The Cost of Not Signing Dak (lengthy)

[jjktkk]

you know what they say. when you start to throw insults, [ /QUOTE]

what does watching NFL football have to do with contract negotiations...you are utterly confused....

Dak has all the leverage.

son, nice attempt. but a big fat fail..[ /QUOTE]

why does Dak need a change of scenery? because of fans posts on Fanzone!!.[

No insults huh?

 

[CowboyRoy]

People sleep on #3 way too often. All of his teammates rally around him and say he is "special". So not only would letting him go be dumb from a team building perspective, it would make the other guys in the locker room angry that Dak's gone, and wonder if Dak can't get a contract after all he's done then what does that mean for them? I feel like people also fail to acknowledge that while Dak's game does have faults he's been consistently improving every year as a passer and with his accuracy. I don't follow other teams like I do the Cowboys but I don't feel like I see many other QB's improve somewhat drastically from year to year like Dak has.

I'm legitimately shocked every time I get on this message board at the number of people who are big enough Cowboys fans to find this message board and create an account and post almost daily who seriously think this team should move on from Dak and can somehow win a championship with some random QB like Dalton or let Dak go and just pray we draft a good one. We got lucky with Dak. I'm not willing to roll the dice again, especially when this offense can be lethal if everyone is healthy.

Nothing more than small mental midgets that don’t have the ability to admit they were horribly wrong about dak.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You’ve already been told what happened to France and why, did you skip that part? Anyways, are you familiar with the length of contract, guaranteed money and how the money was distributed? No, you’re not. So you have no idea what the actual hold up was and whether it was all France or Dak or both.

Your blindness take you to new levels. When it was reported that Prescott and Jones agreed on the 35 mil a year salary but didn't get the contract length and guaranteed money done, they didn't specify much on the particulars of those two so like everyone else we know very little about those. What we do know though is that since Prescott was doing his own negotiating during that last hour or so that it was Prescott who was not agreeing to the length and guaranteed amounts. The facts about France's demise with CAA has been tried to be changed by the Prescott haters. During the negotiations CAA had let France know that they didn't like how he was handling the negotiations. So France, like most people when they know they are on shaky ground with their boss and send out feelers and resumes to other companies, France sent out a feeler to Atlanta First a couple weeks later July 15th came and went and CAA then fired France. France then went to the Atlanta First and worked out him joining them. The point that the Prescott haters don't get or admit is it wasn't until after CAA let France know that they were not happy with how he was handling Prescott's negotiations and on shaky ground that he then sent out feelers to Atlanta First.
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[Hadenough]

4 out of 5 QBs in the first round fail and are average at best...so you said 4 QBs in the top 10.....which 3 do you pick to be failures? Lawrence? Fields? Wilson? other?

I think that depends on the QB class that comes out. The thing about the QB position is there are years where QBs are taken in the first round just because they are in such demand. There will always be a high failure rate at QB position. The other question is how do you define failure?

 

[gjkoeppen]

Other players have been paid. Prescott gets paid and players will be talking in the locker room how there is no money for them. They will also be saying how can this team get any better when they are up against the salary cap because Dak is getting paid MORE than market value.

It's funny, not ha ha funny, that people keep changing "market value" to fit what they are trying to say. First there's the the truth that market value for players goes up every year, especially for QB's. Then there's the Prescott haters that say he should only get less than what other QB's are getting who's contracts were signed in previous years when the market value was lower. Then there is this past year when the market value rose again just like every year and people like you who are saying that Prescott will sign for more than the market value even though the market value is now what France was demanding for Prescott based on what other QB's signed for this past year. Here's a little tidbit you forgot when you made you claim that what Prescott signs for will be more than the CURRENT market value. In the final hour or so on July 15th Prescott was doing his own negotiating and he and Jones agreed to 35 mil a year but could not agree on the length and guaranteed amount. The point here is that 35 mil is actually less than the CURRENT market value. There are other players who have large contracts compared to what others in their positions make so are all those team mates just as angry at those players as you think they are with Prescott. Elliot, Cooper, Lawrence, are they questioning those contract too that have a big impact on the cap?
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[diamonddelts]

The only thing letting Dak walk does is gets us closer to getting back to a Super Bowl.

Don't get high on your own supply.

 

[aria]

Your blindness take you to new levels. When it was reported that Prescott and Jones agreed on the 35 mil a year salary but didn't get the contract length and guaranteed money done, they didn't specify much on the particulars of those two so like everyone else we know very little about those. What we do know though is that since Prescott was doing his own negotiating during that last hour or so that it was Prescott who was not agreeing to the length and guaranteed amounts. The facts about France's demise with CAA has been tried to be changed by the Prescott haters. During the negotiations CAA had let France know that they didn't like how he was handling the negotiations. So France, like most people when they know they are on shaky ground with their boss and send out feelers and resumes to other companies, France sent out a feeler to Atlanta First a couple weeks later July 15th came and went and CAA then fired France. France then went to the Atlanta First and worked out him joining them. The point that the Prescott haters don't get or admit is it wasn't until after CAA let France know that they were not happy with how he was handling Prescott's negotiations and on shaky ground that he then sent out feelers to Atlanta First.
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That’s great and all but one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone accuses me of something I never said or in this case even implied. It makes it that much worse when someone uses something I never said to try and prove a point as you did.

I want to clear this up before I even go any further. You accused me of wanting Jerry to not sign Dak and when I asked where I ever said or implied that you conveniently never answered.

Did you think you could just make a fictitious accusation about me, to try and support your argument, and I would just let it go?

So again, where did I ever say or imply I didn’t want Dak to get a contract with the Cowboys?

 

[DandyDon52]

We could have had Dak for like 28 mil a year about 3 seasons ago. Now that Watson has signed a 40 mil a year contract Dak's representation can legitimately ask for the same contract because their careers almost mirror each other.

Jerry & Stephen messed this up and therefore messed up the salary cap. We do need Dak and this past season made that obvious to anyone dead or alive.

it takes 2 to make a deal, and dak has turned down all offers, so saying they could have had him at 28 is pure speculation, and probably false.
I think dak intended all along to play on tag twice then get a big deal. Just imo.

Now your saying jones boys should to correct the first mistake of not getting dak signed earlier, to making another mistake and over pay him on a short deal ??

We do need Dak and this past season made that obvious to anyone dead or alive........sure they probably would have made playoffs in this really bad division.
But then would be eliminated quickly. So what good would dak have really done ?? not much, just make the team draft in a lower position.

Dak isnt going to lead this team to a SB, he isnt good enough, and the team isnt good enough.
Even if dallas traded dak for mahomes or rodgers, dallas still wont make it to a SB.

Dak will provide more entertainment, so if thats why you want to pay him 40 mil a year then fine pay him.

I think they will sign him unless dak wants to play on the tag again, and I hope they do because
1. he is entertaining
2. they are likely to get into playoffs, which is fun even if they are one and done.
3.it means jones boys will never get a SB trophy, and probably not past the div round in near future. I like that.
4.it means I get to see them looking all depressed in the booth during losses.
5.it means they will be hard pressed to sign future good players, and limited to cheap def FA so no great defense can be built.

Dallas will suffer same fate as houston lol signed watson, couldnt afford hopkins and could not even make the playoffs.
They have their qb, but what good does it do them?? nothing just more entertaining, and for houston they were not even that entertaining.

At the first of year dak managed 17 points against a good rams defense, after that they played some weak defensive teams and scored a lot,
and a lot of yds passing , # 1 offense but lost every game except the atlanta miracle game. and that is what dallas will be in near future.
They will do good against the weaker teams, then fold in playoffs when facing the actual good teams.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

so saying you are confused is an insult? really...you are confused

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think that depends on the QB class that comes out. The thing about the QB position is there are years where QBs are taken in the first round just because they are in such demand. There will always be a high failure rate at QB position. The other question is how do you define failure?

yes, it varies. some years is a total miss. some years you get 50%. but over time its about 4 out of 5. and every year, there are 100s of fans that swear by this QB and by that QB....ala @CATCH17.....he didn't like mahomes or watson, yet some of the other he thought would be good NFL QBs, never made it into their first season....so this year is no different. the highest rated one this year is Lawrence and he is not a can't miss prospect like Luck, Manning or Aikman. Fields has warts, and comes from a school that has had bad NFL QBs....WIlson is got lots of question marks.....so chances of hitting on one is low. never fails. even at 50%, its low....should you then never draft a QB? no, that's not what I am saying. but when you have a good one, why go fishing and gambling.

 

[DandyDon52]

How was he being greedy?

Comparing Mahomes deal is night v day and that deal will get changed well before the 5th year, if he continues playing as he is. Taking 45M off the cap is hardly helping his team but he understands that Hill and Kelce are just as important to his success and without Reid, he is not that superstar we see.

Why is Prescott greedy and the others aren't?

First many of the NFL players are greedy, it isnt just Dak.
What says to me he was greedy, was insisting on a 4 year deal. The only reason to do that is greed.
It is also ok for me Comparing Mahomes deal, because the point is his long deal helps his team.
He could have been the same as dak and said no I want a 4 year deal, and get another big contract in 4 years, and what could they do?
But no he said 45 mil a year is enough for me, and signed the unheard of long deal of 10 years which is really helpful to KC and their cap mgmt.
And 5 years from now 45 mil a year will be a bargain for mahomes, depending on what actually happens to the cap.

IMO the cap isnt going to go up till maybe around 2023 , it will go down for 21, and stay down for 22.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

it takes 2 to make a deal, and dak has turned down all offers, so saying they could have had him at 28 is pure speculation, and probably false.
I think dak intended all along to play on tag twice then get a big deal. Just imo.

Now your saying jones boys should to correct the first mistake of not getting dak signed earlier, to making another mistake and over pay him on a short deal ??

We do need Dak and this past season made that obvious to anyone dead or alive........sure they probably would have made playoffs in this really bad division.
But then would be eliminated quickly. So what good would dak have really done ?? not much, just make the team draft in a lower position.

Dak isnt going to lead this team to a SB, he isnt good enough, and the team isnt good enough.
Even if dallas traded dak for mahomes or rodgers, dallas still wont make it to a SB.

Dak will provide more entertainment, so if thats why you want to pay him 40 mil a year then fine pay him.

I think they will sign him unless dak wants to play on the tag again, and I hope they do because
1. he is entertaining
2. they are likely to get into playoffs, which is fun even if they are one and done.
3.it means jones boys will never get a SB trophy, and probably not past the div round in near future. I like that.
4.it means I get to see them looking all depressed in the booth during losses.
5.it means they will be hard pressed to sign future good players, and limited to cheap def FA so no great defense can be built.

Dallas will suffer same fate as houston lol signed watson, couldnt afford hopkins and could not even make the playoffs.
They have their qb, but what good does it do them?? nothing just more entertaining, and for houston they were not even that entertaining.

At the first of year dak managed 17 points against a good rams defense, after that they played some weak defensive teams and scored a lot,
and a lot of yds passing , # 1 offense but lost every game except the atlanta miracle game. and that is what dallas will be in near future.
They will do good against the weaker teams, then fold in playoffs when facing the actual good teams.

I doubt it....I think the 28 mill is exagerated as I thought the numbers were less and Jones' were trying to outsmart the market....but even if at the time he would have signed for 30, people would blow their top, but 30 is way below market and a bargain today....so its all relative to the market.Dak bet on himself. good for him to have the confidence to do that...he bet that he will improve, get beter and be a top 10 QB. good for him to do that....and who are we to argue if he did that to set himself and his family up for generations to come....you can't fault him for that.....he puts his health on the line, so he wants paid. no he doesn't have to play football. but he does. and just like we saw, one play and his career could be over.

and Dak gives this team the best chance to get to the superbowl. that's what every team strives to have, is a QB that gives them the best chance.

btw, Rodgers, who everyone clamours for. calls Elite (including me), hasn't been to the superbowl in 10 years. neither has Roth. or Brees. wilson is now 6 years removed now that he doesn't have legion of boom and strong running game. am I comparing Dak to those? no. I am just stating facts. would you not take any of those QBs in Dallas?

 

[CouchCoach]

They could try that but then they would have to like the QBs that are left on the board and we don't know who that might be right? So yeah, they could try and do that but there is no guarantee there. So is it better to draft that guy or is it better to trade for a guy like Dak, who is young and has experience. A known quantity, if you will? IDK......

They're going to be in rebuild mode with a new coaching staff anyway and Stafford probably wants out to at least have a shot before his career is over.

The Lions need to re-fire the fanbase up like they're seeing in BUF and CLE.

 

[gjkoeppen]

yes, it varies. some years is a total miss. some years you get 50%. but over time its about 4 out of 5. and every year, there are 100s of fans that swear by this QB and by that QB....ala @CATCH17.....he didn't like mahomes or watson, yet some of the other he thought would be good NFL QBs, never made it into their first season....so this year is no different. the highest rated one this year is Lawrence and he is not a can't miss prospect like Luck, Manning or Aikman. Fields has warts, and comes from a school that has had bad NFL QBs....WIlson is got lots of question marks.....so chances of hitting on one is low. never fails. even at 50%, its low....should you then never draft a QB? no, that's not what I am saying. but when you have a good one, why go fishing and gambling.

I'm not saying Lawrence is going to be a bust. Chance are he'll do good, but every year when I hear the sporting world rave about a or more than one QB going in the draft I immediately think of one year when the sporting world was just raving about two QB's and how they were the best QB's to go into the draft in a long time. The one they thought would go with the 1st pick actually went with the 2nd pick. The 1st pick was Peyton Manning and the 2nd pick, the one they thought would go #1 was Ryan Leaf.
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[DandyDon52]

all of them are greedy specially for their first contract.....we can say, he quietly played and improved and led this team on a 4th rounder contract. never holding out (ala zeke). contract discussions are business. and business is business and you can't get emotional about business. Even Brady got top contract after his rookie year. its only after that he gave friendly hometown discount. plus Brady's wife is super loaded, so his situation is different than others.

and Mahomes signed a 10 year 500M contract. the average is above today's 35-38M and now 40M QB market. but in the future 50M will be a bargain. plus, I am sure it will get reworked, multiple time and will end up being a bargain. and plus, outside of mahome, a generational talent, the rest are on 3,4 year contract. his 10 year contract was not the norm. it was the exception.

Plus, you have to remember, wilson, goff, wentz, mahomes all signed a new contract while they were under contract, so in essence they got a boat load of money a year or two in advance of their contract ending.....that's bonus money. I rather have cash today, than two years from now....from a "business" perspective I take money up front, deliver later any day of the week.
Dak's contract had ended and thus negotiations were different.

I also think Jerry made a fundamental mistake. Jerry wanted a 5th year, mostly to have a lot of cap room available in 2024 and also for cap manipulation....he could have given Dak his 4 year deal, pay out less money (5 year deal had more gauranteed money) and give himself an out in case it didn't work out, with less headache and if it did work out, then he could have just tagged Dak in 2024, which would have been calculated based on 2023 salaries and in essence still have a good deal on his QB....it would have been a win win, the money would have been similar (given I expected them to rework the contract for cap management).

I disagree that Dak doesn't want to win a superbowl. that's a trollish conjecture on your part. and do you seriously believe that if Jerry doesn't Tag Dak, he won't go to another team? he will just come back and say give me the money?

it takes 2 to make a deal, and dak has turned down all offers,
I think dak intended all along to play on tag twice then get a big deal. Just imo.

Dak isnt going to lead this team to a SB, he isnt good enough, and the team isnt good enough.
Even if dallas traded dak for mahomes or rodgers, dallas still wont make it to a SB.

Dak will provide more entertainment, so if thats why you want to pay him 40 mil a year then fine pay him.

See post 311 and 308 for more of my views.
about bradys wife, she wasnt making that much when they married, she got the big contracts after she married him because it made her more famous.
Fame , in the news, = more money for her in contracts.
Plus once a player has 10 mil in the bank, wanting more than that is just greed. There are varying levels of greed, not just one.
jerry is on a high level of greed lol. He has billions, but he wants more for no reason in particular lol.

Dak and his 4 year deal was pure greed, he wanted more in 4 years, he wasnt satisfied with 35 mil a year for 5 years, and that is greed , no matter how u
look at it.
Most sane people who actually exist in reality would have taken the deal jerry offered, that is plenty of money, more than u could spend.
Most people could live very well on 175 million for rest of their lives, but not dak ! not some of these other bozo's

Dak and SB, we differ here, sure dak wants to win a SB, they all do, but it is a very low priority, the main thing is the money and living like a king, being
glorified, the women, the cars, all that stuff is more important to dak and many of todays nfl players.
Thats why the nfl isnt as good as it used to be. It is all about self glorification and big stacks of money, and yeah if they can win a SB that is cool too.

 

[CouchCoach]

First many of the NFL players are greedy, it isnt just Dak.
What says to me he was greedy, was insisting on a 4 year deal. The only reason to do that is greed.
It is also ok for me Comparing Mahomes deal, because the point is his long deal helps his team.
He could have been the same as dak and said no I want a 4 year deal, and get another big contract in 4 years, and what could they do?
But no he said 45 mil a year is enough for me, and signed the unheard of long deal of 10 years which is really helpful to KC and their cap mgmt.
And 5 years from now 45 mil a year will be a bargain for mahomes, depending on what actually happens to the cap.

IMO the cap isnt going to go up till maybe around 2023 , it will go down for 21, and stay down for 22.

Greedy denotes selfishness and I don't see that with every player looking out for himself. He is not taking money out of any other player's pocket and every team has to let players go because of the cap. It is not the job of any player to help his team do their job. Cap management takes planning and self discipline and the Cowboys have neither. That is hardly Prescott's or Lawrence or Cooper or Elliott's fault or responsibility. It is only a team sport on the field.

I can't speak to how any player views his value to his team but some felt Laveon Bell was being greedy when in fact he accounted for 40% of his team's offense, he wanted what he saw as his perceived value to the success of his team.

 

[gjkoeppen]

it takes 2 to make a deal, and dak has turned down all offers,
I think dak intended all along to play on tag twice then get a big deal. Just imo.

Dak isnt going to lead this team to a SB, he isnt good enough, and the team isnt good enough.
Even if dallas traded dak for mahomes or rodgers, dallas still wont make it to a SB.

Dak will provide more entertainment, so if thats why you want to pay him 40 mil a year then fine pay him.

See post 311 and 308 for more of my views.
about bradys wife, she wasnt making that much when they married, she got the big contracts after she married him because it made her more famous.
Fame , in the news, = more money for her in contracts.
Plus once a player has 10 mil in the bank, wanting more than that is just greed. There are varying levels of greed, not just one.
jerry is on a high level of greed lol. He has billions, but he wants more for no reason in particular lol.

Dak and his 4 year deal was pure greed, he wanted more in 4 years, he wasnt satisfied with 35 mil a year for 5 years, and that is greed , no matter how u
look at it.
Most sane people who actually exist in reality would have taken the deal jerry offered, that is plenty of money, more than u could spend.
Most people could live very well on 175 million for rest of their lives, but not dak ! not some of these other bozo's

Dak and SB, we differ here, sure dak wants to win a SB, they all do, but it is a very low priority, the main thing is the money and living like a king, being
glorified, the women, the cars, all that stuff is more important to dak and many of todays nfl players.
Thats why the nfl isnt as good as it used to be. It is all about self glorification and big stacks of money, and yeah if they can win a SB that is cool too.

A couple things about what you said. Brady's wife may have started to make the really mega bucks after she married him, I don't know but what is known was the last contract Brady signed with the patriots his wife was making many times more money than he was and so he didn't have to have the mega contract.

Second I find it funny, not ha ha funny, that when looking at it from the teams side of things it's just business but from the player's side it's not just business but it's greed. Why shouldn't players be able to do what they think is best for them and their families without it being called greedy. Why is it fair that every player that will become a free agent except one on a team can negotiate with as many teams as they wish, but that one can only negotiate with his team.Im don't like the way everything plays out, but players should be able to get as much as they can without being called greedy. If there are two jobs at two different companies and the companies are the same as far as how they treat their employees, being stable companies, hours you would have to work and the job is the same and one company offers a lot more money are you being greedy for taking the better paying job?
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[gjkoeppen]

Greedy denotes selfishness and I don't see that with every player looking out for himself. He is not taking money out of any other player's pocket and every team has to let players go because of the cap. It is not the job of any player to help his team do their job. Cap management takes planning and self discipline and the Cowboys have neither. That is hardly Prescott's or Lawrence or Cooper or Elliott's fault or responsibility. It is only a team sport on the field.

I can't speak to how any player views his value to his team but some felt Laveon Bell was being greedy when in fact he accounted for 40% of his team's offense, he wanted what he saw as his perceived value to the success of his team.

There's no way we can know if any of the players resent Prescott for getting a big contract but what we do know now is this team thinks Prescott is their leader and my guess is they want him back and to be happy and continue to be their leader.
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[CouchCoach]

A couple things about what you said. Brady's wife may have started to make the really mega bucks after she married him, I don't know but what is known was the last contract Brady signed with the patriots his wife was making many times more money than he was and so he didn't have to have the mega contract.

Second I find it funny, not ha ha funny, that when looking at it from the teams side of things it's just business but from the player's side it's not just business but it's greed. Why shouldn't players be able to do what they think is best for them and their families without it being called greedy. Why is it fair that every player that will become a free agent except one on a team can negotiate with as many teams as they wish, but that one can only negotiate with his team.Im don't like the way everything plays out, but players should be able to get as much as they can without being called greedy. If there are two jobs at two different companies and the companies are the same as far as how they treat their employees, being stable companies, hours you would have to work and the job is the same and one company offers a lot more money are you being greedy for taking the better paying job?
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Greed is about selfishness and I do not see this in the NFL or any sport. It is understood that the stars will receive the most money and while they might be envious of that kind of money, do they begrudge the player that? They work for the fat cats that are the epitome of greed.

My grandfather owned a grocery store in East Little Rock when I was growing up and had a sign up behind the cash register that was about greed.

You need yours and I need mine
If we both get ours, that will be fine
But if you get yours and get mine too
What the hell and I going to do?

The game is all about the QB, the owners wanted it that way and 20% or even 25% of the cap is the cost of that. Doesn't mater what Mahomes got or what Prescott will get to the agents of Allen, Jackson or Mayfield. Some think Mahomes sets the ceiling, why? It's not like the GM's of these teams negotiating with these QB agents can sign Mahomes. How valuable is your QB to your franchise? That, is all that matters. I expect Allen and Jackson to get contracts fatter than Mahomes' on an annual basis. They did that 10 year deal to blow it up like Booger did with Aikman's contract.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

First many of the NFL players are greedy, it isnt just Dak.
What says to me he was greedy, was insisting on a 4 year deal. The only reason to do that is greed.
It is also ok for me Comparing Mahomes deal, because the point is his long deal helps his team.
He could have been the same as dak and said no I want a 4 year deal, and get another big contract in 4 years, and what could they do?
But no he said 45 mil a year is enough for me, and signed the unheard of long deal of 10 years which is really helpful to KC and their cap mgmt.
And 5 years from now 45 mil a year will be a bargain for mahomes, depending on what actually happens to the cap.

IMO the cap isnt going to go up till maybe around 2023 , it will go down for 21, and stay down for 22.

so he is greedy to ask for a 4 year deal and less moneym instead of a 5 year deal and more money....your definition of greedy is warped.

and Mahomes deal is unprecedented in the NFL. you don't think that deal will be redone at some point? its just ensuring KC has mahomes for most of his career. Mahomes will end up with more moeny. Mahomes deal is close to 50M/year....and lets not lose sight of 500M vs. 175M.....quite a bit of difference and money involved. Watson is averaging about 40M....that's about where the market for top 10 QBs are....you don't like it go watch NBA, where bench players make 10-12M a year. or baseball, where they hand out 10 year 500M gauranteed contracts (10 years ago)....

the cap only went down for 2021, because of Covid and lack of stadium attendence. once we get back on track with attendance cap will automatically go up. is it going to go to full attendance next year? we don't know, but it will be more than this year. and 2023, 2024 will probably end up normal to where the cap was supposed to be and projected to be.

now, if Dak says give me a 10 year 400M deal. would you object? 5 years from now 40M will be a bargain....and its 20% below mahomes money....