The Cowboys and 2015 Cap Options

[casmith07]

Dallas should be able to do what they want. But i dont expect them to go out and spend big. Seems like theyre building something in Dallas for the long haul and not yr to yr. With Crawford coming along the way he is, instead of spending 9mil on Melton i wouldnt mind the team using that money on a player like suh. He plays a 1 tech type and does it great. Has that attitude too. Imagine him and Ro in the middle. thats an intimidating picture

I don't want Suh. He doesn't seem like a guy who would buy into the culture change and long term plan of this organization.

 

[Vinnie2u]

jterrell actually thinks that Mo is the best cover corner on the team.

Really?

 

[Galian Beast]

This ironically was the laziest thing I've ever seen.

It's one thing to restructure Smith, but restructuring Romo at this point is pretty poor accounting.

You mention resigning Dez and Murray, but you don't go into how much you would have to pay them to re-sign them. Least of all to mention resigning McClain and Carter.

You also haven't addressed the cost of replacing Melton and Free, nor have you brought up any activity in free agency next year.

You've cut Carr, and now you still have to replace him against the cap.

And no you can't restructure rookie deals... Not unless you're extending their contracts.

 

[TheFinisher]

Franchise QBs don't take paycuts bro

Romo will be more than happy to convert salary to bonus that can then be prorated but he ain't taking a pay cut

Tom Brady is making half of what Romo is going to make next season. Romo's cap number next season is wayyyy above the going rate for good QBs.

The contract we gave him was insane, and if he wants to win and keep the young guys around that number needs to be chopped down. Not restructured by pushing that guaranteed money off to future years, but chopped down.

Be a real shame if we couldn't keep the young nucleus we have in tact going forward because of Romo's insane contract. He doesn't need to be making almost 30 million next year.

 

[Galian Beast]

Tom Brady is making half of what Romo is going to make next season. Romo's cap number next season is wayyyy above the going rate for good QBs.

The contract we gave him was insane, and if he wants to win and keep the young guys around that number needs to be chopped down. Not restructured by pushing that guaranteed money off to future years, but chopped down.

Be a real shame if we couldn't keep the young nucleus we have in tact going forward because of Romo's insane contract. He doesn't need to be making almost 30 million next year.

This is filled with inaccuracies. The reality is Tony Romo's contract was very reasonable, though I do hope he does take a paycut. I think Romo should realize that by taking a paycut now, he may make a lot more money in the long run of his life. The money he can make as a super bowl winning QB will more than make up for what he loses in base salary. I think he will do it. If he will take a large enough pay cut we can really help this defense next year become a force to be reckoned with.

The idea of restructuring Romo's contract at this point makes little sense though. As it will certainly make it more difficult to manage his contract in future years. He can't take a pay cut on restructured salary. Pushing money into future years is not a wise investment for this young team either.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This ironically was the laziest thing I've ever seen.

It's one thing to restructure Smith, but restructuring Romo at this point is pretty poor accounting.

You mention resigning Dez and Murray, but you don't go into how much you would have to pay them to re-sign them. Least of all to mention resigning McClain and Carter. Petulance is for children.

You also haven't addressed the cost of replacing Melton and Free, nor have you brought up any activity in free agency next year.

You've cut Carr, and now you still have to replace him against the cap.

And no you can't restructure rookie deals... Not unless you're extending their contracts.

Lazy? Like saying that Witten needed to be cut to keep Murray with nothing behind it much less what you are calling for here? I guess it's okay to expect more analysis from me but you can provide much much less and that is valid?

So because I did not guess on what it would take to sign players that means that my comments on the amount that we can free up is invalid? I don't think so.

You can beg the question but that is not an argument.

Crawford, Bishop, Coleman, Okoye, and McClain are all under contract. We don't need Melton especially not at that price.

I said Free needs to take a paycut and play at his current salary ie cut his salary in half. He has done it before so its not a stretch that he do it again. That does not require replacing him. Failing that we can move Martin over and sign a quality guard for $4m AAV.

Scandrick, Moore, Claiborne and Patmon are under contract. I'm actually on the fence about cutting Carr because we only get ~$750k savings and it has to be a June cut. Fine, we keep him and still have $34m in cap space.

You can backload contracts such that the first year is 1/5 of the AAV. I don't think that prudent but I think half the AAV is reasonable. That means we can sign $68m worth of AAV. We can give Dez $14m AAV, Carter and McClain $6m AAV, Murray $7m AAV, Harris $4m and fit it all in full AAV accounted. We can franchise Dez or Demarco if we want too.

$34m is a ton of room and we only have two large contracts were beholden to, three if you include Carr. That is my point.

 

[Galian Beast]

Lazy? Like saying that Witten needed to be cut to keep Murray with nothing behind it much less what you are calling for here? I guess it's okay to expect more analysis from me but you can provide much much less and that is valid?

So because I did not guess on what it would take to sign players that means that my comments on the amount that we can free up is invalid? I don't think so.

You can beg the question but that is not an argument.

Crawford, Bishop, Coleman, Okoye, and McClain are all under contract. We don't need Melton especially not at that price.

I said Free needs to take a paycut and play at his current salary ie cut his salary in half. He has done it before so its not a stretch that he do it again. That does not require replacing him. Failing that we can move Martin over and sign a quality guard for $4m AAV.

Scandrick, Moore, Claiborne and Patmon are under contract. I'm actually on the fence about cutting Carr because we only get ~$750k savings and it has to be a June cut. Fine, we keep him and still have $34m in cap space.

You can backload contracts such that the first year is 1/5 of the AAV. I don't think that prudent but I think half the AAV is reasonable. That means we can sign $68m worth of AAV. We can give Dez $14m AAV, Carter and McClain $6m AAV, Murray $7m AAV, Harris $4m and fit it all in full AAV accounted. We can franchise Dez or Demarco if we want too.

$34m is a ton of room and we only have two large contracts were beholden to, three if you include Carr. That is my point.

Because it doesn't take a lot of analysis to understand that we're right up against the cap, especially after signing Dez which will seemingly take quite a bit. We're entirely too heavy on offense when it comes to the cap.

None of the players you mentioned on the defensive line have been proven themselves to at any time be an impact player... Not sure if we'll keep Melton, but he may be our best option if he returns to form. That will put a lot of stress on the salary cap though. Replacing him, which we'll need to do will either take resources in the draft or salary cap in free agency.

Free fought pretty hard against taking that initial salary cut. Will he do it again, hopefully, but he may not. That still won't clear enough space to effectively help this defense. Signing a guard for 4 million leaves us at a status quo in terms of cost, minus proration from cutting Free.

Your entire argument is that we should mortgage the future to keep players like Witten at their current compensation. It's a terrible argument.

 

[jterrell]

jterrell actually thinks that Mo is the best cover corner on the team.

Yes, I do. But that's still far away from him being our best corner.
I do think he has the most upside and there's no way I'd give up on him to watch him excel elsewhere on a team friendly deal.

Jerry mentioned he got a lot of calls when it was announced they were benching him.
You can bet some were from GMs willing to take on the problem child to "help us out".

The same people hating Mo now hated Scandrick and his 25m deal a couple years ago.
It's all perspective.

 

[jterrell]

Tom Brady is making half of what Romo is going to make next season. Romo's cap number next season is wayyyy above the going rate for good QBs.

The contract we gave him was insane, and if he wants to win and keep the young guys around that number needs to be chopped down. Not restructured by pushing that guaranteed money off to future years, but chopped down.

Be a real shame if we couldn't keep the young nucleus we have in tact going forward because of Romo's insane contract. He doesn't need to be making almost 30 million next year.

Sigh....

Romo will get handed his 15-16m next year (7.5m is guaranteed anyway).
He'll then cost us about 15-17M in cap hit which is about 10th in the league.
It is expensive but it is also the going rate.
He has the 8th highest paying contract among QBs.
Which is about where he ranks IMHO.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Because it doesn't take a lot of analysis to understand that we're right up against the cap, especially after signing Dez which will seemingly take quite a bit. We're entirely too heavy on offense when it comes to the cap.

None of the players you mentioned on the defensive line have been proven themselves to at any time be an impact player... Not sure if we'll keep Melton, but he may be our best option if he returns to form. That will put a lot of stress on the salary cap though. Replacing him, which we'll need to do will either take resources in the draft or salary cap in free agency.

Free fought pretty hard against taking that initial salary cut. Will he do it again, hopefully, but he may not. That still won't clear enough space to effectively help this defense. Signing a guard for 4 million leaves us at a status quo in terms of cost, minus proration from cutting Free.

Your entire argument is that we should mortgage the future to keep players like Witten at their current compensation. It's a terrible argument.

My entire argument is that Witten is worth the $5m salary he is scheduled to make. if you want to go back to 2011 and complain about them signing the deal then then go for it. Its crying over spilled milk in 2014.

Deal with the world as it is and not how you would prefer it to be. Cutting Witten is not going to make the $3m in dead money go away. In fact it is going to accelerate previous restructures.

Complaining about restructuring contracts is a nonstarter. it's not my fault that you don't understand the role interest -or lack thereof- plays in the cliches you roll out regarding the practice.

I have to say that your take that Melton who plays ~25 snaps a game right now and is terrible against the run merits $8m to go along with saying Witten is not worth a $5m salary using the same brain is one of the dumber takes I have experienced.

So go ahead and handwave at sunk costs and TD and pretend I am ignoring it. I'm going back to reviewing the all-22.

 

[Galian Beast]

My entire argument is that Witten is worth the $5m salary he is scheduled to make. if you want to go back to 2011 and complain about them signing the deal then then go for it. Its crying over spilled milk in 2014.

Deal with the world as it is and not how you would prefer it to be. Cutting Witten is not going to make the $3m in dead money go away. In fact it is going to accelerate previous restructures.

Complaining about restructuring contracts is a nonstarter. it's not my fault that you don't understand the role interest -or lack thereof- plays in the cliches you roll out regarding the practice.

I have to say that your take that Melton who plays ~25 snaps a game right now and is terrible against the run merits $8m to go along with saying Witten is not worth a $5m salary using the same brain is one of the dumber takes I have experienced.

So go ahead and handwave at sunk costs and TD and pretend I am ignoring it. I'm going back to reviewing the all-22.

Quote me where I said Melton is currently worth 8 million a year.

You're ignoring the fact that the dead money still stays while Witten stays. Dead money is not a non factor in determining whether you keep a player or not.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Quote me where I said Melton is currently worth 8 million a year.

You're ignoring the fact that the dead money still stays while Witten stays. Dead money is not a non factor in determining whether you keep a player or not.

Read the quote that I quoted in my post where you are arguing for keeping him even if you are ambivalent. You are ambivalent about that but certain that Witten is not worth it?

And if you understand that sunk costs do not matter then why are you repeatedly bringing up that $8m figure?

 

[Galian Beast]

Read the quote that I quoted in my post where you are arguing for keeping him even if you are ambivalent. You are ambivalent about that but certain that Witten is not worth it?

And if you understand that sunk costs do not matter then why are you repeatedly bringing up that $8m figure?

#1 I said we should keep him if he plays up this his potential. If he plays up to his potential he is a young stud defensive tackle that could help be a cornerstone for this defense for years to come. Witten is not the equivalent for this offense.

#2 Dead money DOES matter, not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was agreeing with you. First you can spread the impact of dead money, and you can also write it off completely after two years.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

#1 I said we should keep him if he plays up this his potential. If he plays up to his potential he is a young stud defensive tackle that could help be a cornerstone for this defense for years to come. Witten is not the equivalent for this offense.

#2 Dead money DOES matter, not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was agreeing with you. First you can spread the impact of dead money, and you can also write it off completely after two years.

So then you don't understand the concept of dead money as being a sunk cost. Is there any way to recoup the dead money? No one is saying that it doesn't matter. What I am saying is that there is nothing you can do about it and it remains whether or not he is one the roster.

At this point I am repeating myself because you don't understand the significance and continue the handwaving.

Let me simplify it.

If we pay him the accounting will look like $5.1m + $3.4m dead in 2015 + $1.8m beyond 2015 + pro bowl level of TE play.
If we don't pay him the accounting is $5.2m in dead money - pro bowl level of TE play.

The dead money is in both cases so when comparing the two outcomes it is not a factor. If anything the fact that the status quo postpones cap charges to later years, it is the more desirable than the lump sum.

Again there is no interest so it doesn't matter if you pay it now or pay it later it is the same figure. Inflation remains a reality.

The only difference between the two is Jason Witten and the $5.1m it will cost for his services.

Further here are the 2015 cap figures and cash outlays for TE

http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end/2015/

His cap value is below Gates, Graham, and Gronkowski and within $1m of Lewis, Cook and Olsen. He is clearly being paid no more than fair market value. I wold argue he is underpaid relative to his peers.

 

[AKATheRake]

Carr - Would be wise to restructure and most likely will. He's not going to get even $7 million per when Revis does not even make that.

Free - If we don't want to upgrade would restructure because we value him more than any other team in the league and he knows that as per his last restructure.

Melton - If we wanted to keep him in the rotation and even in the open market will not be in any position to expect $9 million. He will be a FA if we don't come up with a new restructured contract. He's still not fully healthy and certainly will only show what he is capable of by he last quarter of the season. If Crawford can further develop and Brent who would play 1 tech gets back to football starting shape, T. McClain will also be gone. If Henry Melton becomes fully healthy, which he should by end of season and he gets consistent pressure and sacks, he is going to expect to be a starter at 35 snaps a game in a solid rotation like in Chicago's pro bowl season. You don't pay 35 snap players that kind of money and they know it.

 

[AKATheRake]

Regarding Witten and the many things we we require him to do in this offense/production.

He is well worth the $5.1 million.

 

[waving monkey]

Best player available.

we really can do just that now

 

[xwalker]

Quote me where I said Melton is currently worth 8 million a year.

You're ignoring the fact that the dead money still stays while Witten stays. Dead money is not a non factor in determining whether you keep a player or not.

Dead-money is not a factor in determining whether a team keeps or cuts a player. That money hits the cap with or without the player on the roster. It's money that's already spent. They can't un-spend it.

A team that does not push any money forward is operating at a disadvantage relative to teams that do push money forward.

 

[Galian Beast]

Dead-money is not a factor in determining whether a team keeps or cuts a player. That money hits the cap with or without the player on the roster. It's money that's already spent. They can't un-spend it.

A team that does not push any money forward is operating at a disadvantage relative to teams that do push money forward.

Silliest thing I've ever heard.

If the cost to cut a player is as high as it is to keep them, teams more often than not keep the player, especially if they can still contribute.

 

[demdcowboys#1]

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/49155/77/dose-murray-on-record-pace

DeMarco Murray leads the league with his 670 rushing yards. That's 210 more than Le'Veon Bell, who is next closest with his 460 yards on the ground. You have to run a lot to rack up that kind of yardage. And Murray has done just that. He's on pace to carry the rock 416 times, which would tie the all-time record set by Larry Johnson in 2006. That was Johnson's age-26 season. Murray is also in his age-26 season. Following that 2006 campaign when Johnson set records, he never played another full 16-game slate again, never rushed for more than 854 yards in a season, and washed out of the league in 2011. Murray already has an extensive injury history. So, when coach Jason Garrett said on Monday that he plans to scale back Murray's workload, we nodded in agreement for Murray's sake. It's going to be hard for the Cowboys to take their offensive centerpiece off the field, especially if they're going to make a run at the division title, but they can't keep feeding him 26 carries per week if they expect him to last. Look for Murray to still flirt with 22-24 touches weekly and continue his dominance behind one of the league's best offensive lines. But Joseph Randle and Lance Dunbar will have to give Murray breathers. Randle would likely assume early-down duties if Murray were to get hurt, with Dunbar playing in a passing-down role like he's been doing.

What's also of great significance is Murray is in a contract year. The Cowboys have expressed a strong desire through the media that they want to sign him to an extension. And reports are that they've already offered him a new four-year deal worth more than $4 million annually. Murray balked at the offer. He'll continue to bet on himself while the Cowboys run him into the ground. If he finishes the season with upwards of 350-370 carries, the Cowboys very well may franchise-tag Murray. The one-year tag would pay Murray about $9.5 million. But if he plays all 16 games and leads the Cowboys to a winning season, Murray would deserve and earn a long-term deal. It'd be unfortunate for Murray if he were slapped with the tag. We obviously have a long way to go before that. If Murray finishes near the top of the league in rushing and stays healthy,

I just would let him walk

he's not E Smith

You'd let Murray walk? Huh? Have you been watching the same running back as me?