The Calvin Johnson Rule Does Not Apply

[percyhoward]

Gresham's fall doesn't matter because forward progress was called as soon as he was hit....play dead. Yeah its messed up how fast you can call forward progress one time and then let a guy get driven back twenty yards by ten guys the next play.

When the ground causes the stoppage of forward progress there are details that must be adhered to unfortunately.

You're missing the point. The fall doesn't matter because the process of the catch was completed when he got both feet down and was contacted.

You're thinking that the stoppage of forward progress is what made it a catch. Not so.

1) Forward progress can't be stopped unless it has already started.
2) It can't start unless a player has possession of the ball.
3) Receivers can't possess the ball without first having made a catch.

 

[percyhoward]

these are points of opinion and judgement. Imo I think dez was going down. I saw him grab the ball off his shoulderpad and secure it. I didn't see enough to make me feel he was doing anything more than falling on the run. Im sorry for seeing it that way

Here's the trip, then.

 

[sb220]

You're missing the point. The fall doesn't matter because the process of the catch was completed when he got both feet down and was contacted.

You're thinking that the stoppage of forward progress is what made it a catch. Not so.

1) Forward progress can't be stopped unless it has already started.
2) It can't start unless a player has possession of the ball.
3) Receivers can't possess the ball without first having made a catch.

The fall doesn't matter because the whistle blew the play dead. If anything the ref screwed up calling forward progress way too fast....bang-bang-whistle. Its almost like that ref was in the hurry-up with the Bengals.

Baldino's explanation says so little about forward progress, people don't even realize its the entire fail of the call

 

[Kevinicus]

The fall doesn't matter because the whistle blew the play dead. If anything the ref screwed up calling forward progress way too fast....bang-bang-whistle. Its almost like that ref was in the hurry-up with the Bengals.

Baldino's explanation says so little about forward progress, people don't even realize its the entire fail of the call

Forward progress is called because the receiver was knocked back towards the line of scrimmage when he went out of bounds. And it has nothing to do with whether or not a catch can be ruled as complete or incomplete. The whistle is irrelevant.

 

[sb220]

Here's the trip, then.

in the first frame dez is at a 45 degree angle and momentum is still full speed. He never recovers...I don't buy the trip theory

 

[sb220]

Forward progress is called because the receiver was knocked back towards the line of scrimmage when he went out of bounds. And it has nothing to do with whether or not a catch can be ruled as complete or incomplete. The whistle is irrelevant.

what? calling forward progress means complete. the ref actually called it to benefit a completion. Like I said if it wasn't called so fast it would've been incomplete.....so it had everything to do with complete/incomplete

 

[percyhoward]

what? calling forward progress means complete. the ref actually called it to benefit a completion. Like I said if it wasn't called so fast it would've been incomplete.....so it had everything to do with complete/incomplete

OK, one step at a time.

How can a player make forward progress without the ball?

 

[JoeBoBBY]

these are points of opinion and judgement. Imo I think dez was going down. I saw him grab the ball off his shoulderpad and secure it. I didn't see enough to make me feel he was doing anything more than falling on the run. Im sorry for seeing it that way

It okay. you like to go against the grain and be different, and come to your own conclusions, no matter if 50 million other people say it was a catch . no matter the contradicting language of officials and the ambiguous nature. No matter of the OVERWHELMING video proof of otherwise.....

its okay. I do find it hilarious your in here on damage control though...... last resort, Dean? Or...........Gene? Slow day selling plungers?

 

[percyhoward]

in the first frame dez is at a 45 degree angle and momentum is still full speed. He never recovers...I don't buy the trip theory

Realize that what you just called a "theory" was actually the ruling on the field, and that you are supposed to need irrefutable evidence to overturn it.

 

[sb220]

OK, one step at a time.

How can a player make forward progress without the ball?

I understand what your getting at but calling forward progress negates Gresham getting knocked to his butt afterwards. Yes he had possession the split second the ref whistled.

Now say a Packer had been sitting at the goal line and hit dez like a brick wall in between one of those steps and the ref called forward progress stopped at that time.....then the bobble at the end doesn't matter. I know I know....its friggin Inception chit

 

[sb220]

Realize that what you just called a "theory" was actually the ruling on the field, and that you are supposed to need irrefutable evidence to overturn it.

The "theory" im referring to is that he wouldn't have gone down otherwise

 

[sb220]

Screw it, Im sorry this happened. Not gonna try to convince or argue the way I see it....don't even know why I started. Boredom and booze.

Vent away friends

 

[speedkilz88]

Screw it, Im sorry this happened. Not gonna try to convince or argue the way I see it....don't even know why I started. Boredom and booze.

Vent away friends

Booze explains it. Since you have no idea how to implement the rules.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

I understand what your getting at but calling forward progress negates Gresham getting knocked to his butt afterwards. Yes he had possession the split second the ref whistled.

Now say a Packer had been sitting at the goal line and hit dez like a brick wall in between one of those steps and the ref called forward progress stopped at that time.....then the bobble at the end doesn't matter. I know I know....its friggin Inception chit

inception itself is a movie....and "theory".

all this talk. But I come back to this, Dean, or Pittsburgh Gene.

There is no way enough of what your putting forth, that should have allowed ANYONE the thought that they had 100% conclusive evidence. Irrefutable!!!

Not-even-close. The call on the field should stand.. Which is what happened in the Gresham catch, because there could have been an argument of contact before hand. But they weren't going there .............you know why? Because its ludicrous(and not the singer). Crazy, extreme, almost like......................

someone wanted that call to happen...so they pushed for it.

 

[hairic]

The trip is more than the leg sweep. It starts from before his 2nd step hits the ground. Dez's knee hits the DB's *** in midair, stopping that step short. If there is no DB there at all, Dez's 2nd step would be further up the field with more inward rotation and he wouldn't have lost his balance.

This is the leg to leg down by contact point:

 

[CT Dal Fan]

All of the debate going on here proves one thing, and one thing only: there was not irrefutable evidence to overturn the original call of a completed pass, and the Cowboys got the irrefutable shaft.

And just to add my two cents: the way I STILL see the play was a completed pass, fumbled at the one yard line, and recovered in the endzone for a touchdown by Bryant.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

It's obvious we got screwed . The dez catch , cobbs catch that bounced off the floor . Spearing romo below the knees multiple times after the play . GB was also holding a ton (but they always get away with it) . We got screwed

 

[CT Dal Fan]

It's obvious we got screwed . The dez catch , cobbs catch that bounced off the floor . Spearing romo below the knees multiple times after the play . GB was also holding a ton (but they always get away with it) . We got screwed

I counted three times Jeremy Mincey was being held. I'm not one to whine about conspiracies; but I see the calls in this game as an "eye for an eye" for the non-PI call and the missed hold on Ronald Leary on the 4th and 6 play against Detroit. All last week there was talk of a "fix" being in for Dallas. Where's that talk about the Packers???

 

[JoeKing]

This is one of those plays that will be infamously remembered. I don't think the Calvin Johnson rule applies at the point it was enforced. They keep explaining it as a "process" and saying he did not complete the process but that process is only applicable if a player catches the ball and then immediately falls to the ground. After Dez caught the ball and then landed inbounds with both feet he did not fall down... he took steps and dove for the end zone. IMHO, at that point he is taking steps forward toward the end zone and then diving for the end zone, the "catch the ball process" is over. How many more steps would he need to take to complete the process? He then fumbled the ball and re-secured it in the end zone. Touchdown!

 

[CT Dal Fan]

This is one of those plays that will be infamously remembered. I don't think the Calvin Johnson rule applies at the point it was enforced. They keep explaining it as a "process" and saying he did not complete the process but that process is only applicable if a player catches the ball and then immediately falls to the ground. After Dez caught the ball and then landed inbounds with both feet he did not fall down... he took steps and dove for the end zone. IMHO, at that point he is taking steps forward toward the end zone and then diving for the end zone, the "catch the ball process" is over. How many more steps would he need to take to complete the process? He then fumbled the ball and re-secured it in the end zone. Touchdown!

This is exactly how I saw the play Sunday, and it's still how I see it now. But since there is still grey area, the officials should have let the original call- completed pass down at the one- stand.

But, I strongly believe the guys in stripes achieved what they set out to do after the missed calls against Dallas in the wild card round. In the NFL, two wrongs do make a right.