the other performs very well.

However, knowing what Bill likes in a player, I gotta put my money on Johnson. But if Gurode can be a quality starter at center, I', happy to be wrong.

 

[diehard2294]

no battle at all Johson looks terrible at camp and has been getting manhandled,so much for the weight

 

[AbeBeta]

no battle at all Johson looks terrible at camp and has been getting manhandled,so much for the weight

if that is so, then why would Bill say they are "even" -- if what you are saying is right that would mean that Gurode should have a HUGE advantage.

 

[diehard2294]

if that is so, then why would Bill say they are "even" -- if what you are saying is right that would mean that Gurode should have a HUGE advantage.

well read into it what you may, Johnson has been pushed around by Ratliff/Stanley and Fergie in pass blocking drills,called for holding as well. so that's what I seen..

 

[AbeBeta]

well read into it what you may, Johnson has been pushed around by Ratliff/Stanley and Fergie in pass blocking drills,called for holding as well. so that's what I seen..

Just to be clear -- are you in Oxnard?

 

[baj1dallas]

I disagree -- Al was our starting center and Andre got a very small proportion of the snaps. He got almost zero after the Giants game fiasco.

I'm not in love with Al as our center - but he beat Andre out last year plain and simple.

I disagree that people wanted him to start for reasons other than his play. He was very consistent in pass protection. I'd rather have a guy who occasionally blows a run block but doesn't give up sacks. Now if Gurode can come in and play consistently and be at least an average pass blocker and a better run blocker than Johnson, then I'm all for him. But I'm not any more convinced he can do that than Parcells was last season.

 

[The Realist]

He says Gurode is better for 3-4 teams because Johnson isn't big and strong enough to handles the noses. Gurode is just as quick as Johnson, you don't think he can't handle 4 down linemen? The only reason why Johnson is playing the 4-3 teams is because he keeps his head in the game and can handle the smaller, quicker tackles in a 4-3 alignment. If Gurode gets his act together, he is the bigger, strong, better lineman. This isn't breaking news. This has been a topic of discussion many times. A lot of folks don't want to see Gurode leave because they're afraid someone is finally going to maximize that potential.

Gurode is just as quick as Johnson but Johnson can handle the smaller/quicker DT's in a 4-3 better?

Got it.

Sadly, that comment probably makes perfect sense to a lot of Gurode fans.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Let me get this right. BP wants Gurode to win the job, but doesn't think he can mentally handle it?

Scary thing is a couple people agreed with you.

I don't see what's so hard to believe about it. Coaches would always rather see the bigger, stronger, more physical player play.

But, as anyone who has played at any level knows, the best physical specimens don't always start. Sometimes they're not smart enough, sometimes they're lazy, sometimes they lose concentration, sometimes they just don't have the instincts or feel for the game. And when that happens too often, the coach can't play them -- as has been the case with Gurode so far.

What's so outlandish about that?

And before you call me a Gurode fan, I've thought Johnson would win this competition all along. I'm of the opinion that players who make mental errors don't suddenly figure it out five years into their careers. But I guess Parcells is giving Andre one more shot in hopes that the more physical player does all of a sudden get it.