The Best Player Available Myth

[Hawkeye0202]

If we followed your advice, we'd have Chaisson.

Do you really wanna trade 1 sack and 8 tackles for CeeDee?

/thread

Exactly, you don't pass on Lamb.....especially considering the options like you pointed out.

 

[atlantacowboy]

What team can truly take the highest ranked player on their draft board regardless of needs?

The Dallas Cowboys had the #1 offense and #2 passing offense in 2019 and didn't lose a WR in FA. Add to this they used the #1 pick on a WR in 2019. And they renewed him for a top 5 WR contract.

This is not against CeeDee Lamb, he's a fine player and a find at 17 but why didn't he get picked earlier? Some teams had him as the #1 WR in that draft, ahead of Jeudy and Ruggs. Why didn't they take him?

The Cowboys lose their best DB and DL and have an injury prone LB and another with a neck issue, not a good issue for a LB.

Some wonder why this team continues to struggle but consider the % of the cap that goes to the offense, they spent the 1st pick on a WR, they hired an offensive HC who made a questionable DC hire. Would you feel 2nd class to be on this defense?

Management continues to treat the defense like a red headed stepchild and then wonders why it is such a problem.

The answer to the question I pose is none. No team can afford to ignore needs and all teams have more than one draft board and few use the main board.

Now, had you been constructing the needs position board for the Cowboys in this last draft, where would WR have fallen? Was that position even on your needs list going in? It wasn't on mine.

. It is not an argument against Lamb or even the value of the pick at #17. It has nothing to do with why he wasn't picked ahead of Jeudy and Ruggs. The point is that MOST teams will draft the BPA at positions of need only. We should have taken WR off the board in round 1......unless there was some kind of plan to flip the player into more draft picks.

And its not like we have to narrow the draft focus so much that we risked losing out on value. Our needs included just about every position other than WR and RB.

 

[Crazed Liotta Eyes]

This is the pick that set the D back .....you had a DWare, Vonn Miller type player ( JT Watt ) right in your hands and pass. But even worst, the player you chose instead was off the team after only 3 years. That hurts on BOTH ends......

Passing on Watt was really a killer. I know the arguments about the scheme fit and all that but they could have made it work. Talent and drive should always count more than a prototype.

 

[blueblood70]

It's not about Lamb. It's about consistently doing this year after year after year. That's what's led to our horrific D.

they've made bad choices but last year wasn't one of them and its not year after year they felt like they addressed it by taking bad advice from coaches and scouts who pushed for guys like Hill and Taco, they were NOT Jerry picks, stop blaming the FO for taking the advice of scouts, Mcclay and coaches pushes for certain players..


the new staff will have new list and hopefully they get it corrected, their first draft got Lamb and Diggs added a few for depth they felt they had the holes filled this year they did address the defense, just because it didnt work out YET doesnt mean they are ignoring it..

Smith, Griffen, Poe, Haha and McCoy and have Gregory back that was trying...

not knowing LVE , LEE. MCCOY and a long list of others would be out on IR, it failed so far for far more reason then taking Lamb thats my point..

 

[atlantacowboy]

Once again, you guys are fixated on defending this one pick. This is about doing it over and over.

Mo, Jaylon, Taco, Zeke, all were BPA.

Jaylon was not BPA. We weren't even sure he would ever play football again when we picked him and it took almost 2 years for him to show any value. He was a terrible round 2 selection.
Taco was not BPA either. The scouts had TJ Watt ranked higher but Marinelli preferred Taco and his size.
We traded to move up and get Mo. So its not like he just fell to us like the other guys. We targeted him , misjudged his talent, and overpaid.
Zeke is a different argument. No RB is worth a top 10 draft pick. Their are just too many of them that will do just fine in round 2 or 3.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

It's not about Lamb. It's about consistently doing this year after year after year. That's what's led to our horrific D.

100% ......No question I still pick Lamb but see exactly what you're saying how they have never focused on building the D as a whole with top talent. It's always piecemeal here and there. Look at Washington or 49ers DLines or even the Eagles.

 

[cowboyec]

Once again, you guys are fixated on defending this one pick. This is about doing it over and over.

Mo, Jaylon, Taco, Zeke, all were BPA.

Taco wasn't best available.
i defended that pick and have admitted i was wrong.
but he wasn't BPA.

so who should they have taken over Lamb?
i wanted Chaisson going in...until Lamb started falling.
but i'm all for trusting your scouts and your board.
they do the work all year....trust their work.
marinelli is why we got Taco and Trysten Hill.
im sure the scouts disagreed with those selections.
if garrett was still here...we dont take Lamb.
im trusting my scouts who do the work...not position coaches.
trust your board.

 

[Flamma]

What team can truly take the highest ranked player on their draft board regardless of needs?

The Dallas Cowboys had the #1 offense and #2 passing offense in 2019 and didn't lose a WR in FA. Add to this they used the #1 pick on a WR in 2019. And they renewed him for a top 5 WR contract.

This is not against CeeDee Lamb, he's a fine player and a find at 17 but why didn't he get picked earlier? Some teams had him as the #1 WR in that draft, ahead of Jeudy and Ruggs. Why didn't they take him?

The Cowboys lose their best DB and DL and have an injury prone LB and another with a neck issue, not a good issue for a LB.

Some wonder why this team continues to struggle but consider the % of the cap that goes to the offense, they spent the 1st pick on a WR, they hired an offensive HC who made a questionable DC hire. Would you feel 2nd class to be on this defense?

Management continues to treat the defense like a red headed stepchild and then wonders why it is such a problem.

The answer to the question I pose is none. No team can afford to ignore needs and all teams have more than one draft board and few use the main board.

Now, had you been constructing the needs position board for the Cowboys in this last draft, where would WR have fallen? Was that position even on your needs list going in? It wasn't on mine.

We can do hindsight all day. What would have been the better pick at 17? Was there some great defender available that we passed up? Point out the guy we'd rather have over Diggs that would have made a difference at 17.

To me the Lamb pick was good. Him and Gallup will hopefully be the Cowboys future at WR since Cooper is probably on his way out in a year. Sort of like a Drew Pearson/Tony Hill combo. But right now I would agree that Defense has to be a major focus. The Cowboys are in kind of a half rebuild.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Once again, you guys are fixated on defending this one pick. This is about doing it over and over.

Mo, Jaylon, Taco, Zeke, all were BPA.

People were in utter shock we took Jaylon as high as we did. Taco was a reach for need. They said they had a player higher in the board and had a 2nd round grade on Taco

 

[darthseinfeld]

And if we'd followed my advice in the past we'd have a top 5 D and a disruptive DLine and would be competing for super bowls.

I didn't like Chaisson much, BTW. My argument(and CC's) isn't about this one player, it's about always going for flash and sizzle and passing up needs for what we consider BPA(Which all too often isn't, BTW!!!)

You posted a thread after day 2 of the draft complaining we picked a WR and CB in the first two rounds instead of a DT and Safety. Both positions at those picks would have been major reaches.

Im not thrilled with the team they have built, but I am glad they dont take your advise lol

 

[J12B]

What about a trading for Minkah Fitzpatrick?

I know some felt like he was a risk but I felt pretty confident that Miami had just screwed that whole thing up royally.

Did the Steelers give up 2 1st rounders? I can't remember.

2 1st rounder was an expensive price, but he's made such a difference in Pittsburgh that it would have been worth it. But then again, we are probably missing a lot of pieces that would make Fitzpatrick's talent not recognizable. Defense is that bad lol

 

[baltcowboy]

What team can truly take the highest ranked player on their draft board regardless of needs?

The Dallas Cowboys had the #1 offense and #2 passing offense in 2019 and didn't lose a WR in FA. Add to this they used the #1 pick on a WR in 2019. And they renewed him for a top 5 WR contract.

This is not against CeeDee Lamb, he's a fine player and a find at 17 but why didn't he get picked earlier? Some teams had him as the #1 WR in that draft, ahead of Jeudy and Ruggs. Why didn't they take him?

The Cowboys lose their best DB and DL and have an injury prone LB and another with a neck issue, not a good issue for a LB.

Some wonder why this team continues to struggle but consider the % of the cap that goes to the offense, they spent the 1st pick on a WR, they hired an offensive HC who made a questionable DC hire. Would you feel 2nd class to be on this defense?

Management continues to treat the defense like a red headed stepchild and then wonders why it is such a problem.

The answer to the question I pose is none. No team can afford to ignore needs and all teams have more than one draft board and few use the main board.

Now, had you been constructing the needs position board for the Cowboys in this last draft, where would WR have fallen? Was that position even on your needs list going in? It wasn't on mine.

If we get a chance to draft Sewell, OT Oregon in the 2021 draft they need to run up to the podium and don’t look back. Drafting is about talent acquisition. With your line of thinking that is how we got Taco.

 

[kskboys]

they've made bad choices but last year wasn't one of them and its not year after year they felt like they addressed it by taking bad advice from coaches and scouts who pushed for guys like Hill and Taco, they were NOT Jerry picks, stop blaming the FO for taking the advice of scouts, Mcclay and coaches pushes for certain players..


the new staff will have new list and hopefully they get it corrected, their first draft got Lamb and Diggs added a few for depth they felt they had the holes filled this year they did address the defense, just because it didnt work out YET doesnt mean they are ignoring it..

Smith, Griffen, Poe, Haha and McCoy and have Gregory back that was trying...

not knowing LVE , LEE. MCCOY and a long list of others would be out on IR, it failed so far for far more reason then taking Lamb thats my point..

LVE and LEE have always been injury prone, going back to their college days. We did know. McCoy is old and has become injury prone. Also a known fact.

You need to start blaming the FO. He's the GM, he's the bottomline. I don't understand why you don't blame him.

 

[kskboys]

If we get a chance to draft Sewell, OT Oregon in the 2021 draft they need to run up to the podium and don’t look back. Drafting is about talent acquisition. With your line of thinking that is how we got Taco.

Your line of thinking is how we ended up w/ MO, Jaylon, LVE, and Gregory.

 

[blueblood70]

LVE and LEE have always been injury prone, going back to their college days. We did know. McCoy is old and has become injury prone. Also a known fact.

You need to start blaming the FO. He's the GM, he's the bottomline. I don't understand why you don't blame him.

No blame needed..

happens all over the league.. thats the issue around here , think somehow Jerry and Stephen are the only Owner GMs that make mistakes. But hey have you wallow in the mud moments citing obvious issues but making them isolated..

 

[kskboys]

You posted a thread after day 2 of the draft complaining we picked a WR and CB in the first two rounds instead of a DT and Safety. Both positions at those picks would have been major reaches.

Im not thrilled with the team they have built, but I am glad they dont take your advise lol

If they'd followed my advice, we wouldn't be in desperate need and Lamb would've been a great pick. You would be ecstatic if they'd have taken my advice.

The WR and CB did not make us better. You're focusing on one player, that's why you're not understanding my point. It wasn't Lamb and Diggs I had a problem w/. Those are good players for the future. It was the fact that we were once again putting ourselves further away from a championship.

 

[kskboys]

No blame needed..

happens all over the league.. thats the issue around here , think somehow Jerry and Stephen are the only Owner GMs that make mistakes. But hey have you wallow in the mud moments citing obvious issues but making them isolated..

No, I don't. You're ignoring the fact that Jerry is the GM and it comes down to him. The bad moves are not isolated, they are many. Escobar, Jaylon, LVE, MO, Connor Williams, Gregory, overpaying DLAW, Jaylon and Zeke. And then even moreso, passing up obvious picks who would've made us better, such as Jarron Reed, Thornhill, Grady Jarrett, and even big fat Tim Settle would've been an improvement on this clusterfudge. This is a mess due to our GM not understanding team building.

Isolated. Geez, how in the world did you come to that conclusion?

 

[kskboys]

People were in utter shock we took Jaylon as high as we did. Taco was a reach for need. They said they had a player higher in the board and had a 2nd round grade on Taco

Taco had a first round grade. Not a reach. It was a very poor player evaluation.

 

[cern]

I don't know who would have been a better pick than lambo, but i can imagine the screams had we not taken him when we picked. Atom bombs are one thing, but the f-bombs woyld havr been overwhelming.

 

[darthseinfeld]

If they'd followed my advice, we wouldn't be in desperate need and Lamb would've been a great pick. You would be ecstatic if they'd have taken my advice.

The WR and CB did not make us better. You're focusing on one player, that's why you're not understanding my point. It wasn't Lamb and Diggs I had a problem w/. Those are good players for the future. It was the fact that we were once again putting ourselves further away from a championship.

You complained they didnt reach for a DT or Safety. That was terrible advice. No I would be happy with your advise. Neither of those positions went before the 30's. You take the best talent you can. Its team building. You reach for lesser talent, like we did with Charlton and Hill, thats how you keep needing to make high picks at the same position.

Besides those early round picks arent the only you tools you use to build a team. Savy scouting to maximize later picks and a front office that makes efficient signings and trades is an equal partner in building. If you are weak there, it won't matter who you pick early. But Ill tell this, reaching on lesser players early because you feel the fit a need sure doesnt help