The Case For OL

Sitting Bull;4507502 said:
I'm still on the DeCastro train at #14. I still remember Romo getting chased and battered; I remember the deep concern our own team had over protecting Romo with an inexperienced line, starting in week 1 against the Jets and recurring every time we faced a strong pass rush. I think we deserve a line that dominates and dictates- keeping our offense multi-dimensional and our quarterback upright.

I think there are clearly 3 big upgrades that could be available for the team at #14. DeCastro over any of the interior lineman currently on the roster. Cox over Coleman. And Barron over Pool at safety.
 
I don't want Decastro at 14. I still believe you can get guards later on that are good enough to win with. I have no idea if the two signees are good enough but I suspect they are.

Having said that I agree with Hos that Decastro is going to play a long time at a high level. He will be in the top ten players in this draft IMO. So it wouldn't hurt my feelings to draft him. I'd prefer a pass rusher or DB or DL. I don't know if one of those is anywhere near the low risk Decastro is.

I can almost promise you the Cowboys will be looking for a way to improve its pass rush first followed by DBs second though. But they would discuss some players at other positions and could even draft one. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
CowboyFan74;4507435 said:
One thing is for certain, fixing the O-line will make our offense our best defense...

There is a lot of truth to that.

It is good the defense upgraded with Carr, but it'd be unwise to neglect the offense given just how important offense is in today's league.
 
MichaelWinicki;4507523 said:
I think there are clearly 3 big upgrades that could be available for the team at #14. Cox over Coleman.

Brockers/Poe = Ratliff over Coleman
 
jobberone;4507527 said:
I don't want Decastro at 14. I still believe you can get guards later on that are good enough to win with.


I don't want someone who is good enough, I want the best in the game. Yes, our defense is a concern but it's not like the Eagles, Giants, and Commanders run a prolific passing game liks the Saints or Green Bay. What the NFC East has is elite pass rushers. JPP and Demarcus Ware headline that group but we are in the division with the likes of Brian Orakpo, Ryan Kerrigan, Trent Cole, Jason Babin, Osi Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck. I would say that O-line is a VERY pressing need in this division.
 
Hostile;4507319 said:
I believe my posts would reflect the fact that I still believe that. I've pimped DeCastro and Konz as being what we need to be in the Super Bowl and win it. I doubt you can find a thread where I've liked any Defensive player at 14.

I also don't believe you can find a single post where I am excited about either Livings or Bernadeau. I expressed excitement over the Free Agency Haul. I certainly do not deny that.

I figured we'd stick with Fiammetta. I actually like Vickers better. The only FB in the NFL I like better is probably Vonta Leach. I am this forums biggest FB shill. Last year my pet cat was Henry Hynoski. We drafted Shaun Chapas, and Hynoski went UDFA to the Giants. Chapas looks like a PS guy. Hynoski looks like a pro. I like Vickers even more than I liked Hynoski. It makes me happy. I won't apologize for being excited about a FB I truly think is a difference maker.

I thought Dan Connors was a lock to the Eagles. He is from Pennsylvania and I read one time that he was an Eagles fan. They have LB needs. I didn't think we had a prayer of landing him. I'll take him over Bradie James or Keith Brooking this year any time. I feel like with him and Carter working with Lee we have the makings of a solid ILB corps. I'd like to add someone in the Draft and I think my mocks have all reflected this.

I didn't think we had a realistic shot at Kyle Orton. If you look back I was talking about Jason Campbell as our best hope at backup QB. I wanted us to take Orton with a waiver claim last year when Denver let him go. We did, but so did the Chiefs and we lost out. I am shocked he agreed to come here as Tony's backup when he possibly could have started for several other teams including Miami, Seattle, San Francisco, or Cleveland for example. Hell, he could have started for the Chiefs again. I won't apologize for being excited that we landed what I think is the best backup we possibly could have.

I know you're not into paying CBs high dollars. I am not on that same train. I really don't care what we pay someone as long as we remain under the cap and improve the team. I do believe Carr will be an improvement over Newman. I didn't dislike Newman, but his time had come and gone. His cost was prohibitive and the results weren't there. I believe Carr's press coverage abilities will allow us to improve defensively. I have nothing against doing that in the D-Backfield. It doesn't bother me. It clearly does bother you. I've never come after you for how you feel about that. Clearly if someone does not agree with you 100% you feel you have to come after them in some other way such as this. That's cool, just don't put thoughts into my head and words in my mouth.

I am excited about the team in 2012. I won't deny it. I think Woicik having a full off season is to our advantage in a huge way. I heard from one guy recently that when he went by VR he was impressed with how many of our guys are there hitting the training hard. It excites me. Football has a way of doing that to me. If you can't be excited unless you get every toy on your list, I can't help you.

I wanted Nicks pretty bad. I liked Grubbs too. I am hopeful the scouting department sees things in Livings and Bernadeau that I am unaware of, but that has never stopped me from wanting DeCastro above all other players in the Draft and I have never moved from my belief that OL has to be our #1 priority. You cannot show me where I have said, "Hey, we're done on OL, let's fix DBs and DL." You can't do it because I have never thought it.

Oh, and not to be too flip about it, but I'd have been excited about Free Agency if the only thing we had done so far was to get rid of a 2nd Kicker. In case you didn't know it, I hate Kickers.

That last part was strictly for fun. Just making that clear.

Yes, I am excited. I am sorry that you aren't. I can't help you there. You have to do that yourself.


My favorite part about Hos is something that I truly believe in and what bothers so much about some fans. He and I are not to apologize for our views our optimism and our fandom of the greatest franchise in sports.
 
rash;4507390 said:
Hos and RS let's have peace :bow:

It was merely a discussion of his inconsistency as I see it. I don't see the need for any drama.
 
MichaelWinicki;4507494 said:
I'm not sure that's an accurate statement, i.e. the 3 position thing. I would be secure in saying the Cowboys believe the number is less than 3.

Hey, if you want to trust those talent evaluators go right ahead. If you watched last season you saw it for yourself.

We had three positions on the OL that were subpar last year. Actually four but the LT is going to the right side to try to salvage him. If they view Nate Livings and/or MacKenzie Bernadeau as the kind of upgrades we need at those spots then I'll have to disagree. Those guys are plan B insurance quality.
 
fortdick;4507520 said:
Better than last year could still be poor.

Yeah, that's what I don't get. Why this "get by" mentality in front of Romo but we need to pay through the nose for cornerbacks?
 
Risen Star;4507589 said:
Yeah, that's what I don't get. Why this "get by" mentality in front of Romo but we need to pay through the nose for cornerbacks?

Let me guess you wanted Grubbs and Nicks?
 
Risen Star;4507586 said:
Hey, if you want to trust those talent evaluators go right ahead. If you watched last season you saw it for yourself.

We had three positions on the OL that were subpar last year. Actually four but the LT is going to the right side to try to salvage him. If they view Nate Livings and/or MacKenzie Bernadeau as the kind of upgrades we need at those spots then I'll have to disagree. Those guys are plan B insurance quality.

I don't think the alternative i.e. keeping Gurode, Davis and Colombo would have made much difference, other than creating an even larger salary cap issue.

If you're saying the team hadn't done a good job of finding/creating interior offensive line help the prior 2-3 seasons then I'm on board with that.

The fact is last season was the result of failures past coming home to roost.

I think Livings can be competent. competent competant guard can be found out of the remaining group. Put a decent center out there and I think you'll see a nice improvement.
 
Risen Star;4507589 said:
Yeah, that's what I don't get. Why this "get by" mentality in front of Romo but we need to pay through the nose for cornerbacks?

It's because by a wide margin the pass defense was the worst unit out there.
 
MichaelWinicki;4507597 said:
It's because by a wide margin the pass defense was the worst unit out there.

I don't even agree with that. We had like 3 rushing TDs from the backs last year. That's historically pathetic.
 
Were there injuries to the Olinemen last year, were there any rookies or 1st year starters and is this the same scheme?

These are all relevant questions one would have to ask themselves if they were really evaluating talent on their roster.

Ignoring those important questions would not be prudent for anyone trying to improve a football team.
 
MichaelWinicki;4507596 said:
I don't think the alternative i.e. keeping Gurode, Davis and Colombo would have made much difference, other than creating an even larger salary cap issue.

If you're saying the team hadn't done a good job of finding/creating interior offensive line help the prior 2-3 seasons then I'm on board with that.

The fact is last season was the result of failures past coming home to roost.

I think Livings can be competent. competent competant guard can be found out of the remaining group. Put a decent center out there and I think you'll see a nice improvement.

I see you still try and twist things. Who wanted to keep Colombo? Who wanted to keep Davis?

The one that I and many others worried about letting go was Gurode and that proved exactly the achilles heel of our O line last year
 
Canadian BoyzFan;4507592 said:
Let me guess you wanted Grubbs and Nicks?

Not and, or. One of the two as well as a FA C. That would have put us in a good position going into the draft.
 
I don't know how you can say that FA didn't address our needs because it most certainly did.

Livings/Bernadeau - Kosier/Holland (Upgrade)

Orton - Kitna (Upgrade)

Connor - James (Upgrade)

Carr - Newman (Upgrade)

Vickers - Fiametta (Upgrade)

Now you can't fix everything in FA but we did alot of good work there especially bringing in young veterans. I would have thought a C was in the mix but after seeing what was available that would have meant he would have been a progress stopper for one of the younger guys.
I'm not sure why some folks are up in arms about not getting Nicks or Grubbs. Grubbs is not suited for a zone blocking scheme and there are stats to prove that because his grades dropped drastically after Baltimore switched to a zone blocking scheme last year. Nicks was way too expensive and everyone knew that was the case after he said he wanted to be the highest paid G in the NFL. We can't afford to tie up that kind of $$ in a non-premium position because he would have hamstrung our other FA aquisitions.
Am I happy with Livings and Bernadeau? I can't say I am jumping for joy but after hearing Broaddus talk about Livings it seems like he was being misused in CIN. Bernadeau offers flexibility because he can play C of needed but it looks like a depth move more than anything. Kosier was physically done as much as a great guy he was he graded out worse than Holland. Holland's ceiling is what it is, he can no longer progress but he filled in nicely for the season until he got injured. I expect him to be back as training camp fodder.
 

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