The Calvin Johnson Rule Does Not Apply

[Yakuza Rich]

My question is how many steps would it made him falling and the ball possibly coming into contact with not matter? He had 3 steps. Obviously if he takes 10 it doesn't matter. So how many steps would it have taken?
The other part that I don't understand is the part where the ball can be trapped sometimes, like the Cobb catch, and others it is deemed not under control.

There are so many different reasons why this was a catch.

I'll never get over this.

I get this argument. My post was really on why the CJ Rule doesn't apply. An act common to the game is clearly stated. If he makes an act to advance the ball, it's considered a catch.

I think if Dez didn't make the extension and advance the ball and it came out, then I could see the CJ rule being applied here. Even still, it would be a judgment call because like you say...tough to tell if he's falling down or if he's advancing the ball with those steps.

But the extension of the body and the left arm along with the lunging motion should leave no doubt. Rule 8.1.3. precedes the CJ Rule and it seems like so many people are too bullheaded to get this.

For the media and the league, it's easier to blame the rule because they don't have to beat up on the refs for 2 weeks in a row.




YR

 

[TwoDeep3]

You're not making any sense. The DB never dislodged the ball and Dez never juggled it.

On the 3rd step, Dez's left foot digs and pushes his body towards the endzone. That's a lunge. If you want to argue that the ball came lose on the lunge, fine. The ground can't cause a fumble, which HE did regain anyways.

Also there's no INDISPUTABLE evidence that the ball hits the ground.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2015...t-was-overturned-is-the-play-in-cowboys-26-21

The head ref cited the Calvin Johnson rule and that he saw no football move, which is FALSE. The act of going forward with the ball is a football move.

Blo

There is no assumption.

The rule (8.1.3) states it clearly.

'An Act Common To the Game' *includes* an act that is advancing the ball.

Dez was advancing the ball, right?

Then that is a 'football move.'



Not exactly.

Dez did re-establish control as evidenced by him moving the ball to his left hand in the tucked position. He then extended his entire body along with his left arm while he was still cradling the ball.

That was an act common to the game.

Why?

Because it was an act that did advance the ball forward.




Except they weren't and it didn't.

You will need to explain to us how Dez did not make an act that advanced the football.

If the league can logically explain to me how Dez did not make that act despite him fully extending and lunging his body along with extending his arm, I'm all ears.

Instead, they want to talk about the CJ rule and skip over rule 8.1.3. which takes precedent over the CJ Rule.




YR

Once he lost control and was touched by the DB he is required to control the ball to the ground. Regardless of his "football" move.

 

[Kevinicus]

Looks like he was falling even if there was no defender there and even if he was tripped it wouldn't matter. The rule says he has to maintain control while he's catching it, getting tackled or feet tangled would mean he would have had to have shown
clear possession before that happened which clearly wasn't the case.

If a football move is made after 2 feet are down, the process is complete. If he hits the ground before that, then he is "going to the ground during the process of the catch," and must maintain control.

Several football moves were made, with control, after the 2nd foot was down, and before he went to the ground. Therefore, process was complete before he went to the ground, and this rule does not apply.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Once he lost control and was touched by the DB he is required to control the ball to the ground. Regardless of his "football" move.

Sorry, you're wrong. You're making stuff up. And you're changing your arguments.

The rule book does not state that.

8.1.3 says that once he makes a football move it is considered a completed pass.

He regained control of the ball by moving it into his left arm in the tuck position. Had he done that and the ball came out, it would have been incomplete. But since he then made extended his arm, body and lunged forward...which is an act to advance the ball, it is now considered a completed pass. He is no longer required to maintain control of the ball thru the turf.




YR

 

[wconn1979]

Sorry, you're wrong. You're making stuff up. And you're changing your arguments.

The rule book does not state that.

8.1.3 says that once he makes a football move it is considered a completed pass.

He regained control of the ball by moving it into his left arm in the tuck position. Had he done that and the ball came out, it would have been incomplete. But since he then made extended his arm, body and lunged forward...which is an act to advance the ball, it is now considered a completed pass. He is no longer required to maintain control of the ball thru the turf.




YR

Your dead on YR. #CowboysRobbed will be my twitter hash tag for the rest of the year.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Sorry, you're wrong. You're making stuff up. And you're changing your arguments.

The rule book does not state that.

8.1.3 says that once he makes a football move it is considered a completed pass.

He regained control of the ball by moving it into his left arm in the tuck position. Had he done that and the ball came out, it would have been incomplete. But since he then made extended his arm, body and lunged forward...which is an act to advance the ball, it is now considered a completed pass. He is no longer required to maintain control of the ball thru the turf.




YR

I am not changing my argument. Clearly Dez takes control of the ball at the highest point.
Then the DB tips the ball and Dez has to reestablish control as it slides down his forearm.
Once that occurs, he has to maintain control to the ground because the DB hit him with his leg.
The show posted at the top of this page shows the point of the ball touching the ground as Dez went for the goal line.
The video shows from the reverse angle the ball rolling on top oif Dez' hand.

I am not changing my position. He lost control due to the DB and this means he now has to maintain control. Had he grasped the ball in both hands after reestablishing his control of the ball, then fell to the ground and the ball not move, it would have been Dallas' ball on the one.

His actions of trying to score acerbated the problem in this play because it caused the point of the ball to touch the ground.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/01/11/dez-bryant-catch-overturned-video/

The requirement for a catch changed when the DB tipped the ball.

You see the catch as such, and then a continuation.

The league sees the ball caught, juggled, then snagged again, and the requirements changing now on what is a catch.

I don't like it either. And this did not lose the game.

 

[DogFace]

Blo


Once he lost control and was touched by the DB he is required to control the ball to the ground. Regardless of his "football" move.

So how many steps does it take to make it not matter if he's touched or goes to the ground? He took 3 and I think that's enough. I'd say maybe one more and there'd be no question.

My point is if he's running after the catch it doesn't matter if he lunges or falls and the ball is jarred loose.
Also, I thought the ball could come in contact with the ground if he maintains control. I think he did.

 

[DogFace]

I am not changing my argument. Clearly Dez takes control of the ball at the highest point.
Then the DB tips the ball and Dez has to reestablish control as it slides down his forearm.
Once that occurs, he has to maintain control to the ground because the DB hit him with his leg.
The show posted at the top of this page shows the point of the ball touching the ground as Dez went for the goal line.
The video shows from the reverse angle the ball rolling on top oif Dez' hand.

I am not changing my position. He lost control due to the DB and this means he now has to maintain control. Had he grasped the ball in both hands after reestablishing his control of the ball, then fell to the ground and the ball not move, it would have been Dallas' ball on the one.

His actions of trying to score acerbated the problem in this play because it caused the point of the ball to touch the ground.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/01/11/dez-bryant-catch-overturned-video/

The requirement for a catch changed when the DB tipped the ball.

You see the catch as such, and then a continuation.

The league sees the ball caught, juggled, then snagged again, and the requirements changing now on what is a catch.

I don't like it either. And this did not lose the game.

I'm sorry. I think you're wrong about the db causing the ball to come loose. I don't think it came loose at all. It did hit the ground but he maintained control as he rolled over.

 

[TwoDeep3]

So how many steps does it take to make it not matter if he's touched or goes to the ground? He took 3 and I think that's enough. I'd say maybe one more and there'd be no question.

My point is if he's running after the catch it doesn't matter if he lunges or falls and the ball is jarred loose.
Also, I thought the ball could come in contact with the ground if he maintains control. I think he did.

Once he began to fall, steps don't matter.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Sorry, you're wrong. You're making stuff up. And you're changing your arguments.

The rule book does not state that.

8.1.3 says that once he makes a football move it is considered a completed pass.

He regained control of the ball by moving it into his left arm in the tuck position. Had he done that and the ball came out, it would have been incomplete. But since he then made extended his arm, body and lunged forward...which is an act to advance the ball, it is now considered a completed pass. He is no longer required to maintain control of the ball thru the turf.




YR

That is exactly how I see it. This has nothing to do the Calvin Johnson rule. Calvin was already in the end zone while Dez was trying to put the ball in the endzone.

Dez did everything what is required of a catch. Controlled the ball without bobbling it, two feet and more in bounds, and advancing the ball forward is a football move.

This is a catch pure and simple. There is no way arguing what just happened. Cowboys got cheated.

 

[MagicMan]

Unfortunately, no one is going to change the other's mind....... this will go into history just like "The Catch" in SF, but only this will be "The Phantom Catch".

I happen to be in "the catch" group, without question. Full possession, took at least 2 steps, shifted to left hand/forearm and then dove to the goal line. Turned from a receiver into a runner prior to the ball popping up. The ball was never loose or bobbled when Dez caught the ball so this argument regarding needing to maintain possession when he hit the ground is futile and without merit.

But I understand I will never change your mind just like you won't change mine. That's the way it is.

 

[speedkilz88]

The Calvin Johnson Rule does apply.


Dez caught ball.
Before first step, ball dislodged by DB
First foot falls as Dez recaptures the ball
Dez second step is now his first step with the ball
Third step is now true second step, and since the ball was juggled because of DB, this means he has to maintain control all the way to the ground.

The intentions of Dez to score mean nothing. He should have controlled the ball to the ground and allowed the offense to take it from there. No fault of Dez.

But - if he had caught it clean before first step with no dislodge by DB, then this was the refs making the wrong call.

This is wrong, because the refs acknowledge that if he makes a football move it is a catch by definition.

 

[speedkilz88]

Blo


Once he lost control and was touched by the DB he is required to control the ball to the ground. Regardless of his "football" move.

That is not the rule.

 

[loublue22]

I am not changing my argument. Clearly Dez takes control of the ball at the highest point.
Then the DB tips the ball and Dez has to reestablish control as it slides down his forearm.
Once that occurs, he has to maintain control to the ground because the DB hit him with his leg.
The show posted at the top of this page shows the point of the ball touching the ground as Dez went for the goal line.
The video shows from the reverse angle the ball rolling on top oif Dez' hand.

I am not changing my position. He lost control due to the DB and this means he now has to maintain control. Had he grasped the ball in both hands after reestablishing his control of the ball, then fell to the ground and the ball not move, it would have been Dallas' ball on the one.

His actions of trying to score acerbated the problem in this play because it caused the point of the ball to touch the ground.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/01/11/dez-bryant-catch-overturned-video/

The requirement for a catch changed when the DB tipped the ball.

You see the catch as such, and then a continuation.

The league sees the ball caught, juggled, then snagged again, and the requirements changing now on what is a catch.

I don't like it either. And this did not lose the game.

the ball moves in Dez's hands but he never loses control, it was NEVER juggled

and none of that was cited by the league in their explanation

 

[Nightman]

Once he began to fall, steps don't matter.

You say begins to fall.

I say he maintains his footing after a few steps if he isn't tripped by the DB.

He wasn't going to the ground in the process of making the catch and securing possession

He made the catch and then started the process of going to the ground because of contact by the DB

The CJ rule should not apply

 

[DogFace]

If a football move is made after 2 feet are down, the process is complete. If he hits the ground before that, then he is "going to the ground during the process of the catch," and must maintain control.

Several football moves were made, with control, after the 2nd foot was down, and before he went to the ground. Therefore, process was complete before he went to the ground, and this rule does not apply.

This says it all

 

[DogFace]

Once he began to fall, steps don't matter.

So if he falls after 10 steps it doesn't matter? I disagree. After a certain number of steps, should be 2, then it is a dive or a football move and is no longer a part of the catch.

 

[richzre]

I like Dean Blandino's explanation. "It wasn't enough of a football move". I'm thinking to myself....you just admitted it WAS a football move. There is no explanation of what is enough. How is that defined exactly? Basically, during the review, it could have went either way which should have been ruled as inconclusive at best.

 

[hairic]

I am not changing my argument. Clearly Dez takes control of the ball at the highest point.
Then the DB tips the ball and Dez has to reestablish control as it slides down his forearm.
Once that occurs, he has to maintain control to the ground because the DB hit him with his leg.
The show posted at the top of this page shows the point of the ball touching the ground as Dez went for the goal line.
The video shows from the reverse angle the ball rolling on top oif Dez' hand.

I am not changing my position. He lost control due to the DB and this means he now has to maintain control. Had he grasped the ball in both hands after reestablishing his control of the ball, then fell to the ground and the ball not move, it would have been Dallas' ball on the one.

His actions of trying to score acerbated the problem in this play because it caused the point of the ball to touch the ground.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/01/11/dez-bryant-catch-overturned-video/

The requirement for a catch changed when the DB tipped the ball.

You see the catch as such, and then a continuation.

The league sees the ball caught, juggled, then snagged again, and the requirements changing now on what is a catch.

I don't like it either. And this did not lose the game.

No. I keep seeing this posted regarding the DB. Dez did not lose control due to the DB contact. At best, all the DB does is weaken his grasp on the ball to a less effective one only because it moves the ball away from his right hand. The thumb and other fingers don't move; it is palmed by his left hand from the top until he brings it down to get the 2nd hand involved to establish a more effective grip. That initial grip or control of the ball is not eliminated. It's also not the first time I've seen Dez palm a ball and not be given the benefit of the doubt regarding control.

Keep note of how that hand moves with the ball through the DB contact. What is assumed to be a bobble from another angle is not one, it's just a palmed ball with forces applied to it as expected.

 

[loublue22]

I like Dean Blandino's explanation. "It wasn't enough of a football move". I'm thinking to myself....you just admitted it WAS a football move. There is no explanation of what is enough. How is that defined exactly? Basically, during the review, it could have went either way which should have been ruled as inconclusive at best.

and remember IT WAS CALLED A CATCH ON THE FIELD

and somehow what they saw was "indisputable evidence", which means all they did was check if the ball moved when it hit the ground and made the call, ignoring everything that had happened to that point.