The Calvin Johnson Rule Does Not Apply

[dogberry]

To follow up on Percy should there have been a flag for a trip?

 

[kramskoi]

Here's why...

The CJ Rule is really about the receiver being in end zone when they catch the ball.

The reason is basically twofold:

1. A lot of catches in the end zone are ones where the receiver catches the ball and falls to the ground in some fashion.

2. When you catch the ball in the end zone, you cannot physically try and advance the ball to the end zone.

Rules are often based on intent and logic.

#2 is very important to understand why the CJ rule does not apply.

If the receiver is in the end zone, then *logically* they have no reason to try and turn themselves into a runner nor try to advance the ball to the end zone. Essentially, if they complete the catch it's a TD. Unlike if you catch a pass at the 5-yard line where you need to catch the ball and then try and advance the ball towards the end zone.

The rule states the pass must be completed 'throughout the process of the catch.'

So if the receiver is in the end zone and falls to the ground, that is the entire process of the catch. You are not going to see a receiver in the end zone catch the ball and either start running or reaching out with their arm because they don't need to advance the ball. It's already a score.

When the receiver is *not* in the end zone, the 'process of the catch' is different. Using logic, the process of the catch with the receiver *not* in the end zone should be when the receiver has control of the ball and then the receiver has the right to try and advance the ball. Otherwise, we could argue that WR's could not fumble the ball after a reception because they did not control the ball thru the process of the catch.

Since Dez extended his arm (and the ball was not coming loose as he extended his arm), the process of the catch had been completed and now he was turning himself from a receiver to a player trying to advance the ball. In the CJ case, the receiver would have no logical reason to extend their arm because they are already in the end zone.

I'm sure we all know this and understand this...I just think that the people pointing to the rule book are being a bit obtuse about how to read the rules and don't see how their interpretation contradicts the rules and don't understand the original intent of the rule.





YR

"So if the receiver is in the end zone and falls to the ground, that is the entire process of the catch. You are not going to see a receiver in the end zone catch the ball and either start running or reaching out with their arm because they don't need to advance the ball. It's already a score.

When the receiver is *not* in the end zone, the 'process of the catch' is different. Using logic, the process of the catch with the receiver *not* in the end zone should be when the receiver has control of the ball and then the receiver has the right to try and advance the ball. Otherwise, we could argue that WR's could not fumble the ball after a reception because they did not control the ball thru the process of the catch."



This is what aggravates the hell out of me and ticks me off about Mike Periera "shilling" to save face for NFL officials. Your logical analysis demonstrates why the Calvin Johnson rule does not "logically" apply. Somebody might eventually admit that they got it wrong, but it won't be anytime soon! Intent, interpretation and application...ALL FAIL!

 

[EPL0c0]

I absolutely agree.

However, for the betterment of the game in the future, this should be discussed. Not only for future cases like this one where the receiver is extending the ball towards the end zone, but for other plays where people say 'the rule books says this' and they are clearly misinterpreting the rule book.

It's not going to go away, but if there is a positive it would be to get the league to understand the rule correctly.





YR

When does falling stop and forward progress/movement begin?

 

[tyke1doe]

I absolutely agree.

However, for the betterment of the game in the future, this should be discussed. Not only for future cases like this one where the receiver is extending the ball towards the end zone, but for other plays where people say 'the rule books says this' and they are clearly misinterpreting the rule book.

It's not going to go away, but if there is a positive it would be to get the league to understand the rule correctly.

But that play has gone against other teams. Either you change the rule, or you live with the rule.

 

[The Quest for Six]

No. He was not "going to the ground." He completed the process of the catch and then made a football move to try and advance the ball. It was a terrible misapplication of the "going to the ground" rule.

falling towards the end zone off balance isn't a football move...

 

[JD_KaPow]

falling towards the end zone off balance isn't a football move...

That's true. And if that's what Dez had been doing, then it wouldn't be a catch.

 

[loublue22]

Whether Dez caught the ball in play, on the sidelines or in the end zone, he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of the catch when he goes to the ground, clearly he did not, the ball came lose when he hit the ground, so therefore it would be an incomplete pass regardless where he caught it on the field...it was the correct call, I hate the rule, always have, but it's the rule....

he completes the process of the catch as soon as he lands with complete control and advances the ball

 

[cajuncocoa]

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 of the NFL Rule Book (page 51) states that “if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact with an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.”

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/09/15/explanation-of-overturned-td-by-murphy/

 

[Jenky]

Bryant says he was lunging for the goal line on ESPN. The reporter asked if he thought the call was related to the Calvin Johnson rule. Dez was like "what are you talking about? This isn't the same situation. I took 3 steps and lunged for the goal line."

 

[loublue22]

When does falling stop and forward progress/movement begin?

well he caught it at the 6 and the ball was spotted inside the 1

so he made a bit of progress I'd say

 

[TheCount]

All of this is moot if Dez just secures the ball and makes sure he's got the first down on a 4th down play. He had no business reaching out, the 1st down was way more important than the TD in that scenario.

I think the one that stumps me is, if a receiver reaches for a catch on the sideline, gets two toes in and then has it slip out on the way out of bounds... what is that? Incomplete?

 

[percyhoward]

To follow up on Percy should there have been a flag for a trip?

I can see why there wasn't, because it wasn't blatant. I didn't even notice it the first few times I watched it. I was watching Dez.

That said, without the trip, that's a touchdown. No review necessary because nobody cares about what happens to the ball after Dez falls down somewhere out of the end zone.

 

[loublue22]

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 of the NFL Rule Book (page 51) states that “if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact with an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.”

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/09/15/explanation-of-overturned-td-by-murphy/

the rule book also says this is irrelevant if a "football play" is made

it also says a catch occurs if a player advances the ball, which Dez did (5 yards) both with his legs and his arms

 

[Chuck 54]

To be honest, even the CJ rule is garbage. He caught the ball and in his excitement, touches the ball down as he moves to celebrate....the ball didn't touch the ground as part of the catch or because it was unavoidable. When they showed it again today, I couldn't help but think how ridiculous of a call that was too, whether correctly applied or not.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

All of this is moot if Dez just secures the ball and makes sure he's got the first down on a 4th down play. He had no business reaching out, the 1st down was way more important than the TD in that scenario.

I think the one that stumps me is, if a receiver reaches for a catch on the sideline, gets two toes in and then has it slip out on the way out of bounds... what is that? Incomplete?

That's a good point. I can't fault the guy though.

 

[cajuncocoa]

the rule book also says this is irrelevant if a "football play" is made

it also says a catch occurs if a player advances the ball, which Dez did (5 yards) both with his legs and his arms

I'm not arguing those points. I think it was a catch, too (most of the NFL universe thinks it was a catch). I posted that because the OP stated it had to be in the end zone for the CJ rule to apply.

 

[loublue22]

All of this is moot if Dez just secures the ball and makes sure he's got the first down on a 4th down play. He had no business reaching out, the 1st down was way more important than the TD in that scenario.

I think the one that stumps me is, if a receiver reaches for a catch on the sideline, gets two toes in and then has it slip out on the way out of bounds... what is that? Incomplete?

silly Dez for trying to score a touchdown after he catches the ball with both feet inbounds and the goal line right in front of him

also, I blew apart this ridiculous argument on page 1 of this thread

 

[loublue22]

I'm not arguing those points. I think it was a catch, too (most of the NFL universe thinks it was a catch). I posted that because the OP stated it had to be in the end zone for the CJ rule to apply.

that's fair then

 

[AdamJT13]

The CJ Rule is really about the receiver being in end zone when they catch the ball.

Wrong. The rule is the same whether in the end zone or out of the end zone -- it states that explicitly.

A player who goes to the ground in the process of attempting to secure possession of a loose ball (with or without contact by an opponent) must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, there is no possession. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, it is a catch, interception, or recovery.


The entire issue is whether Dez was going to the ground in the process of making the catch.

 

[Bull Frog]

Anybody who has eyes and no affiliation to NFL officials know that was a catch. Everyone knows he caught the ball. Deion Sanders said it was a catch, but not according to the NFL rules and their interpretation of a football move it was not. So some jack hole says if Dez reached out with both hands it is a catch, but there was no distinct effort to reach out with one hand. There is an obvious effort to reach out. It was a catch and maybe one of the worst calls I have ever seen. It should not have been overturned. Three steps, elbow down, down by contact, then the reach. Everyone who is arguing it wasn't a catch can **** off.