The Dak Prescott Thread **merged**

[65fastback2plus2]

True and I've been critical of Dak. What has allowed defenses to clog the middle of the field is the absence of sideline throws 10-20 yards downfield that forces the D to defend the whole field. Dak had two completions like that last night. He has also bad in 3rd and long and completed a pass that would have moved the chains except for a penalty.

The bottom for Dak is Tim Tebow or RGIII, but with this defense he only needs to be Trent Dilfer, not Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.

No Dez, No Witten, and few preseason reps. It is fair to give a few weeks for the passing game to gel.

So we just forget the abysmal performance last year too...got it.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Jesus, we only consider long bombs when evaluating a QB? That's one heck of a bar to set.

Exactly, however we get the first downs and touchdowns is fine by me. I don't care if he checks down all bloody game as long as it moves the chains. I'm not looking for style points. I'm looking for 6 points at the end of the drive. However that happens is bloody delightful as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

There are just a lot of stupid people here. Ignorance

Jerry is right Dak has been the QB and as long as he’s here he’s going to continue to be the QB. Throws ropes. Doesn’t turn it over. Has star leadership. He was never throwing for 300 last night, they were never letting him.

Exactly, and if "stats" people want to really get a proper view of the game, it's also important to keep these 2 points in mind. His rushing yards as I'd imagine that was a lot with how much he ran (which got the receivers open mind you), and the score of 20-13 (would've been 20-10 if Jarwin fell on the ball).

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The WR personnel is kind of weird right now. Beasley is great and one of my favorite players but I preferred it when he was a second or third option. The receiver personnel just isn't as good.

But we're a running and defense team this year. I can live with that. Sure, it's not quite as fun, but we need to see more game time before we can decide how good or bad this team is.

Yeah, I can live with it, and, actually, I'd imagine a bit of a blue collar team like that would be rather fun as long as we're racking up the wins. Just seeing us gash opposing defences and wearing out opposing offences. I like what I'm seeing from our defence overall, and our offence looked rather good I thought.

 

[aikemirv]

Hated the one dump off in the redzone to Zeke when Dak still had time in the pocket. That was beyond irritating to say the least. Back on the fence a bit with Dak. He is not a playmaker with his arm for sure but may be able to get the job done - it just won't ever be pretty. I thought he made some nice throws from the pocket at times - especially the first down called back. I think that he can do it but he has to be willing to take risk and throw the ball down field - he also needs great protection as well. I don't think he is a quick defense reader where he has a good idea where he is going with the ball based on the defensive lineup either.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Not a knock on Dak at all,

Dak is who he is and he was back to being who he should have been last week, IMO we win that game IF Dak would have been more decisive on when to run and made afew more plays passing, our D is holding up well enough, FOR NOW(seatles bringing in aguy that is Cam and Eli together, can run and throw , will be a challenge in itself, although Seatle doesnt have a Saquan or Mcarfrey so we need to key Wilson both as a Rb and a QB.he accounts for nearly 60% of their production but we played him well late last season....this game Dak was running decisively and correct RPO where he pulled properly out and ran, and threw well when give a clean pocket BUT HE IS A BES DRIVER, HE WILL NEVER BE MUCH MORE THEN A TYPROD TAYLOR TYPE.. Not knocking on him but he will be close to a 200 yard passer his entire career and we have to decide can we win like this..The oline isn't right, I hope it will Gel but I watched closely and Dak didnt have much of real pocket at all , it was rare not to have any pone on that line pushed back at the snap...2016 he had all day long to throw and was better because of it , now Zeke cant get going in the middle and with more stacked boxes we need to throw more but the line is getting shoved back A Lot.. if we can get the guys all going up front run better especially up the middle, we will score enough to win but anyone expecting this to be the 29-34 point barrage of Chunk lays, this isn't the offense, not in scheme, play calling, QB or skillset..its not built that way..

To be honest, I think our defence should be fine next week. They'll probably get to Russell a few times. I think the star of the show next week, if we win, will be Zeke. Denver gashed them on the ground in week 1, and they're not known for being a good ground team. This led to Keenum being able to rip their defence apart for a good portion of the game. They're not the powerful defence they once were, and I think Zeke should be able to run right over those chaps.

 

[aikemirv]

There are just a lot of stupid people here. Ignorance

Jerry is right Dak has been the QB and as long as he’s here he’s going to continue to be the QB. Throws ropes. Doesn’t turn it over. Has star leadership. He was never throwing for 300 last night, they were never letting him.

Who was never letting him?

 

[HonoluluCowboy]

Exactly, and if "stats" people want to really get a proper view of the game, it's also important to keep these 2 points in mind. His rushing yards as I'd imagine that was a lot with how much he ran (which got the receivers open mind you), and the score of 20-13 (would've been 20-10 if Jarwin fell on the ball).

You keep throwing stats out the windows or disregard their importance.

Defensive coordinators get paid big money to scheme opposing offenses. Thus this dink and dunk , run my QB approach will only succeed against bad defenses. Even so he was 16/25 for 160 yards

Let’s see how effective this approach is @ Seattle.

Wake up and qui appogizng for a mediocre QB on a good day

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Dak did fine against a team i thought were average but turned out to be poor. The decision regarding Dak will be made at the end of the season. Only then can we decide if he is capable of getting the boys to the big dance at the end of the season. And that is all that matters in the end, can Dak take this team to a superbowl.
As an aside Kris Richard's work on defence is already bearing fruit.

It may be early, but I reckon that our defence is getting to the point where, provided that Dak just drives the bus, the defence should be able to carry us over the top. Green Bay's oline didn't exactly look dominant against Minnesota, for one thing. Their oline's got MASSIVE gaps in the interior, and we ripped the Giants' interior apart. The Jags did that to the Pats as well, and I think, again, that's where we'll have an advantage. As this defence continues to improve and develop, it will become a very dominant defence, which is undoubtedly important. Your defence has to be able to carry you in the postseason, and we're getting close to being able to do that defencively, I reckon.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

You keep throwing stats out the windows or disregard their importance.

Defensive coordinators get paid big money to scheme opposing offenses. Thus this dink and dunk , run my QB approach will only succeed against bad defenses. Even so he was 16/25 for 160 yards

Let’s see how effective this approach is @ Seattle.

Wake up and qui appogizng for a mediocre QB on a good day

I agree to an extent about what you're saying. Where I differ is that Dak also benefited from being allowed to run more, as I've said. This opened the receivers. As I said, I'm not looking for him to dominate the opponent from the standpoint of stats. As long as our defence continues to develop like it has and Zeke's able to ground and pound, we don't need Dak to be the stat king. We just need him to effectively drive the bus and run the ball himself to open up the receivers. If he does that, I think we can win a lot of games.

 

[DandyDon1722]

I wasn’t talking about now, because the post was in response to Seattle winning with Russell Wilson with defense.

I just realized my haD was written as a haS, so that pretty much caused confusion.

Hate that when it happens

 

[Jimbo69]

It may be early, but I reckon that our defence is getting to the point where, provided that Dak just drives the bus, the defence should be able to carry us over the top. Green Bay's oline didn't exactly look dominant against Minnesota, for one thing. Their oline's got MASSIVE gaps in the interior, and we ripped the Giants' interior apart. The Jags did that to the Pats as well, and I think, again, that's where we'll have an advantage. As this defence continues to improve and develop, it will become a very dominant defence, which is undoubtedly important. Your defence has to be able to carry you in the postseason, and we're getting close to being able to do that defencively, I reckon.[/QUOT

This defence may be getting better, but dak throwing sub 200 yd games aint winning the big one. The game has moved on from buddy ryan 's bears.

 

[pansophy]

So we just forget the abysmal performance last year too...got it.

So the obvious retort is 'so we just forget his record breaking rookie year...got it'. Neither makes a lot of sense. The question is what is changing. His rookie year Dak got to play from his strengths and played very well, minus say 3rd and long situations. Year 2 defenses started to clog the middle of the field, shutting down Witten, Beasley, and the running game -- Dak was forced to play to his weaknesses and struggled.

Year 3 then is about punishing defenses for clogging the middle of the field, which in my opinion is about Dak throwing 10-20 yard passes to the outside. This is arguably the weakest part of his game. The coaching staff also believes that more deep go routes will force defenses to play more honestly. It's a throw Dak has already shown he can make and apparently worked at hard this off season.

Clearly the offensive staff believes that Dak improving on a throw he can already do reasonably well is a better approach then relying on Dak improving his biggest weakness.

They showed the deep go route in the preseason and again last night. He also hit a couple of passes to the outside past 10 yards last night. If Dak can force the defense to play the whole field again then things will look a lot more like his rookie year.

I don't know if Dak will succeed or not, but I'm looking for change and improvement rather than proof that my prediction about Dak's failure or success is correct.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Fair enough, but I am intrigued to see if it improves as he gets better acquainted with his WRs.

 

[pansophy]

Fair enough, but I am intrigued to see if it improves as he gets better acquainted with his WRs.

Aren't we all...

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

c+

 

[Cowboysfandarin]

So the obvious retort is 'so we just forget his record breaking rookie year...got it'. Neither makes a lot of sense. The question is what is changing. His rookie year Dak got to play from his strengths and played very well, minus say 3rd and long situations. Year 2 defenses started to clog the middle of the field, shutting down Witten, Beasley, and the running game -- Dak was forced to play to his weaknesses and struggled.

Year 3 then is about punishing defenses for clogging the middle of the field, which in my opinion is about Dak throwing 10-20 yard passes to the outside. This is arguably the weakest part of his game. The coaching staff also believes that more deep go routes will force defenses to play more honestly. It's a throw Dak has already shown he can make and apparently worked at hard this off season.

Clearly the offensive staff believes that Dak improving on a throw he can already do reasonably well is a better approach then relying on Dak improving his biggest weakness.

They showed the deep go route in the preseason and again last night. He also hit a couple of passes to the outside past 10 yards last night. If Dak can force the defense to play the whole field again then things will look a lot more like his rookie year.

I don't know if Dak will succeed or not, but I'm looking for change and improvement rather than proof that my prediction about Dak's failure or success is correct.

With all due respect and my point since day one regarding Dak....All true things you mention here. You're describing the basic building blocks for designing a good NFL, QB Gotchay....All things a guy like Romo did naturally after sitting on the bench and coming in cold for his first playing time. See the difference? Dak has to work on a TRY and develop things a great NFL QB will just be born with having. Sure, many skills are developed, improved and so on, but some you either just have them or not. And Dak doesn't have them.

Areas he's lacking:
1. Does not sense pocket pressure well. He turns instinctual and runs outside the pocket when in reality the pocket is often just forming for him and all he needs to do is take a few steps either way or a step up.
2. He's makes his reads WAY too slow.
3. When moving about the pocket, he does not continue to read downfield. He doesn't feel the pocket, therefore he must concentrate on it and no longer reading the unfolding play
4. He's not accurate. I give him a 3-4 in just raw arm accuracy on a scale of 1-10
5. His arm is weak. Again a 3/4 on a scale of 1-10 in accuracy,
6. He cannot throw timing routes at all. This is a necessity for an NFL, QB, although he threw one perfect one Sunday night, but that was it.
7. He's not good at threading the needle or throwing receivers open. He needs clear separation. And when have all the pocket and reading issues stated above, not gonna happen. You will miss the open guys because you're too focused on what's in your face rather then checking through reads and continuously looking downfield.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't know what the exact percentage should be, but when you're assessing a player you generally take into account their full body of work--but with the more current data obviously weighed more heavily.

To be fair, you can't fully ignore 2016, but the further along in his career we go, the less weight it carries. That would be true if it was bad too.
Just common sense.

So something like:
50% current year
35% 2107
15% 2016

Then next year...just a stab:
45% current year
30% 2018
15% 2017
10% 2016

etc

 

[pansophy]

With all due respect and my point since day one regarding Dak....All true things you mention here. You're describing the basic building blocks for designing a good NFL, QB Gotchay....All things a guy like Romo did naturally after sitting on the bench and coming in cold for his first playing time. See the difference? Dak has to work on a TRY and develop things a great NFL QB will just be born with having. Sure, many skills are developed, improved and so on, but some you either just have them or not. And Dak doesn't have them.

Areas he's lacking:
1. Does not sense pocket pressure well. He turns instinctual and runs outside the pocket when in reality the pocket is often just forming for him and all he needs to do is take a few steps either way or a step up.
2. He's makes his reads WAY too slow.
3. When moving about the pocket, he does not continue to read downfield. He doesn't feel the pocket, therefore he must concentrate on it and no longer reading the unfolding play
4. He's not accurate. I give him a 3-4 in just raw arm accuracy on a scale of 1-10
5. His arm is weak. Again a 3/4 on a scale of 1-10 in accuracy,
6. He cannot throw timing routes at all. This is a necessity for an NFL, QB, although he threw one perfect one Sunday night, but that was it.
7. He's not good at threading the needle or throwing receivers open. He needs clear separation. And when have all the pocket and reading issues stated above, not gonna happen. You will miss the open guys because you're too focused on what's in your face rather then checking through reads and continuously looking downfield.

I was a Romo fan before he was even starting. Really sad to see his story end the way it did. But the grief Romo got for carrying this team is the lens that Dak is under now. Cowboy fans are spoiled and I've never seen another fan base believe it's needs a HOF player at every position to win. When the defense was sucking people would complain Ware wasn't doing enough so it goes on both sides of the ball.

I have serious concerns about Dak as a franchise QB and largely agree with your assessment. He also has strengths that NFL starter quality. My belief is that we don't need a HOF QB to win and that if the Giants won two Super Bowls with Eli we should be able to win with Dak if he can improve on some of his most glaring weaknesses.

So that's all I'm looking for -- can his biggest weaknesses be improved enough to allow his strengths to be enough to win. We should be happy we get to go through this now before we have paid him big money. If he doesn't get better we will move on no matter what the Jones are saying now.