The Cost of Not Signing Dak (lengthy)

[75boyz]

I don't think this is true. I think at least one of the top 4 QBs will be there at 10. I mean, things could change once the combine happens but they could change either way.

What do we have now, I think it's as follows:

Jags
Jets
Fins
Falcons
Cincy
Philly
Lions
Carolina
Broncos
Us

Jags need a QB, I think they take Lawrence but, then again, they have taken three QBs in the first round recently. Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles. I mean, I think they take Lawrence but I wouldn't be surprised to see them pass either and take a sure thing like Sewell.

Jets, they have a talented QB now but they don't have much else. I mean, drafting a QB now, what's that guy really going to do? He's going to die a slow bleedout death, just like all the rest of the Jets QBs have, thus far. To me, makes more sense for them to either trade out, which could mean a team trading up for QB or it could mean taking a cornerstone player like Sewell (if he's there), Parsons etc. I'm not sure they take QB. I could see Jags taking Lawrence and Jets taking Sewell. That would make more sense to me.

Miami has Tua, Grier isn't going to draft another QB and basically admit that he screwed up the tip 5 pick from 2020 unless they intend to trade Tua and then, they aren't getting premium value for him. They won't even get fair value for him because they spent a top 5 to get him and they won't get that back. They might not get a 1st. I think they might consider WR or go OL. This could be the trade down spot here because there are a lot of WRs in this group and the OT position after Sewell really starts at 11 down IMO.

Falcons need a QB. I think they take one for sure.

Cincy isn't taking a QB.

Philly isn't taking a QB. Pederson just got cut loose because he wanted Hurts and his GM wanted Wentz. Wentz is the GMs guy so they aren't taking a QB plus, I think Hurts is gone in Philly.

Lions, I don't know if they take a QB this year. I mean, yeah they need to start thinking about it but see, they are one of those teams that went along with the "Pay the man" ideology early on. They are stuck with a 20 mil cap hit if they move on now. Makes more sense, to me, to look at taking another postion, maybe WR, and looking at a QB next year for cap purposes. Now, if they could figure out a trade, that might work. For example, say a trade for a younger QB that they might be willing to pay big money for, like Dak. Detroit will pay that guy because they aren't good and they are more interested in putting butts in the stands then actually winning. They would pay Dak. If they would trade Stafford and their 8 for Dak, I would do that deal in a second. That deal would work for everybody. Gives Detroit their young experienced QB. Gives Dak and his agent the deal they want. Lets Stafford come home to close out his career. Gives Dallas the Bridge QB, with cap relief, and gives them two top 10 picks in this draft, gives them position to take one of the top young signal callers or room to trade up or down and work the draft for defense. That, to me, is the perfect deal for all parties. JMO

Carolina, I don't know that they go QB. I mean, anything is possible but I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a TE. They need one bad, they would be taking a top 5 player in this draft and probably top 3 player if they took Pitts from Florida.

Broncos, I think they like their QB a lot more then a lot of fans think they do. Will they take a QB? IDK if they do. I mean, if they were picking Lawrence, I think they would but they won't be so the will be looking at whomever is left. I think they really like Wilson but I think that kid is going to whichever team trades up with whomever. I think he's the second QB taken in this draft. I think Fields is not going to be as hot as he was a few weeks ago and then you got Trey Lance. Does he fit that Offense and does Elway like him? That's the kicker, right there. If they take a QB, Elway has to love that guy. I think they take Defense all the way. Edge rusher, they could look at one of the CBs here as well.

Then there's us. I think three QBs are gone by now. I think one of the top 4 is still on the board if we want one here. But honestly, I think this pick is Defense unless we can make a trade. This pick should be LT IMO but the new DC will get this draft to fix the D IMO.

Nice. I rank positional needs as QB at 1 and LT at 2.
And that's even after this nightmare of a year's defensive showing.

Don't get me wrong if a Sapp/Donald clone or Reed/Polamalu twin were available my choice may be altered but I can't shake the idea that the 2 most important positions on offense need upgrades as equally important as the defense.

Sounds almost Jones 'esque...I might puke, lol

But it is my opinion regardless.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Lions might deal Stafford and take a QB in this draft. Wouldn't surprise me to see NE take a run at them for him or even CAR.

They could try that but then they would have to like the QBs that are left on the board and we don't know who that might be right? So yeah, they could try and do that but there is no guarantee there. So is it better to draft that guy or is it better to trade for a guy like Dak, who is young and has experience. A known quantity, if you will? IDK......

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Our friendly/respectful disagreement continues on said QB. I'm not a paid NFL scout or GM.
But for 'you' to use some tangible observed performance based on a one year high volume statistical pass offense as a reference point I find somewhat surprising to put it mildly.
You already know all the numbers 22 to 3 td/int ratio against scrubs and 7-2 W/L along with 8/8 td/int and 1 6 against anyone with a pulse. I don't lump you into the excuse makers who will blame Garrett, defense oline or Zeke for these 2019 QB numbers while absolving Dak of all blame. Unless you do not believe he shares the Lions share of responsibility as the one who takes every offensive snap.
The same footwork, mechanics, half field vision, presence and 1st read stare downs all come back into play when pressured. The reboot to factory settings is real.

Just really strange QB prescription glasses you are using in comparison to mine. Waaaaaayyy different. But since it's "you" I chalk it up to another simple difference of opinion.
Cheers bro

No excuses. but my view about wins/losses is different than some....I don't put wins/losses solely on a QB, as he is responsible for offense and offensive output. I had posted stats about wins against teams with winning records and you would be surprised to the results. Rodgers, brees both post career losing records against teams with winning records.

I put wins/losses on the coaches (offense, defense, special teams) and with that, a lot of difference between coaches is decisions they make in critical times of the game. All schemes are designed for success, based on player execution and some are slightly better than others, but even then game day play calling separates good coaches/OCs from average and bad ones... No excuses, but reality Last year alone we lost three games due to bad coaching decisions (minn, NO, NE). Garrett/Moore easily got outsmarted and 2019 was a very strange year, one that I don't remember in the NFL, with coaches, on a one year contract, superbowl or bust and the team and coaches imploded in front of us. the blame for the mess goes to the GM (haven't we all had that complain).

I have also asked the question from many...if Brady had garrett as head coach how many superbowls would he win? like I said before, I have gotten mostly silence and one person said maybe 2, probably. even he wasn't sure and no committal. that's reality of NFL that we have to accept.

Now, I do agree the QB is the key to offensive success and Dak has produced and gotten better. I argued two years ago not to get him a contract, for some issues that you outlined with his mechanics. I wanted to see improvement and I believe Kitna was instrumental. His footwork improved greatly, his mechanics improved and he started to trust himself a lot more, making the tight throws leading to less sacks because he held on to the ball too long. he does go to his 2nd and 3rd reads, as we have seen both Gallup, Cooper and the TEs produce with Dak.

i don't over analyze every throw, every miss, every interception, every drop back. no QB in this league including Mahomes would withstand that level of scrutiny. I have seen people take specific quarter, in a specific game and analyze it to death.....that's just plain wrong..

you look at his out put, in all statistical categories and he ranks among the top. he has over his career improved. he keeps the team very competitive and seemingly has the will to rally the team and bring them from behind (same thing was said about Rodgers, few others). He is not Brady. He is not Brees. He is not Rodgers. He is not Mahomes. He is top 10 for sure.

and now that we have a top 10 QB, it just makes zero sense to dismantle it and go chasing a QB again. No good FA is available, there is a reason their teams let them go. draft is a lottery with ove 80% miss rate and lets just say for the sake of argument we draft a qb and develop him for a few years, only to bulk at the contract he is going to want for becoming a top 10 QB....

and we agree to disagree. this year, given the circumstances, it was proof to me that Dak is the answer and he is one piece that will keep the offense competitive, but we need to improve the defense.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't think this is true. I think at least one of the top 4 QBs will be there at 10. I mean, things could change once the combine happens but they could change either way.

What do we have now, I think it's as follows:

Jags
Jets
Fins
Falcons
Cincy
Philly
Lions
Carolina
Broncos
Us

Jags need a QB, I think they take Lawrence but, then again, they have taken three QBs in the first round recently. Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles. I mean, I think they take Lawrence but I wouldn't be surprised to see them pass either and take a sure thing like Sewell.

Jets, they have a talented QB now but they don't have much else. I mean, drafting a QB now, what's that guy really going to do? He's going to die a slow bleedout death, just like all the rest of the Jets QBs have, thus far. To me, makes more sense for them to either trade out, which could mean a team trading up for QB or it could mean taking a cornerstone player like Sewell (if he's there), Parsons etc. I'm not sure they take QB. I could see Jags taking Lawrence and Jets taking Sewell. That would make more sense to me.

Miami has Tua, Grier isn't going to draft another QB and basically admit that he screwed up the tip 5 pick from 2020 unless they intend to trade Tua and then, they aren't getting premium value for him. They won't even get fair value for him because they spent a top 5 to get him and they won't get that back. They might not get a 1st. I think they might consider WR or go OL. This could be the trade down spot here because there are a lot of WRs in this group and the OT position after Sewell really starts at 11 down IMO.

Falcons need a QB. I think they take one for sure.

Cincy isn't taking a QB.

Philly isn't taking a QB. Pederson just got cut loose because he wanted Hurts and his GM wanted Wentz. Wentz is the GMs guy so they aren't taking a QB plus, I think Hurts is gone in Philly.

Lions, I don't know if they take a QB this year. I mean, yeah they need to start thinking about it but see, they are one of those teams that went along with the "Pay the man" ideology early on. They are stuck with a 20 mil cap hit if they move on now. Makes more sense, to me, to look at taking another postion, maybe WR, and looking at a QB next year for cap purposes. Now, if they could figure out a trade, that might work. For example, say a trade for a younger QB that they might be willing to pay big money for, like Dak. Detroit will pay that guy because they aren't good and they are more interested in putting butts in the stands then actually winning. They would pay Dak. If they would trade Stafford and their 8 for Dak, I would do that deal in a second. That deal would work for everybody. Gives Detroit their young experienced QB. Gives Dak and his agent the deal they want. Lets Stafford come home to close out his career. Gives Dallas the Bridge QB, with cap relief, and gives them two top 10 picks in this draft, gives them position to take one of the top young signal callers or room to trade up or down and work the draft for defense. That, to me, is the perfect deal for all parties. JMO

Carolina, I don't know that they go QB. I mean, anything is possible but I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a TE. They need one bad, they would be taking a top 5 player in this draft and probably top 3 player if they took Pitts from Florida.

Broncos, I think they like their QB a lot more then a lot of fans think they do. Will they take a QB? IDK if they do. I mean, if they were picking Lawrence, I think they would but they won't be so the will be looking at whomever is left. I think they really like Wilson but I think that kid is going to whichever team trades up with whomever. I think he's the second QB taken in this draft. I think Fields is not going to be as hot as he was a few weeks ago and then you got Trey Lance. Does he fit that Offense and does Elway like him? That's the kicker, right there. If they take a QB, Elway has to love that guy. I think they take Defense all the way. Edge rusher, they could look at one of the CBs here as well.

Then there's us. I think three QBs are gone by now. I think one of the top 4 is still on the board if we want one here. But honestly, I think this pick is Defense unless we can make a trade. This pick should be LT IMO but the new DC will get this draft to fix the D IMO.

4 out of 5 QBs in the first round fail and are average at best...so you said 4 QBs in the top 10.....which 3 do you pick to be failures? Lawrence? Fields? Wilson? other?

 

[DandyDon1722]

TLDR: Letting Dak walk hurts this franchise a lot more than it helps us, in both the short and long term.

I have gone back and forth on the Dak-Dilemma for months. I am not a Dak hater. I consider myself a Dak-realist. He is not "elite" in my opinion (Mahommes, Rodgers are the only 2 QBs this year that qualify as elite in my estimation). Nor is he "mediocre" or "average" as many on this site claim. He is good. At times, he is really good. At other times, his play is borderline average.

And so we have arrived at a crossroads. To pay or not to pay? 2 years ago-- fans were arguing on whether or not he was worth 30 mil per year. Many said "not worth more than 25". Then Wentz and Goff signed-- and the needle moved to 34-35 mil per, and the counter was "not worth more 30". Then Mahommes and Watson signed, and the conversation is now 40 mil per and the counter is now "not worth more than 35". The simple truth is the QB market has been drastically reset over the past 2 years, and the cost of good QB play has significantly risen. Had we signed Dak 2 years ago for 30 mil, we would be in the middle of a sweetheart of a deal. But I digress....

If you let him walk... you gain cap space, yes-- but what do you lose? I've been thinking about the following items:

1. Fractured Locker-room. The players love him. He is the unquestioned leader and this is "Dak's team". If we choose to not pay him, the move will NOT be well received by the players and a riff occurs and eyebrows are raised. Add to that the pressure you put on Dak's replacement to fill his shoes on the field, and with his buddies off it-- and you have a bad situation ready to explode.

2. You lose top 10 level QB play on the field. No-- he is not top 3. But he is not middling either. IMO-- he is trending up, and his quality of play is top 10 in the NFL-- and that will win a lot of games. If you let him leave-- how do you replace his production?

3. Leadership intangibles. Related to point #1 for sure-- but Dak may have the best leadership skill of any QB in the NFL right now. Yes, Rodgers is a HOF player, but some of his teammates hate the guy. Mahommes is a stud and well-liked-- but Dak just is a natural born leader. He says the right things. He does the right things. He is football smart, but he has a high emotional IQ as well. Yes, you could trade up to draft a rookie-- but what you might gain (stress "might") in the football talent category, you more than likely lose a TON when it comes to leadership and "face of the franchise" factor.

4. You stand to lose Rep/Cred. If you let Dak walk, and he gets signed by another team, and hoists a Lombardi-- you will forever be the FO that "couldn't get a deal done with a high caliber franchise QB". Ouch. This franchise is already a laughing stock-- but that would take things to a new low-- especially if the "solution" they bring in to replace Dak doesn't pan out.

Therefore-- the best thing for the entire franchise is to sign Dak to a 4-5 year deal. We will overpay. But the number most fans are comfortable with paying him has already moved from 25 million per year 2 years ago, to 35 million per year now. As a fan-- Are you really willing to let him walk and potentially suffer the fallout over a 5 million per year difference?

Josh Allen is absolutely elite this year. He should be added to any list with Mahomes and Rodgers, he’s earned it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Nice. I rank positional needs as QB at 1 and LT at 2.
And that's even after this nightmare of a year's defensive showing.

Don't get me wrong if a Sapp/Donald clone or Reed/Polamalu twin were available my choice may be altered but I can't shake the idea that the 2 most important positions on offense need upgrades as equally important as the defense.

Sounds almost Jones 'esque...I might puke, lol

But it is my opinion regardless.

Yeah, I do think it will be Defense but I believe that it should be QB if we can't sign Dak reasonably and if there is one available to us that we like. If not, OT because this team lives and dies with their OL.

JMO

 

[Rockport]

TLDR: Letting Dak walk hurts this franchise a lot more than it helps us, in both the short and long term.

I have gone back and forth on the Dak-Dilemma for months. I am not a Dak hater. I consider myself a Dak-realist. He is not "elite" in my opinion (Mahommes, Rodgers are the only 2 QBs this year that qualify as elite in my estimation). Nor is he "mediocre" or "average" as many on this site claim. He is good. At times, he is really good. At other times, his play is borderline average.

And so we have arrived at a crossroads. To pay or not to pay? 2 years ago-- fans were arguing on whether or not he was worth 30 mil per year. Many said "not worth more than 25". Then Wentz and Goff signed-- and the needle moved to 34-35 mil per, and the counter was "not worth more 30". Then Mahommes and Watson signed, and the conversation is now 40 mil per and the counter is now "not worth more than 35". The simple truth is the QB market has been drastically reset over the past 2 years, and the cost of good QB play has significantly risen. Had we signed Dak 2 years ago for 30 mil, we would be in the middle of a sweetheart of a deal. But I digress....

If you let him walk... you gain cap space, yes-- but what do you lose? I've been thinking about the following items:

1. Fractured Locker-room. The players love him. He is the unquestioned leader and this is "Dak's team". If we choose to not pay him, the move will NOT be well received by the players and a riff occurs and eyebrows are raised. Add to that the pressure you put on Dak's replacement to fill his shoes on the field, and with his buddies off it-- and you have a bad situation ready to explode.

2. You lose top 10 level QB play on the field. No-- he is not top 3. But he is not middling either. IMO-- he is trending up, and his quality of play is top 10 in the NFL-- and that will win a lot of games. If you let him leave-- how do you replace his production?

3. Leadership intangibles. Related to point #1 for sure-- but Dak may have the best leadership skill of any QB in the NFL right now. Yes, Rodgers is a HOF player, but some of his teammates hate the guy. Mahommes is a stud and well-liked-- but Dak just is a natural born leader. He says the right things. He does the right things. He is football smart, but he has a high emotional IQ as well. Yes, you could trade up to draft a rookie-- but what you might gain (stress "might") in the football talent category, you more than likely lose a TON when it comes to leadership and "face of the franchise" factor.

4. You stand to lose Rep/Cred. If you let Dak walk, and he gets signed by another team, and hoists a Lombardi-- you will forever be the FO that "couldn't get a deal done with a high caliber franchise QB". Ouch. This franchise is already a laughing stock-- but that would take things to a new low-- especially if the "solution" they bring in to replace Dak doesn't pan out.

Therefore-- the best thing for the entire franchise is to sign Dak to a 4-5 year deal. We will overpay. But the number most fans are comfortable with paying him has already moved from 25 million per year 2 years ago, to 35 million per year now. As a fan-- Are you really willing to let him walk and potentially suffer the fallout over a 5 million per year difference?

Taking everything into consideration I think Dak is borderline elite and trending up. No doubt you sign that kind of talent .

 

[75boyz]

No excuses. but my view about wins/losses is different than some....I don't put wins/losses solely on a QB, as he is responsible for offense and offensive output. I had posted stats about wins against teams with winning records and you would be surprised to the results. Rodgers, brees both post career losing records against teams with winning records.

I put wins/losses on the coaches (offense, defense, special teams) and with that, a lot of difference between coaches is decisions they make in critical times of the game. All schemes are designed for success, based on player execution and some are slightly better than others, but even then game day play calling separates good coaches/OCs from average and bad ones... No excuses, but reality Last year alone we lost three games due to bad coaching decisions (minn, NO, NE). Garrett/Moore easily got outsmarted and 2019 was a very strange year, one that I don't remember in the NFL, with coaches, on a one year contract, superbowl or bust and the team and coaches imploded in front of us. the blame for the mess goes to the GM (haven't we all had that complain).

I have also asked the question from many...if Brady had garrett as head coach how many superbowls would he win? like I said before, I have gotten mostly silence and one person said maybe 2, probably. even he wasn't sure and no committal. that's reality of NFL that we have to accept.

Now, I do agree the QB is the key to offensive success and Dak has produced and gotten better. I argued two years ago not to get him a contract, for some issues that you outlined with his mechanics. I wanted to see improvement and I believe Kitna was instrumental. His footwork improved greatly, his mechanics improved and he started to trust himself a lot more, making the tight throws leading to less sacks because he held on to the ball too long. he does go to his 2nd and 3rd reads, as we have seen both Gallup, Cooper and the TEs produce with Dak.

i don't over analyze every throw, every miss, every interception, every drop back. no QB in this league including Mahomes would withstand that level of scrutiny. I have seen people take specific quarter, in a specific game and analyze it to death.....that's just plain wrong..

you look at his out put, in all statistical categories and he ranks among the top. he has over his career improved. he keeps the team very competitive and seemingly has the will to rally the team and bring them from behind (same thing was said about Rodgers, few others). He is not Brady. He is not Brees. He is not Rodgers. He is not Mahomes. He is top 10 for sure.

and now that we have a top 10 QB, it just makes zero sense to dismantle it and go chasing a QB again. No good FA is available, there is a reason their teams let them go. draft is a lottery with ove 80% miss rate and lets just say for the sake of argument we draft a qb and develop him for a few years, only to bulk at the contract he is going to want for becoming a top 10 QB....

and we agree to disagree. this year, given the circumstances, it was proof to me that Dak is the answer and he is one piece that will keep the offense competitive, but we need to improve the defense.

You rocked it bro.
No body else on "that" side comes close to your balance of respectful debate.
Thanks again for replying and being very detailed in your breakdown of support.
I may not fully ever come over to the pro Dak side as I still see the same Miss. State QB a tad more often thru my lenses than you do but it is always refreshing to read your reasoning and comprehensive logic behind your support.
To read the nonsensical phone staring self professed stats analytic expert drivel has long since played itself out.
You should be the Zone's singular mouthpiece/spokesperson to explain Prescott's performances from the positive side of the aisle.
I respect your opinion bro.

 

[StuckMojo]

Taking everything into consideration I think Dak is borderline elite and trending up. No doubt you sign that kind of talent .

And a losing record since becoming a pass happy first team behind Dak.

 

[jjktkk]

what does watching NFL football have to do with contract negotiations

And this one, ignorant, statement is all the reason to know Nickelodeon is probably your favorite channel. Noting how everybody and their grandpa has made mincemeat on your pro Dak schtick on the zone, I'm guessing you're more of Sponge Bob square[ants type.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I don't think this is true. I think at least one of the top 4 QBs will be there at 10. I mean, things could change once the combine happens but they could change either way.

What do we have now, I think it's as follows:

Jags
Jets
Fins
Falcons
Cincy
Philly
Lions
Carolina
Broncos
Us

Jags need a QB, I think they take Lawrence but, then again, they have taken three QBs in the first round recently. Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles. I mean, I think they take Lawrence but I wouldn't be surprised to see them pass either and take a sure thing like Sewell.

Jets, they have a talented QB now but they don't have much else. I mean, drafting a QB now, what's that guy really going to do? He's going to die a slow bleedout death, just like all the rest of the Jets QBs have, thus far. To me, makes more sense for them to either trade out, which could mean a team trading up for QB or it could mean taking a cornerstone player like Sewell (if he's there), Parsons etc. I'm not sure they take QB. I could see Jags taking Lawrence and Jets taking Sewell. That would make more sense to me.

Miami has Tua, Grier isn't going to draft another QB and basically admit that he screwed up the tip 5 pick from 2020 unless they intend to trade Tua and then, they aren't getting premium value for him. They won't even get fair value for him because they spent a top 5 to get him and they won't get that back. They might not get a 1st. I think they might consider WR or go OL. This could be the trade down spot here because there are a lot of WRs in this group and the OT position after Sewell really starts at 11 down IMO.

Falcons need a QB. I think they take one for sure.

Cincy isn't taking a QB.

Philly isn't taking a QB. Pederson just got cut loose because he wanted Hurts and his GM wanted Wentz. Wentz is the GMs guy so they aren't taking a QB plus, I think Hurts is gone in Philly.

Lions, I don't know if they take a QB this year. I mean, yeah they need to start thinking about it but see, they are one of those teams that went along with the "Pay the man" ideology early on. They are stuck with a 20 mil cap hit if they move on now. Makes more sense, to me, to look at taking another postion, maybe WR, and looking at a QB next year for cap purposes. Now, if they could figure out a trade, that might work. For example, say a trade for a younger QB that they might be willing to pay big money for, like Dak. Detroit will pay that guy because they aren't good and they are more interested in putting butts in the stands then actually winning. They would pay Dak. If they would trade Stafford and their 8 for Dak, I would do that deal in a second. That deal would work for everybody. Gives Detroit their young experienced QB. Gives Dak and his agent the deal they want. Lets Stafford come home to close out his career. Gives Dallas the Bridge QB, with cap relief, and gives them two top 10 picks in this draft, gives them position to take one of the top young signal callers or room to trade up or down and work the draft for defense. That, to me, is the perfect deal for all parties. JMO

Carolina, I don't know that they go QB. I mean, anything is possible but I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a TE. They need one bad, they would be taking a top 5 player in this draft and probably top 3 player if they took Pitts from Florida.

Broncos, I think they like their QB a lot more then a lot of fans think they do. Will they take a QB? IDK if they do. I mean, if they were picking Lawrence, I think they would but they won't be so the will be looking at whomever is left. I think they really like Wilson but I think that kid is going to whichever team trades up with whomever. I think he's the second QB taken in this draft. I think Fields is not going to be as hot as he was a few weeks ago and then you got Trey Lance. Does he fit that Offense and does Elway like him? That's the kicker, right there. If they take a QB, Elway has to love that guy. I think they take Defense all the way. Edge rusher, they could look at one of the CBs here as well.

Then there's us. I think three QBs are gone by now. I think one of the top 4 is still on the board if we want one here. But honestly, I think this pick is Defense unless we can make a trade. This pick should be LT IMO but the new DC will get this draft to fix the D IMO.

Sorry. Don’t see 4 QBs lasting past 10. Too much value there. Someone will trade up.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Josh Allen is absolutely elite this year. He should be added to any list with Mahomes and Rodgers, he’s earned it.

Tonights game will say a lot about whether he os elite or not

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You rocked it bro.
No body else on "that" side comes close to your balance of respectful debate.
Thanks again for replying and being very detailed in your breakdown of support.
I may not fully ever come over to the pro Dak side as I still see the same Miss. State QB a tad more often thru my lenses than you do but it is always refreshing to read your reasoning and comprehensive logic behind your support.
To read the nonsensical phone staring self professed stats analytic expert drivel has long since played itself out.
You should be the Zone's singular mouthpiece/spokesperson to explain Prescott's performances from the positive side of the aisle.
I respect your opinion bro.

highly appreciate the complements. right back at you. I enjoy the exchange of thoughts and ideas, I respect your thoughtful, well represented responses. perhaps I have slid a little to the left LOL

didn't you have a birthday party to go to?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

And this one, ignorant, statement is all the reason to know Nickelodeon is probably your favorite channel. Noting how everybody and their grandpa has made mincemeat on your pro Dak schtick on the zone, I'm guessing you're more of Sponge Bob square[ants type.

you know what they say. when you start to throw insults, its that you feel you have lost the argument, so you try to escalate to a non-win situation....

when did you feel you lost the argument?

 

[Rockport]

And a losing record since becoming a pass happy first team behind Dak.

Yeah, too bad Dak doesn’t play defense.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah, too bad Dak doesn’t play defense.

we have to improve our defensive draft. we keep missing defensive draftee after defensive draftee, risking, reaching and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. if we can't address that. we won't have a chance of winning anything. even Mahomes and KC offense wouldn't be able to save this franchise then.

 

[75boyz]

highly appreciate the complements. right back at you. I enjoy the exchange of thoughts and ideas, I respect your thoughtful, well represented responses. perhaps I have slid a little to the left LOL

didn't you have a birthday party to go to?

Thanks again, same to you but unfortunately this Grandpa can't attend this year. Appreciate ya

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Thanks again, same to you but unfortunately this Grandpa can't attend this year. Appreciate ya

sorry to hear that....did you at least get to do some facetime with your little sweetie?

 

[TwentyOne]

TLDR: Letting Dak walk hurts this franchise a lot more than it helps us, in both the short and long term.

I have gone back and forth on the Dak-Dilemma for months. I am not a Dak hater. I consider myself a Dak-realist. He is not "elite" in my opinion (Mahommes, Rodgers are the only 2 QBs this year that qualify as elite in my estimation). Nor is he "mediocre" or "average" as many on this site claim. He is good. At times, he is really good. At other times, his play is borderline average.

And so we have arrived at a crossroads. To pay or not to pay? 2 years ago-- fans were arguing on whether or not he was worth 30 mil per year. Many said "not worth more than 25". Then Wentz and Goff signed-- and the needle moved to 34-35 mil per, and the counter was "not worth more 30". Then Mahommes and Watson signed, and the conversation is now 40 mil per and the counter is now "not worth more than 35". The simple truth is the QB market has been drastically reset over the past 2 years, and the cost of good QB play has significantly risen. Had we signed Dak 2 years ago for 30 mil, we would be in the middle of a sweetheart of a deal. But I digress....

If you let him walk... you gain cap space, yes-- but what do you lose? I've been thinking about the following items:

1. Fractured Locker-room. The players love him. He is the unquestioned leader and this is "Dak's team". If we choose to not pay him, the move will NOT be well received by the players and a riff occurs and eyebrows are raised. Add to that the pressure you put on Dak's replacement to fill his shoes on the field, and with his buddies off it-- and you have a bad situation ready to explode.

2. You lose top 10 level QB play on the field. No-- he is not top 3. But he is not middling either. IMO-- he is trending up, and his quality of play is top 10 in the NFL-- and that will win a lot of games. If you let him leave-- how do you replace his production?

3. Leadership intangibles. Related to point #1 for sure-- but Dak may have the best leadership skill of any QB in the NFL right now. Yes, Rodgers is a HOF player, but some of his teammates hate the guy. Mahommes is a stud and well-liked-- but Dak just is a natural born leader. He says the right things. He does the right things. He is football smart, but he has a high emotional IQ as well. Yes, you could trade up to draft a rookie-- but what you might gain (stress "might") in the football talent category, you more than likely lose a TON when it comes to leadership and "face of the franchise" factor.

4. You stand to lose Rep/Cred. If you let Dak walk, and he gets signed by another team, and hoists a Lombardi-- you will forever be the FO that "couldn't get a deal done with a high caliber franchise QB". Ouch. This franchise is already a laughing stock-- but that would take things to a new low-- especially if the "solution" they bring in to replace Dak doesn't pan out.

Therefore-- the best thing for the entire franchise is to sign Dak to a 4-5 year deal. We will overpay. But the number most fans are comfortable with paying him has already moved from 25 million per year 2 years ago, to 35 million per year now. As a fan-- Are you really willing to let him walk and potentially suffer the fallout over a 5 million per year difference?

Letting Dak walk will be a rejuvination of this franchise.

If you think else get a good education.
And i dont mean anything that is assotiated within the U.S.

 

[75boyz]

sorry to hear that....did you at least get to do some facetime with your little sweetie?

I can honestly say the party venue is in a very rural location(out in the sticks, lol) and reception is unreliable at best. Not to worry, plenty more in store. Have a good one.